New character models..

[Veyne]

Awesome thanks.

So is there a way to compare a bare model of the current troll to the "new" troll model so we can see the improvements?

Also could this model be adjusted into a "decent" player model?

It already is a decent player model.

You'd be surprised just how few polygons go into even some of the biggest, newest games. A huge chunk of what makes games look nice today comes from the quality of the texture, normal, specular, etc... mapping put on those models.

World of Warcraft doesn't need radically different models.

[Yig]

They hire people who have very specific abilities and who lend them self well overall to the team. It takes a specific knowledge of form and composition and color theory, all of which can be trained if a person has potential.

Blizzard is constantly on the lookout for new artists that have this potential or that already have it.

The mistake you people make who ask this question is in thinking just anyone who has talent with professional quality art is capable of working on the WOW art team. It's not that simple. You may think just because your friend in high school drew really cool pictures that he can get a job doing anything he wants and become a famous artist, but the actual world doesn't work that way.

You're basically saying Blizzard should change it's standards because you don't want to wait a year for something.

[Deleted]

It already is a decent player model.

You'd be surprised just how few polygons go into even some of the biggest, newest games. A huge chunk of what makes games look nice today comes from the quality of the texture, normal, specular, etc... mapping put on those models.

World of Warcraft doesn't need radically different models.

Yeah except WoW doesn't support normals mapping, cavity maps, emission blabla, or really anything beyond diffuse maps. Unless I'm remembering wrong it doesn't even use specular maps, so the geometry has to work twice as hard.

Agree they don't need radically different models, and the low res stuff is what gives the art style a lot of its charm, but stuff like humans not even having wrists, 4 sided hilts, 6 sided wheels etc is really painful to see.

[Yig]

Basically, to work with Blizzard it's good to have a talent with minimalism. You have to make a texture or model or design that looks good at both Ultra and Low quality settings. Blizzard has a very unique approach to working on low quality art settings that still have visual appeal. A lot of professional artists cannot do minimalism, they are used to hiding their weakness with form by covering it up intricate details or they simply aren't great at describing shape with very simple lines.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 03:19 PM ----------

Yeah except WoW doesn't support normals mapping, cavity maps, emission blabla, or really anything beyond diffuse maps. Unless I'm remembering wrong it doesn't even use specular maps, so the geometry has to work twice as hard.

Agree they don't need radically different models, and the low res stuff is what gives the art style a lot of its charm, but stuff like humans not even having wrists, 4 sided hilts, 6 sided wheels etc is really painful to see.

Some of that's true, but they don't lack wrists because of limitations. That's part of the beefcake neanderthal style of their model.

[Paladin885]

Could give a F about models, I care about gameplay and nothing more and yes I do agree they are slow as hell for a billionaire dollar company don't get me wrong on that.

blizzard has always been about quality over quantity. Just look at some of the things they "rushed" because of public demand... its crap compared to everything else in their library.

[Deleted]

Some of that's true, but they don't lack wrists because of limitations. That's part of the beefcake neanderthal style of their model.

Don't agree on that detail at all, it's like the Orc casting animation I mentioned back there. It's difficult if at all possible to rationalise that as anything but a combination of bad rigging and bad topology. Backwards thumbs on other models is another example, or male humans having no face available that doesn't look mentally ill. People understand this stuff a ton better than they did when the models were made and the textures were painted, which was a time when let's just be completely honest - low poly chic or otherwise, the industry was overall pretty shit at making models. No shame in it, tech got better, we got better at using it due to practise.

[Florena]

Blizzard has a point when they say any change they make to the current models could result in fan backlash, so they're taking their time, and ensuring they do it right, while focusing most of their art resources on new content. I think it's fine, though I do look forward to the new models when they're ready.

[Edds]

Awesome thanks.

So is there a way to compare a bare model of the current troll to the "new" troll model so we can see the improvements?

Also could this model be adjusted into a "decent" player model?

http://i.imgur.com/tPiJs.png - most of the armor removed
who knows. its not even close to pandaren quality

[SunspotAnims]

I myself am pretty convinced that the new character models will all be released in the next expansion, but whether sooner or later, I don't really care. Of course, I'm greatly anticipating the release of them, but I could go on without them.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 04:43 PM ----------

Looks to me like this is them hinting at trolls maybe becoming the first updated models, and this would make me want to play trolls and enjoy it.

I don't think I understand the logic behind stuff like this. That's a boss model for troll bossfight. Modelling that troll, or any of the new troll models coming in 5.2, probably has little to no relation to modelling the new troll player models. Sure, the new models will likely look like her, but that's probably because trolls are prone to looking like other trolls (of the same type).

[Yig]

Don't agree on that detail at all, it's like the Orc casting animation I mentioned back there. It's difficult if at all possible to rationalise that as anything but a combination of bad rigging and bad topology. Backwards thumbs on other models is another example, or male humans having no face available that doesn't look mentally ill. People understand this stuff a ton better than they did when the models were made and the textures were painted, which was a time when let's just be completely honest - low poly chic or otherwise, the industry was overall pretty shit at making models. No shame in it, tech got better, we got better at using it due to practise.

I think the meaty wrists are a stylistic choice. You see the same style in some of the art from Samwise and the Sons of the Storm. Even the MOP Cinematic human barely has a hint of any wrists.

