Why are the orcs and draenei still at war?

[Trassk]

Okacz's post

This isn't an argument on your or anyone elses opinion of Cairne and what you think happened there involving Garrosh. The fact stand that Cairne's blood is on Garrosh's hand, and Vol'jin see's this as one of the reasons to hate him.

Oh, and people still trying to claim that the Garrosh in cata was a different Garrosh to the one in mists, why is you you claim its a different kind of character when all I see is the same bastard who dragged the horde downhill. Its like you wanted to ignore the signs that were so obvious and suddenly its a surprise Garrosh turned out this way? Seriously?

[Granyala]

Already been done, and in game format: Command and Conquer! Basically without the Nazi threat, it became the Western nations vs Stalin.

Aaah the good old times. Boy was I addicted to that game

If someone back then had the chance to kill Hitler and attempted it (and there were actually people who tried to kill him) would you consider that immoral?

I would have been one of them. And don't insult me.

Its like you wanted to ignore the signs that were so obvious and suddenly its a surprise Garrosh turned out this way? Seriously?

That eeriely reminds me of the German population back before WW2... :X

[Deleted]

I would have been one of them. And don't insult me.

What insult?

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 11:58 PM ----------

Oh, and people still trying to claim that the Garrosh in cata was a different Garrosh to the one in mists, why is you you claim its a different kind of character when all I see is the same bastard who dragged the horde downhill. Its like you wanted to ignore the signs that were so obvious and suddenly its a surprise Garrosh turned out this way? Seriously?

What did Garrosh do in Cataclysm, that came even remotely close to turning his own people into Sha?

[Combatbutler]

That eeriely reminds me of the German population back before WW2... :X

Desperate people do really stupid things they will regret later on, that is unfortunately true for every last species real, or fictional.

[Granyala]

Desperate people do really stupid things they will regret later on, that is unfortunately true for every last species real, or fictional.

Put a human being under enough pressure and it will break and do anything. Sad, but true.

[Combatbutler]

But a human being under enough pressure and it will break and do anything. Sad, but true.

Indeed but the same can be said about all the fictional races in wow wouldn't you agree?

[Mormolyce]

This thread has been Godwinned already?

[Granyala]

Indeed but the same can be said about all the fictional races in wow wouldn't you agree?

That very much depends. If they want to design a race you as a human can relate to, they have to give them human like minds.
Not all fictional races have to be like that. The Draenei for instance still managed to hold on to their Ideals, even after all they've gone through.
Maybe thats why so many can't really relate to them that well. Their faith and calamity sort of feels artificial and unreal at times.

[Deleted]

This thread has been Godwinned already?

It was Godwinned in the first post.

[Granyala]

Before or after he went all Holocausting and started his madness?

Stauffenberg tried to assassinate Hitler 1944. That would be after he started the holocaust.

[Combatbutler]

That very much depends. If they want to design a race you as a human can relate to, they have to give them human like minds.
Not all fictional races have to be like that. The Draenei for instance still managed to hold on to their Ideals, even after all they've gone through.
Maybe thats why so many can't really relate to them that well. Their faith and calamity sort of feels artificial and unreal at times.

That is not quite true, take Velens actions for example he only acted if he thought it would benefit the army of the light and as such condemned thousands if not millions to death with his decisions, he regrets them but continues to move on. The Draenei were slaughtering refugees had Anduin not intervened it would have been a massacre, sure their hand was forced but their reactions are somewhat similar to humans.

[Deleted]

Before or after he went all Holocausting and started his madness?

After, otherwise you wouldn't have much of a justification for doing it, unless you could see into the future.

[Granyala]

That is not quite true, take Velens actions for example he only acted if he thought it would benefit the army of the light and as such condemned thousands if not millions to death with his decisions, he regrets them but continues to move on.

I understood it that he was lost in the pathways of time, having a hard time to discern what was real and what not and thus out of sync with what happened in the here and now. Quite fitting that a human reminded him ans immortal being. Almost like "Hey we only live 80yeas.. do something NOW!". ^^

The Draenei were slaughtering refugees had Anduin not intervened it would have been a massacre, sure their hand was forced but their reactions are somewhat similar to humans.

