Winning against undergeared people is not rewarding

[Talen]

Having free pvp gear would cut down on the amount of time I'd play WoW - with no punishment for being inactive I would probably not play as much.

There are other ways to reward time in game and PvP success that don't involve giving you a gear advantage.

EJL

[Dcruize]

There are other ways to reward time in game and PvP success that don't involve giving you a gear advantage.

EJL

Any suggestions? There's already no incentive to enter normal BGs and honor is about to become a pointless currency when 5.2 hits and people already have full malevolent.

[Talen]

Any suggestions? There's already no incentive to enter normal BGs and honor is about to become a pointless currency when 5.2 hits and people already have full malevolent.

What do players in WoW go out of their way for?

Pets. Titles. Mounts. Vanity items. I saw a good suggestion on another thread - custom spell animations.
Instead of actual gear, PvP could reward Transmog Gear.
Tabards. Heirlooms and so on.

You also point out many have full Malevolent....so if it is just about the gear, why are they still playing? Because simply winning, being seen as the best is also important to some.

EJL

[scvd]

Bring back Wrath.

[Dcruize]

What do players in WoW go out of their way for?

Pets. Titles. Mounts. Vanity items. I saw a good suggestion on another thread - custom spell animations.
Instead of actual gear, PvP could reward Transmog Gear.
Tabards. Heirlooms and so on.

You also point out many have full Malevolent....so if it is just about the gear, why are they still playing? Because simply winning, being seen as the best is also important to some.

EJL

I'd be happy to see what you suggested being implemented. As for why the full malevolent people are still playing, they're mostly not. On the rare occasion I queue into a normal BG I'm normally the highest health player by about 40k, despite being a rogue. I really can't remember the last time I saw a well geared player on my team.

[Deleted]

Any suggestions? There's already no incentive to enter normal BGs and honor is about to become a pointless currency when 5.2 hits and people already have full malevolent.

Yeah, I have a suggestion which works in every other competitive game in existence: practice. Achievements and learning to play an alt is another two you can add to Talen's list. Another suggestion is play a different game since WoW evolves too much around gear. A game which remains fun when you play it no matter where you are in progression. Some people close to me thoroughly enjoy Wordfeud. YMMV.

[Conscious]

Perhaps the high aboves or GC himself is making the $$ roll out of your bank by making you play longer, I just dont understand.

People are just realizing this now?

This entire expansion is a case study on how to drag out the life of your content to maximize $$$

[Deleted]

People are just realizing this now?

This entire expansion is a case study on how to drag out the life of your content to maximize $$$

It still amazes me just how many Wow players still cant see this / dont see this / refuse to see this...

[pkm]

It still amazes me just how many Wow players still cant see this / dont see this / refuse to see this...

It's because they are blinded by the game they don't see the bads of it

[Deleted]

It's because they are blinded by the game they don't see the bads of it

For me I can say it was an interesting learning experience, and a stupid one due to the utter waste of time. I also knew beforehand I would get too much involved in it. I played MtG and it took me a while to see why type II was the cash cow while I rusted and switched to type I. That's why every time I read about WoW I said "won't play it". While I played every Warcraft game before WoW and managed to stay away from it until WotLK I did eventually start to play it. The seas of time you get when you quit or basically only log in once a week to chat a bit and play 1 (one) "game". Immense.

[Flaks]

Winning against undergeared people doesn't give a reward (dopamine) because you know there was no skill involved. It is like beating the shit out of your innocent wife, it is like using cheat codes in a single player game. It is like beating an 8 year old kid in chess. There is literally no honor in doing this, and it further underlines how pointless the game is.

Finally another visionary who gets it. It was a bliss reading your post.

Yup it is. I remember beta 5.0 where you could for free get a complete set of PvP gear. Its also something which is easily possible in GW2.

I also 100% agree with everything Talen said. And just to reiterate what you were saying: There is literally no honor in doing this, and it further underlines the current community's mindset that is so opposed to this.

[Omaski]

Right now PvP is sort of a hierarchy; in arenas(2s) from 1-1300 rating class is the deciding factor; from 1300-2000 gear is the deciding factor; and 2000+ skill is king. Now i know this just based of my perspective as a Ret Pally who hasn't gotten past 1300 rating. I run with a hunter and basically we burst on the more vulnerable enemy class while i'm trying my best to survive after that initial burst. But Imho, yes Ret needs some help in arenas and rbg's but im having fun regardless of how i perform. I know the limitations of my class and im happy as long as i know i did everything i could in a given situation, most classes can counter Pallies and thats unavoidable, but i dont let that chase me away from playing my favorite class since mid-tbc

[meekus]

"Mists of Pandaria Season 2 Malevolent Gladiator's PvP Gear can now be purchased with Honor Points instead of Conquest Points, including weapons.

