Forcing us out of GoSaC = self healing nerf?

[Deleted]

Pet get heal and you get heal, your shared healthpool therefore gets a double dose of healing.

ya that would still result in 40k if the aoe heal hits for that amount

but I know already in what way it benefits your health pool (50% damage reduction, thus ehp = *2), only if we assume it was me that took the damage and not the pet however

how does soul-link work with boss abilities that drain % life btw? I remember rare mobs having that 2x 52% max hp strike, will you be able to survive it with soullink?

[Deleted]

Soul Link gives you a shared health pool with your pet, so all healing received is split between both allowing you to receive double healing from AoE and smart heals. Your pet is actually therefore far less likely to die with Soul Link than without.

Didnt quite think about that so thank you.

[Jessicka]

We disagree on Serv - I truly believe it's there as an option for a 'Spine' style encounter that was one of the go-to lock complaints during the MoP dev cycle. It's also an option in PvP or for 5mans. I honestly haven't paid much attention to demo this xpak (just not a fan of the 'rotation' at all), but I could see some fights using it (HM Windlord maybe?).

I'm fine having 1 niche talent in the tier - I just don't want 2.

Spine is NEVER going to happen again. GC has said countless times it was a mistake. There's just no point in having a talent for freak encounters, just as Sac would be if I said it was for an Alysrazor type encounter. That's just not what any of them are there for.

Serv is good for Demo if you don't have the 4 set bonus, but just gets broken by that too.

In regards to PvP, all the complaints about Chaos Wave and Chaos Bolt effectively stemmed from Sac. It just is that broken a talent, and it simply should never have made it live; but it has and we'll see rebalancing every patch because of it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 04:49 PM ----------

ya that would still result in 40k if the aoe heal hits for that amount

You would get 20k + 20k, and your pet would get 20k + 20k.

[Spektroman]

Because then it would still be the obvious grimoire for every encounter you could put dots on more than one target.

The alternative is to have it be the obvious grimoire for every encounter period. If given those two choices, would you rather GoSac be A) the obvious choice for SOME fights or B) the obvious choice for EVERY fight ?

Because as it's stands now on live (5.1) it sure looks a lot like B.

I stand by my previous statement, if a fight is single target only, supremacy should be better. If a fight has multiple targets, sac should be better. And service should be the best period, but hard to use to maximum efficiency. I believe the point of the new talent system is that you can switch on a fight per fight basis. Right now, I spec into sacrifice and never look back. I don't think the answer is cutting the talent completely though; I just with there was more of an advantage to using a pet so I wouldn't feel forced to use GoSac 100% of the time.

[Jessicka]

The alternative is to have it be the obvious grimoire for every encounter period. If given those two choices, would you rather GoSac be A) the obvious choice for SOME fights or B) the obvious choice for EVERY fight ?

Because as it's stands now on live (5.1) it sure looks a lot like B.

I stand by my previous statement, if a fight is single target only, supremacy should be better. If a fight has multiple targets, sac should be better. And service should be the best period, but hard to use to maximum efficiency. I believe the point of the new talent system is that you can switch on a fight per fight basis. Right now, I spec into sacrifice and never look back. I don't think the answer is cutting the talent completely though; I just with there was more of an advantage to using a pet so I wouldn't feel forced to use GoSac 100% of the time.

I'd agree if most encounters didn't necessitate some level of multidotting, but they do and having Sac better for it would lead to it being B anyway.

[pokeadott]

1) Forget Service. No one really cares about it.

2) You may hate Sac, but a lot of people LOVE it. Not watching pets aimlessly meander around the map (pve or pvp), not worrying about pet despawning or other random goofyness, not seeing my all new level of squishyness pet die to arena splash damage, etc. are ALL great reasons to include Sac in the game. It's not hard to balance at all - they just need to balance Sac for multi, Sup for Single, and tweak the numbers to a point where there are slight benefits to each talent ona given boss fight. It just means reallocating how GoSac deals damage for Aff - which incidently would go a LONG way to helping Aff pvp too (which is desperately needs).