They attacked (and killed?) one of us first. After that it basically was "law of the mob".

[mistuhbull]

The reason why they do it is what's important. Vol'jin threatened to kill Garrosh, because he was taking the Horde down a path Vol'jin didn't want to see the Horde on. Saurfang threatened Garrosh for the same reason back in Northrend. Garrosh had Vol'jin "observed" by one of his assassins, who then later attempted to kill him, because Vol'jin was shocked at what abhorrent Mogu magic Garrosh intended to use.

Assassination in itself isn't bad. It's a form of eliminating someone. It depends on why you want to do that. Is it someone who's standing in your way and threatens your position of power or is it someone, who's a threat to your, and his own, people.

Garrosh is a tyrant and a dictator. He doesn't tolerate it when people question him, his goals and his methods. It's probably easy and efficient to accuse everyone, who questions you, of being a traitor. Kind of reminds me of this one. http://www.elise.com/quotes/hermann_...of_the_leaders

so just to get it clear;

Vol'jin threatening to kill someone for trying to take the Horde in a direction he disagrees with: Ok, peachy keen, best dude eva
Garrosh threatening to kill someone for trying to take the Horde in a direction he disagrees with: WTF FACIST EVIL DOUCHE BAG

[Organoth]

The Dranei are 100% to blame for the "war" in Warcraft. They lead the Burning Legion to the Orc home world, I refuse to call it Draenor because it is only called that because of the Dranei. Had the Dranei not shown up the Orcs would never have been corrupted, never used to build the Dark Portal and never would have step foot on Azeroth. If they want to make a real, legit, expansion it should be one where everyone teams up to erase the Dranei from existence. If you don't race switch by the end of the xpac your character is destroyed.

[Deleted]

so just to get it clear;

Vol'jin threatening to kill someone for trying to take the Horde in a direction the entire Horde disagrees with: Ok, peachy keen, best dude eva
Garrosh threatening to kill someone for trying to take the Horde in a direction he disagrees with: WTF FACIST EVIL DOUCHE BAG

Fixed that for ya.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 04:44 AM ----------

The Dranei are 100% to blame for the "war" in Warcraft. They lead the Burning Legion to the Orc home world, I refuse to call it Draenor because it is only called that because of the Dranei. Had the Dranei not shown up the Orcs would never have been corrupted, never used to build the Dark Portal and never would have step foot on Azeroth. If they want to make a real, legit, expansion it should be one where everyone teams up to erase the Dranei from existence. If you don't race switch by the end of the xpac your character is destroyed.

Only after we have eradicated the entirety of the Horde.

[mistuhbull]

Fixed that for ya.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 04:44 AM ----------



Only after we have eradicated the entirety of the Horde.

Someone missed the part where the Orcs (who make up the vast vast vast bulk of the Horde) LOVE Garrosh (especially when Vol'jin made his first threat and became everyone's wet dream)

[Deleted]

Someone missed the part where the Orcs (who make up the vast vast vast bulk of the Horde) LOVE Garrosh (especially when Vol'jin made his first threat and became everyone's wet dream)

Not every orc, only a tiny minority.

[mistuhbull]

Not every orc, only a tiny minority.

excuse me? it's a tiny minority of Orcs that are against Garrosh.

The Orcs, especially when Vol'jin made his first threats, love Garrosh. He is a hero to them, the son of Grom and the man who won the Northrend campaign for them

Hellscream's ascension has been applauded by most orcs, who feel that his brash warrior instincts and unwillingness to negotiate for needed resources are more in tune with the true orc way. While Garrosh appreciates public recognition, even relishes the acceptance amongst these green-skinned orcs, he has little time or patience for ostentatious displays of leadership

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2629898

[Deleted]

He is a hero to them, the son of Grom and the man who won the Northrend campaign for them

You mean the one who did nothing but insult and attack the Alliance King on every opportunity while Saurfang did all the work on his own?
If anyone deserves credit for Horde's Northrend compaign then that's Saurfang alone, no one else.