Two questions about Holy

[Deleted]

So I've been playing my Holy Paladin as a twink for some time in 10man and LFR and after reading some guides and looking at some logs I still have two questions:

1.) I want to use the cluster function Vuhdo has and need to know what the minimal and what the optimal amount of targets is on which I should use Holy Radiance. Normally I just use it on some melee whenever I feel like it but I think it's often not even worth casting
2.) I've seen some high-ranked logs in which Eternal Flame is the spell with the highest amount of healing. I guess they do this by keeping the HoT up on everyone on the raid. So - is it worth it to use the spell with 1 Holy Power to keep the HoT up? I don't see it healing THAT much if I only use it with 3 all the time

I hope someone can answer these. Thanks.

[Kerfax]

1. I tend to keep my cluster on 3+. Especially on ten man, if you can get that many people, a cast is usually worth it.

2. The way that is done is by using the PvP 4 Piece bonus in conjunction with EF/DP. Its done by keeping 3 HP EFs up on the raid and building HP through use of HS, CS, and HR.

[Xs]

2. The way that is done is by using the PvP 4 Piece bonus in conjunction with EF/DP. Its done by keeping 3 HP EFs up on the raid and building HP through use of HS, CS, and HR.

Or the tier 4 piece, and in either case you want to be using 3HP for the hot as you gain a substantially increased chance to proc divine purpose (and with the PvP set, obviously you want to)

[Kurzior]

For HR, I typically try to get 4 targets. 3 is just barely worth it, but its more efficient to just single heal those 3 targets assuming they aren't going to die because of the slower healing. That said, our 10-man runs somewhat melee heavy most of the time, so hitting 4 targets is easier for me.

As far as EF goes, the catch is that EF's scaling with HP is purely linear. Outside of divine purpose proc chance and the pvp 4-set, there is no difference in potential healing if you cast a single 3xEF or three 1xEF's. The difference comes from how much overhealing you do and whether or not the mastery shield is consumed. In the 1xEF case, you generate 3 small shields that (on most fights) have a larger chance to be fully absorbed giving you more effective healing. However, in the 3xEF case, you generate 1 large shield that may waste a substantial amount of effective healing if the target doesn't take damage.

The point here is that you have to tailor your healing to the fight and where and how much damage is going out. Forcing yourself to always wait for a 3xEF means you may have to choose between a target who isn't taking damage to avoid overwriting another EF HoT, or casting on a target who is taking damage but overwriting an existing HoT. If you can predicit when heavy damage is going to come (which you can on most fights), you can stock up HP to prepare for the needed big healing. Otherwise, you can spend HP more freely to constantly generate smaller amounts of healing that will often result in higher effective healing.

Edit: Worth noting that with divine purpose, you still usually want to wait for 3xEF for the better proc chance. I typically run Holy Avenger so DP is not a factor in my heal choice.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the answers. They helped a lot.

Worth noting that with divine purpose, you still usually want to wait for 3xEF for the better proc chance. I typically run Holy Avenger so DP is not a factor in my heal choice.

That reminds me - I'm also running with Holy Avenger since RNG usually hates me and was wondering what I should cast when it's active.
Usually I wait until Holy Shock is off cd, activate Avenging Wrath, activate Holy Avenger and start using Holy Shock -> LoD -> HR -> LoD. Then, since I don't have the 4pc bonus I guess, Shock is not ready and i usually cast another Holy Radiance. And that's what I repeat until Avenger is gone.
Is that the correct way to do it? Sometimes it feels as if I could be healing so much more if I timed this cooldown better.

[Xs]

All depends on what the fight requires, if you want to play like a Disc Priest you can try to pre-hot the raid before heavy damage, for that its best to go into melee and do HS > HP > CS > HP > HS > etc. I couldn't give you examples as I'm purely a DP user

I would say though, popping wings is probably not worth it, you're already doing crazy throughput so it may well be better suited to chain together, rather than popping them together. If you really want to pop 2 CDs, you'll want to use DF as it'll increase the amount of HP Gen abilities you can use

[Kurzior]

That reminds me - I'm also running with Holy Avenger since RNG usually hates me and was wondering what I should cast when it's active.
Usually I wait until Holy Shock is off cd, activate Avenging Wrath, activate Holy Avenger and start using Holy Shock -> LoD -> HR -> LoD. Then, since I don't have the 4pc bonus I guess, Shock is not ready and i usually cast another Holy Radiance. And that's what I repeat until Avenger is gone.
Is that the correct way to do it? Sometimes it feels as if I could be healing so much more if I timed this cooldown better.

That rotation should work fine. I'm running the 4-set now, so I can pretty easily rotate between HS/HR/LoD with no downtime. Before the 4-set, the best you can do with holy avenger up is to build up to 2HP, cast HA, then go into the HS -> LoD -> HR rotation. During HA, you want to try as much as possible to only cast HR with Infusion of Light. Saving 2 HP before HA starts allows you to cast 3xLoD then 2xLoD if you don't get an infusion proc, rather than casting HR without Infusion, because that likely will cause an overlap with your next HS and cost you 3 holy power. The reason being the with no 4-set, you can just barely get 4 HS out during avenger, but if you overlap a long-cast HR when HS is off cd, you lose the 4th HS.

Xs also brings a good point. Holy Avenger and Divine Favor stack incredibly well because you will get more HR casts off during HA and HR/HS (which are already buffed from HA) will have even higher crit chance. Avenging Wrath works well too, but you're usually better off either chaining AW after HA has ended if you need it, or saving it for the next high damage phase.

[Deleted]

Okay thanks. It's kind of strange having cooldowns to directly increase my healing since I'm playing a disc as a main.
I'll try using what you said. Thanks again.

[Theholypally]

Don't bother with the pvp 4 pc anymore, it's not worth using since the nerf.

[Simulacrum]

Don't bother with the pvp 4 pc anymore, it's not worth using since the nerf.

Don't post drivel like this. 4 pvp pieces are by far the best items available to holy paladins before 4p pve becomes available.

[monikasun88]

Don't post drivel like this. 4 pvp pieces are by far the best items available to holy paladins before 4p pve becomes available.

Rather than farming conquest points for pve like many have done before the nerf, your time would be better spent doing LFR and dailies for the valor gear although with the new patch that too may become obsolete soon. Unless they buff T15 set bonuses I'll probably be sticking with 4 set T14 so the LFR tier gear is still fine.