[Ret] T15 Set Bonuses

[Riptide]

Not to mention the huge deficit between a normal templar's verdict and the holy proc one.

I bet this was a knee-jerk reaction to ret paladin QQ, which just says how out-of-touch blizzard is with the ret community. Notice how they only pick the morons to respond to.

This will make our rotation even more boring anyways because it doesn't scale with the 2pc at all and exo-weaving for the TV procs isn't going to be a thing anymore and I was looking forward to that thing.

Not to mention how horribly inconsistent and irresponsible making an aoe ability single target again. I was really hoping that this nonsense was a relic of wotlk and was happy to see it go.

You stupid whiny ret paladins don't know a major buff when you see one. This 4set bonus was absolutely amazing and fun and now its awful. There is no way a lightning bolt is ever going to reach the damage of a triple-dipping 275% weapon damage templar's verdict.

Looking forward to seeing it proc and attempting to lay on an exo before obliterating my target with pure holy energy was a very fun prospect indeed, and you people ruined it. I hate you all very much and hope you continue to suffer.

Quit whining and tweet GC or post on the ptr set bonus thread. This isn't a place to discuss your feelings on other players, especially based on your own assumptions. You're doing no service to this thread or community.

Perhaps they listened to people complain about the set bonuses not affecting AE and deterring it even more. You would be blind to not see that as a legitimate concern. Just because they changed it to include AE, doesn't mean the way they implemented it was what those had in mind.

If you want something changed it's easy. Anytime you have an issue just tweet GC and at the very least I'm sure he'll read it. If he reads a similar idea and the positives and negatives to those ideas often enough, it's going to warrant a discussion and possible get it changed to how you want.

If all you want to do is whine about what isn't, was or could be. Yet do nothing to change it or help initiate a change. You're part of the reason things are the way they are.

[silverhatred]

If all you want to do is whine about what isn't, was or could be. Yet do nothing to change it or help initiate a change. You're part of the reason things are the way they are.

Implying I can do anything to initiate a change.

[torterra275]

Oh look, more stuff from Ghostcrawler:

Paladin
- Sword of Light now reads +30% Word of Glory and +100% Flash of Light. We wanted to reward Flash of Light more, because it's harder and riskier to use.
- For Divine Storm, several years ago, we got on this kick that thou shalt not use AE in single target fights. Ret paladins (Divine Storm) and warriors (Whirlwind) were particularly affected (and perhaps bummed out by it). The game has changed a lot since that time and now we have cleaving Arcane Barrages and core abilities like Howling Blast. We think the Ret toolkit is in a better place with separate single-target and AE finishers, but we get requests all the time to make Divine Storm more prominent. This set bonus is one way to do that. We also saw some complaints about yet another set bonus affecting TV, and thought maybe we could play with DS. We also saw complaints that TV randomly doing more damage would be frustrating. The new bonus allows you to take advantage of a proc to increase your damage. We could change the proc to Holy damage, but we would have to nerf it to account for the 2pc and Inquisition.
- For Blinding Light, we don't think it changes much that it's used at the end of a CC chain. It's still trickier to get off a cast time spell. You have to stop moving and risk interruption. Yes, you may use it defensively less often, but the net result will still be less being CC'd by a Holy paladin. No, the CC target can't stop the cast time, but we balance PvP around group play. During MoP development, we wanted to make sure paladins had more offensive pressure. Holy ended up getting plenty with higher nuke damage and access to Repentance. With the recent changes to shaman, Holy paladins are the most dominant healer in high-end PvP. We think this change along with the set piece bonus change will help bring that down a little.

The statement about ret paladin is confusing would the old proc or new proc be OP? RNG will still be part Ghostcrawler, unless it changes to 100%, which I don't believe it did.

Anyway, Ghostcrawler can't let ret paladins be above-average for one tier nowadays?

[Riptide]

Implying I can do anything to initiate a change.

I've tweeted GC several times over the last month. I usually get a response, but if not I always feel like they are read. Suggested Selfless healer change, pvp power being weak for ret and hurting us more than others, even the t15 set bonus being bad for ae. Amongst other things that haven't changed and maybe never will. But I still feel like it helps. I'm not taking credit for the changes, but I do feel like my voice was heard.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53558937378818 Voice your opinion on the set bonus there, maybe add some suggestions. Not just you either, the more the better.

[Meteoric]

You're misinformed about T14 2-piece clearly... it's more than that.

Without the set bonus, TV makes up a little over 10% of our single-target damage. Add ~40% for Mastery + Inq, and we're looking at around 15% of our total damage coming from TV. +15% of 15% is 2.25%. So it's certainly not far in excess of 2% (we'd need 27% of our damage to come from TV for the set bonus to be worth 4%, for example), but this is just napkin math of course. I may have misremembered something in saying it was under 2%.

t15 2p is around 3% by itself (+6% to 2/3 of our damage, ~70% uptime, possibly higher uptime with t15 levels of haste), and a bit more with the 4p since DS deals Holy damage.