All newly purchased Season 2 Malevolent gear, weapons and shields will have an item level of 476 (was 483). Existing Malevolent items are unaffected."

If you're undergeared now, you'll continue to be undergeared in the new season! Upgraded 483 (491) vs. 476 is a big deal.

[Drakesong]

The problem is, is gear is normalized, people wouldn't have to grind for it. If people don't have to grind and don't feel rewarded for the items they get, they won't find a reason to join BGs and Arenas.
Sadly WoW is based around the constant need to get rewards, rather than a "fun experience".

[ViciousManno]

*Fixed that for you

I'm pretty sure if you put rank#1 pvpers with full contenders set into an arena with shitty/okay players with full Malevolent the more skilled players would easily win.

Whilst this argument is valid with player of equal shitness, the REALLY skilled always come out on top.

if you put any top player against a bad player regardless of the gear the better player wins, your argument is relatively useless.(disclaimer: in arena with heals)

The point is more if you put a good player in malevolent fully upgraded gear against a rank 1 player the rank 1 player loses. you simply cant keep up with the damage.

I am a 2.2k+ player and i was in full contender gear getting destroyed by people who would use sweeping strikes against me(as one target) and they were in upgraded dreadful with 1-2 pieces of malevolent. it wasnt that i couldnt keep my cc chain on them, it was the fact that id get rng critted for 3/4 of my hp in single hits.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Questing/leveling is pve. Pve at it's core is grinding. Pvp isn't.

Just because people have always had to grind pvp gear doesn't make that grind ok in any way. I've done it every single season since s2 and I know that the game is a helluva lot more fun when all parties are equally geared. You know you're beating someone on your own merits or that someone is just flat out better than you instead of "OMG QQQQQ YOU HAS T2 WEAPUNZ".

Reducing/removing he gear discrepancy would also more clearly highlight class imbalances (since Blizzard seems to be blind to them when people are still gearing up) allowing Blizzard to at least attempt to bring a semblance of balance to the game (inb4 "lol pvp never has been or will be balanced". The game was a more balanced in s6 and s7 then it ever was or has been since).

If you like equal gear for all players, go play a game with that feature. Instead of trying to change a game to suit you, find a game that already suits you, or change to suit that game.

[Akaviri]

I agree... .-. Some of us just don't either enjoy participating in PvP as much as the others... And I just really don't like how they can judge someone by how geared they are? It's alright, I think, to just go through the game without having to devote as much to PvP like some others. And certainly, not that I've done it, but I don't think beating an unfortunately-undergeared player is very rewarding or cool.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I agree... .-. Some of us just don't either enjoy participating in PvP as much as the others... And I just really don't like how they can judge someone by how geared they are? It's alright, I think, to just go through the game without having to devote as much to PvP like some others. And certainly, not that I've done it, but I don't think beating an unfortunately-undergeared player is very rewarding or cool.

I don't think the debate is actually whether beating lesser geared players is actually fun or cool. Its more some people trying to justify changing to game to suit their wants. (You know, instead of finding a game more appropriate to what they want) And the other side thinks people should be rewarded for time and effort spent with gear. So, someone who has played all season should have better gear than someone who had just started.

This is not a game you "beat." In my opinion, the whole game is a grind, you grind for gear, rating, reputation whatever else you want. You grind down bosses, other players, NPCS, whatever it is needed.Taking the grind out of a game that has always been grind/gear centric is just wrong. Again, if you love the "equal gear at all times" feature, play a game with it. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else to play. Blizzard does not limit you and allow other more time.

If anything, they should fix/punish people who cheat and bot, and perhaps make the difference in gear item levels a bit less harsh. Has anyone actually done the math to see if they differences are actually bigger? Or if it jusst seems that way because the numbers are that much bigger?

[Akaviri]

Haha, no, I know about not beating WoW! ^^ c: I meant, defeating another playing, not the game itself, by any means!

And, I understand, though.... I don't really agree with 'all-equal-gearing', I think it makes the game more interesting to try and work harder to get better gear and just become a better player altogether. I was just speaking for those who are judged by their gear, like, have a label put on them, like they're not a good player, y'know? Like, it isn't all about PvPing.

[Nicola]

5.2 changes: you earn more conquest points if you started late, wintraders and high rated players will still roll their faces over you due gear differences. Muaha.

It's nice when they think they solved a problem but they didn't really solve the problem.