One of the first things new Blizzard artists are coached on is to make hands and feet oversized as well as shoulders, and I've always assumed the wrists were a side effect of that stylized choice. I happen to have warmed up to it myself in the last 8 years and I think people are going to be disappointed when the same thing is carried over to the new character models. I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong, but I think it's part of the look. I've always wondered how much of Justin Thavirat's WOW art is made to look like the game or if his art style was literally what led to how the vanilla character models look, because his art looks more like the game come to life than any of the Sons of the Storm to me (he is not one of the sons btw) and he was the art director before Chris Robinson.

But here you can see Samwise art and MOP cinematic concept art where the wrists are all but nonexistent.

http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/images...amwise124c.jpg

http://media.blizzard.com/wow/media/...k-18-large.jpg

Granted there is a subtle slope for the wrist in the cinematic concept. I hope the new model looks as close to that as humanely possible.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 07:26 PM ----------

Blizzard has a point when they say any change they make to the current models could result in fan backlash, so they're taking their time, and ensuring they do it right, while focusing most of their art resources on new content. I think it's fine, though I do look forward to the new models when they're ready.

I think people would be surprised how much of the art team resources actually are on this project. Doing just one race takes them around a year for an expansion, and this project is several times more extensive than a single race. In less than a year we already know they have worked on three of the races.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 07:30 PM ----------

http://i.imgur.com/tPiJs.png - most of the armor removed
who knows. its not even close to pandaren quality

Indeed, people I think based on the feedback this troll female got are going to be absolutely blown away for the most part when these models finally are seen if they think a model edit of this detail is so great looking. I think it looks fantastic for what it is, but I actually like a lot about the original character models in a charming paper doll sort of way. Their animations and movement make up for their simplistic and angular details in my opinion. We also had a blue confirm that this female troll really isn't indicative of the model updates at all beyond the obvious similarities in design.

There will always be people who can't stand some detail they fixate on as a change, a lip too thick, eyelashes too long, lipstick off color, feet too fat, but overall the level of quality we are being led to believe is coming is going to kind of blow this female troll out of the water if they really are close to the Pandaren or Goblins overall.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 07:32 PM ----------

I don't think I understand the logic behind stuff like this. That's a boss model for troll bossfight. Modelling that troll, or any of the new troll models coming in 5.2, probably has little to no relation to modelling the new troll player models. Sure, the new models will likely look like her, but that's probably because trolls are prone to looking like other trolls (of the same type).

I completely agree and think it's a tad silly the way people act like Blizzard needs to "test" the waters. A lot of WOW's artists are on the team because they were already obsessed with making Warcraft art. They know what they are doing just fine, thank you. People cite the worgen female as if it changes precedent but it was an awkward project to approach in the first place. Elves and orcs and trolls and dwarves are something these guys could do in their sleep, all day, all night, for years.

[Deleted]

@Yig - Yeah all the stylisation is a lot of give and take, oversized hands and feet is a pretty commonplace deal with character design for a bunch of artistic and mechanical reasons, glancing briefly over signature links I know I'm preaching to the choir. Obviously it often backfires (Streetfighter 4 characters how you doin), but yeah playing with proportions is kinda fun and often makes or breaks the look of a project. I just often wonder how much of it really is intentional, it sure ain't all. I can't deal with anything on my feet ingame except the newer plate boot model brought in for Wrath for those exact reasons. I still think the human male faces for example are a case of questionable judgment/execution, and there are several others, but everyone has their own take on such things.

We'll see how they handle things eventually, probably, but given the limitations of the SC2 engine and the amount of shit onscreen at times they are definitely fairly constrained in what they can actually do.

[Deleted]

a) It WON'T be the feature of the next expansion, I can 100% guarantee this. New class, race, zones, etc is the selling point for expansions.
b) It WILL be staggered over time. It's the perfect business decision, release a new model each patch and watch the race / faction changes increase. I'm pretty sure we will see these playable Troll models, and an Alliance race (I think they said Dwarves were finished) in 4.2, 4.3 at the latest.

[Kanadei]

Yeah, the best racing game of all time has an item that automatically seeks out the player in first place and throws them off the track. /sarcasm

Please.

Kids, kids. The best racing game of all time was Need for Speed: Underground 2.

Don't be naive.

[Deleted]

Kids, kids. The best racing game of all time was Need for Speed: Underground 2.

Don't be naive.

Wacky Wheels, dude.

[Deleted]

Well there is a good chance the new Orc models will look like the Cataclysm Thrall model which was excellently done aside from the walk.

No, he looks like a monkey now. Old Thrall looked way better.

[Wildmoon]

I just want new NE male model so bad. I want more muscular body like Malfurion model. NE males were described to be muscular in lore and all artworks showed that. Malfurion model's body is perfect.

[Adam Jensen]

I just want new NE male model so bad. I want more muscular body like Malfurion model. NE males were described to be muscular in lore and all artworks showed that. Malfurion model's body is perfect.

Male night elves wouldn't be so bad if they didn't look like they are trying to take a dump whenever they are casting.

[Philosopino]

Don't be so harsh on the OP, personally I'd like it if I enjoy my character and frankly seeing the same old guy for years takes out some of his Flavour and compared to goblins and worgens they look pretty bland and I don't really want to be a goblin or worgen. But I only really cared about it in cataclysm when there was nothing for your character to do but explore and slightly RP as you explore. Other than that the characters do looks decent.

[Florena]

Wacky Wheels, dude.

OMG I remember that game!

[mistuhbull]

Kids, kids. The best racing game of all time was Need for Speed: Underground 2.

Don't be naive.

Midnight Club 3: Dub Edition.

Why? Motorcycles