If the new 4pc ends up being worth 3-4%, that'll be reasonably acceptable in terms of the overall outcome. I'm not thrilled with the mechanics of it, though.

[Vasya111]

Anyway, Ghostcrawler can't let ret paladins be above-average for one tier nowadays?

New change to 4pc set bonus: lightning will now strike paladin himself when he tries to be above average.

[silverhatred]

even the t15 set bonus being bad for ae

You did this.

[Riptide]

You did this.

Clearly it was me and I presented this exact solution.

[Meteoric]

Clearly it was me and I presented this exact solution.

AHA, HE ADMITS IT!

>:P

(guys, it's not a witch hunt, we all know Blizzard is quite capable of coming up with bad ideas all on their own)

[Megraam]

3 sets in bag, 2 changes prepull, here I come.

[Improtaight]

New Ret 4pc reads in totality (i.e. there is no mention of Templar's Verdict): "Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous have a X% chance to cause your next Divine Storm to also strike its primary target with a Lightning Bolt for Y Nature damage." Y is about a Templar's Verdict.

Nature dmg??? huh? where the hell did this come from? i understand not putting it holy coz that would be too hard hitting, but nature dmg? is that coz it's a "storm"? dafuq

I like the 4-set bonus, puts more spice into it dont u think?
i think people get too much into just one thing, dmg, instead of dmg and fun/spice into fighting...
would u be satisfied with always being #1 in dmg coz of a set bonus if it means u only have to press on crusader strike? i think not my friends

[Meteoric]

It deals nature damage because it's a lightning bolt, and it's a lightning bolt because we're fighting the Thunder King in the Throne of Thunder raid and the entire tier is lightning-themed. Similar to how we got fire damage procs in t12.

[nyc81991]

If they want DS to go back to being something we use more in our main rotation why not just make it a non holy power move? Put it on a 5 second cd and make it cost mana again.

[Improtaight]

It deals nature damage because it's a lightning bolt, and it's a lightning bolt because we're fighting the Thunder King in the Throne of Thunder raid and the entire tier is lightning-themed. Similar to how we got fire damage procs in t12.

ah, yeah, that actually makes much more sense... but if he is a "thunder" king should he be immune to thunder/lightning? just like all fire bosses in firelands were immune to fire... NOT!!!

[Veliane]

i understand not putting it holy coz that would be too hard hitting

Meanwhile Frost DKs run around hitting Obliterate.

[Monoroth]

If they want DS to go back to being something we use more in our main rotation why not just make it a non holy power move? Put it on a 5 second cd and make it cost mana again.

If they do that then we'll have extra holy power cause only ability that'll use Holy power is Inq,DS oh and WoG. Well then we would have to use Harsh Words glyph and which would make us powerfull by having 2nd ranged attc, 40 yard range, which hits hard. Would defently improve rets sustained dmg prob by to much.

[nyc81991]

If they do that then we'll have extra holy power cause only ability that'll use Holy power is Inq,DS oh and WoG. Well then we would have to use Harsh Words glyph and which would make us powerfull by having 2nd ranged attc, 40 yard range, which hits hard. Would defently improve rets sustained dmg prob by to much.

WW monks only use their Chi for single target attacks and have an Aoe that works off energy. If they made DS cost mana instead of HP we would simply use TV, WoG or Inq at 3 HP.

Glyph of harsh words is a dps loss with or without DS costing HP.

[Veliane]

I agree with GC that always playing with TV can be boring.
I can spot only one issue with the new set bonus.

If T10 taught us something is that extra buttons to push that increases your DPS dynamically to response is fun.
Extra buttons to push that increase your DPS by design at the cost of resources is... a simple finisher. o_o.


The difference standing in the 4pc bonus' way of making DS the first example, is the holy power cost.

Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous have a X% chance to cause your next Divine Storm to be free and to also strike its primary target with a Lightning Bolt for Y Nature damage

^ Wouldn't that feel just that much better?

[Butosai]

Nature dmg??? huh? where the hell did this come from? i understand not putting it holy coz that would be too hard hitting, but nature dmg? is that coz it's a "storm"? dafuq

I like the 4-set bonus, puts more spice into it dont u think?
i think people get too much into just one thing, dmg, instead of dmg and fun/spice into fighting...
would u be satisfied with always being #1 in dmg coz of a set bonus if it means u only have to press on crusader strike? i think not my friends

were you dropped on your head as a baby

Infracted. ~Fhi

[Terielx1]

I'm not sure If I really like that change. It will really depend on how much extra damage DS will do when it procs. If the 4 set only makes DS do extra damage when there is more than 1 target I don't think it will be very good at all.

ghost crawler said the extra damage will be equivalent to a templars verdict so it will essencially be like using divine storm AND templars verdict at the same time