Btw, Demo CW damage was never sac related - it was baseline. Pretty much every demo pvper goes Sup for the imp MS and the higher WG HP to backup pet bubble.

I'd agree if most encounters didn't necessitate some level of multidotting, but they do and having Sac better for it would lead to it being B anyway.

Not really. Guards - multi, Feng - single, Gara - multi, Kings - single, Ele - single/aoe (weird fight to math out), Will - multi, Vizier - Single, Blade - Single, Garal - Multi or Single (dep on comp), WL/Amber/Empress - AoE/Single (weird again), Protectrs - Single, Tsu - Single, Lei - Single, Sha - Multi.

That's a pretty even split. Even in some add encounters (HM Windlord again), the single target grim might edge out the multi grim anyway. I really don't think it would be a problem to have Sup = Single target dominant fight, Sac = Multi target dominant fight.

[lockedout]

Pet get heal and you get heal, your shared healthpool therefore gets a double dose of healing.

It is not "double" healing in any way fathomable.
It is a single heal that heals you and your pet.

If aoe damage goes out does that mean you take 4 times as much damage?

[Jessicka]

It is not "double" healing in any way fathomable.
It is a single heal that heals you and your pet.

If aoe damage goes out does that mean you take 4 times as much damage?

Pets don't loose avoidance.

And pokeadott, I like Service. I'd be more tolerant of Sac if it wasn't causing such obvious issues. And with CW you'd pop sac before you burst with it and no longer needed your pets defence.

[Shodan30]

I'm kinda sad to see thier stance on gosac. The moment I could take gosac I jumped on it.

Maybe I've got rose colored glasses on this one. But in Wrath it seemed like my pet was an asset. It seemed like it was an extension of me and a useful tool. Since Cata and the dumbed down controls and buggy actions, it just seems like an achor that's weighing me down and detracting me from the task at hand. Maybe it's me that changed. I'm not sure.

I know I don't miss:
Watching my pet run in circles doing 0 dps while I multidot everything.
Having to choose a pet that does less dps than another due to fight mechanics with no other option.
Having to create macros to have my pet do what it use to do under the old control system.

I will use Gosac until they either take it away or make it too much of a dps loss.

I think your behind the times abit. i've been really impressed by my pets AI this expansion. with a few small execptions, ive seen him react to abilities (like with the void tanking the alliance Male rare npc in the new stronghold in the wilds that can drop the brawlers guild invite...when hes about to do his sword slash thing the void goes behind him). and void does a pretty damn good bit of damage too.

[Deleted]

It is not "double" healing in any way fathomable.
It is a single heal that heals you and your pet.

If aoe damage goes out does that mean you take 4 times as much damage?

When AoE damage goes out the pet takes 50k damage and you will take 500k damage (90% damage reduction on pets), which means because of soul link you will instead you will take 275k damage and the pet will take 275k damage. Because of soul leech you will be healed "double", meaning that you only have to heal 275k instead of 500k with soul leech to be back at 100% health. Soul Link is incredibly underrated, and is easily the best overall talent for PvE in that talent tier. Disclaimer: I don't know if soul link shares in relative or absolute values!

[Deleted]

You would get 20k + 20k, and your pet would get 20k + 20k.

yes yes, but I'd get 40k anyway even if that AoE heal hits me and me alone. because I don't have to share the amount healed with my pet.
as mentioned, the reason why you get an additional benefit from it is because your effective HP is twice as high with soullink.

for example (to make it sound simple), a 20k heal with 0% damage reduction is worth 20k HP
but a 20k heal with 50% damage reduction (soullink) is worth 40k hp (as long as the pet survives that damage)

in our example, if the AoEspell heals for 40k and hits both me and my pet, i'd get 80k EHP instead of just 40k. (and without Soullink I'd get 40k - and 40k overheal on the pet.. probably)

well, doesn't matter I get it.. don't worry, even though I'm not able to explain it well.

[Jessicka]

Yeah, that's 80k going into a 600k health pool...