Why does socialized medicine suck again?

[namelessone]

I welcome your comment on my post as proof of what I just said, thank you very much. If you have something of value to add, please do so, I would hate having to talk about your avatar and pretend I knew what the person in your avatar would have thought about the subject at hand.

And just to throw that in, the stocks of major pharmaceutical companys went up the moment obamacare was approved, just give that a moment of thought, will ya? Socialized medicine doesn't make it cheaper (quite the opposite) it just leaves others with the bill, and I find this attitude disgusting to say the least. The system is broken, and it's not government intervention that can fix it, it's the free market that can, but it isn't allowed to work in the healthcare industry.

Just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPdkhMVdMQ

And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.

[Miscer]

..and I bet we could count on one hand how many ITT have actually lived in other countries other than their homeland.

So, in effect the majority here are surely regurgitating unbiased and thorough reporting from god know's what media outlets.

[Deleted]

It doesn't. Only the American right believes otherwise.

edit - To be clear, I'm American, this isn't supposed to be nation bashing at all. I'm actually quite amenable to market solutions to healthcare problems, but recognize that socializing systems works just fine.

Also, the version of socialised medicine in the US is incredibly efficient and hihg quality compared to private medical care, its good enough for your elected representatives, but apparantly not for the general populance.

[Cjeska]

You need to be clear whether you mean "socialism" in an economic sense, or a political sense; they aren't the same.

"Socialism" in a political sense means social welfare programs. Every first world country is socialist to a fairly extensive degree already, even the US.

"Socialism" in an economic sense means co-operatives and union ownership. The root difference between economic socialism and capitalism can be boiled down thus; capitalism is banks, socialism is credit unions. Yes, you can have both in the same system.


If you think "socialism" means anything else, you are, to be blunt, wrong. Crack a dictionary sometime.

Should be pretty clear what he is talking about, did you read the topic?

[fengosa]

ITT we get to hear from everyone that doesn't live in the U.S tell us how bad it is.

Income equality in the US is an issue whether you want to admit or not. Universal healthcare is one step that would help fix it.

[Endus]

Should be pretty clear what he is talking about, did you read the topic?

I was clarifying for the purpose of other readers, not the guy I was responding to. Because people still use "sochulizm!" like it's a bad word.

[Glorious Leader]

And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.

That is the fundamental root of the problem. They don't see any value in solidarity. In large part because fear of the state has been engendered into them since the revolution.

The United States is a reverse socialism. Welfare for the rich and powerful, whos interests are taken care of ABOVE ALL ELSE (and historically always has been except for cases of mass protest and worker solidarity). Tough love for the poor and middle class.

[Sanguinare]

People like the idea of paying $100 for something only they get then needing to pay $25 for them selves and $25 for others.
How much money would the average person pay to live.( I think all that they had) what good is money to a dead person.


most the people in the US don't like US Socialism because we give way to much money to the people that only use it to gain more power in the US and not to people that need it to have a roof over there head to sleep under. hell Mitt Romny got to say his worth was $70,000 less every year because his horse was just so needed for the grater good of all US citizens. why is it chevron gets millions form our gov to stay in operation but can rack up billlions in profit in the same years, but the non profit food bank in my town needs to beg for a few extra cans of food to feed people.

[mistuhbull]

Between highscool and college I worked for 1 year. In that one year I payed 28.000 dollars in taxes. Majority of that money went to the health department of the government. Seeing that I am a healthy individual, I haven't got much bang for my buck.

and how much did you make? because in the US, for a year of work with nought but a HS diploma, you'd be hard pressed to be making more than 20k before taxes

[Cjeska]

And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.

Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.

[Daez]

Socialized medicine does not work in a for profit healthcare arena. I believe that healthcare should not be a for profit business, but since the people that run this multibillion dollar a year industry have more money to pay off Congress than pretty much anyone else... Congress will continue to be more concerned with what the lobbyist think than what is best for the American people.

[Glorious Leader]

Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.

Actually it did. The process of socialization in Canada began in the the 1970s and health care costs haven't seen the sharp rise that they have in the united states. They certainly have risen but the evidence shows that health care costs have stayed cheaper in large part because the profit motive is not an issue. Free markets simple do not do planning or organization on a scale required to be effecient. The supposed effecient markets hypothesis is a myth like the tooth fairy.

[namelessone]

Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.

Do you have concrete evidence to prove that it's wrong?

[mvaliz]

Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.

...then please enlighten us as to what causes Socialized Medicine in other countries to be much cheaper and yet maintain the same level of care, if not better, than the USA?

[pucGG]

and how much did you make? because in the US, for a year of work with nought but a HS diploma, you'd be hard pressed to be making more than 20k before taxes

51000$ a year.

[Miscer]

Income equality in the US is an issue whether you want to admit or not. Universal heakthcare is one step that would help fix it.

Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!

[Wafffles]

I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....

At the very least, there were three paid professionals in that operating room with you. We won't even factor in MD insurance, operating devices, medicine, janitorial professionals and products to sterilize the room after you, upkeep of the hospital, power and plumbing bills, administration costs, cost of the bed you were laying on, etc. Simply considering wages, you paid doctors and nurses who went through YEARS of education to not, you know, kill you on the table, $2.50 an hour. I'm not even talking about the tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars they spend on that education, which surely will prompt claims that education is overpriced, which it is. I'm talking about the sacrifice, dedication, and talent it takes to attend and succeed in medical school/ nursing school. And you think a fair compensation is roughly 1/3 minimum wage?

So yes, someone else, somewhere, is paying for your awesome surgery; if they aren't, then it's the doctors who are paying, and getting truly screwed, likely prompting future prospective doctors to go into fields like business instead.

Don't get me wrong, either, America needs to and inevitably is moving towards socialized medicine. It works better and it makes more sense, even in vehemently capitalistic societies. I'm merely pointing out that you really do need to pay for it somehow, even once costs are minimized. And while $6000 may be ridiculous, there's no way the associated costs I just listed didn't realistically cost a thousand bucks or more. And you paid $15.

[Kurioxan]

it is cultural, you have to understand that US culture is deeply rooted on competition over cooperation (a relic of cold era when anything that could be twisted remotely into "communism" was deemed bad, such as cooperation, sharing, common good)

Being based on competition it creates also a deep sense of entitlement, the socialized healthcare means that any bum can get as good health care as the guy who worked his ass off for many years (many still believe that working hard has anything to do with wealth, load of bs) and they see it as unfair, why should the bum have the same rights as the guy who worked hard?

It is cultural really but luckly a lot of people are starting to think differently, when all the old white men die off old age maybe there will be a lot of change.

[fengosa]

Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!

Payroll holiday, nothing to do with healthcare costs.

[mvaliz]

Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!

...I think you mean "Distributed"...

Though I am trying to picture what "disturbed wealth" is... I'm kinda picturing an "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" kinda horror story with Dollar Bills strangling people.