Ganking - Official Blue Response

[GKLeatherCraft]

There cannot have been much of a level difference between your shamen and the mage or you would not have been able to hex him as the spell would have missed every time. But overall I think you proved the point that people that gank others are not the most skilled if he was unable to master one of the most basic PVP skills and interrupt your spell casting.

Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"

[Midgjitsu]

my fave is that rare rocket launcher that you get it can dismount anyone pretty much a one shot for any low lvls too I got raped reaptedly by a allie paladon the other day on my dk in nagrand I'll admit it is fun to try and lvl a new toon with out being ganked but thems the joys of lvling on a pvp server

[GKLeatherCraft]

"Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.
EJL

No, the meaning of "Player Vs Player" is one player fighting another, nothing to do with a fair fight at all, Sure it's more fun when it's a fair fight, but that doesn't change what the literal meaning of PvP is

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:12 PM ----------

my fave is that rare rocket launcher that you get it can dismount anyone pretty much a one shot for any low lvls too I got raped reaptedly by a allie paladon the other day on my dk in nagrand I'll admit it is fun to try and lvl a new toon with out being ganked but thems the joys of lvling on a pvp server

Rocket launcher? I know of the Hardened Shell, never seen a rocket launcher

[Endus]

"Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.

The bit I put in italics is not true. It isn't the "usual expectation". It's something you're making up and trying to shoehorn in. It is not true now, nor has it ever been true. It's necessary for competitive PvP, but random open world PvP is not and has never been intended to be "competitive" in WoW.

[Deleted]

Endus, I commend your great patience regarding this "issue", regardless of the silly defenitions people have about the word in question lol

[Flaks]

Ha. Legit.
Seeing people whinge and cry had no idea the amount of pain that went into level in STV in Vanilla/TBC.

In vanilla (not as much in tBC even), the realm communities were closer. There would, more often than not, be a higher level ally around to help side when ganking occurred. And more often than not gank fests weren't really ganking at all because they would escalate into balls out 5v5 or even raids at times even on low pop realms.

With the advent of flying mounts that part of pvp has been all but forgotten in the old continents which is why the implementation of CRZ was just an all around terrible call. Like I've said a million times, you don't attempt to go back to an older form of the game in one regard without addressing the thing that caused it to change in the first place. Setting precedents and then going back on them only hurts the game, the community and the company.

[Zoldor]

I never got to play on a pvp server long enough in vanilla to embrace the pvp. My RL friends played on a PvE I went there shortly after rolling. I have a question, if you are close in character lvl do you get exp for killing another player in the open world?

[Talen]

The bit I put in italics is not true. It isn't the "usual expectation". It's something you're making up and trying to shoehorn in.

Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.

No, the meaning of "Player Vs Player" is one player fighting another, nothing to do with a fair fight at all, Sure it's more fun when it's a fair fight, but that doesn't change what the literal meaning of PvP is p

A level 90 does not fight a Level 1

EJL

[philefluxx]

Man..... the new age of "Entitled" gamers is really showing its face in this thread today. I still cant believe people are arguing semantics over here.....

[GKLeatherCraft]

Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.



A level 90 does not fight a Level 1

EJL

Lol what the hell has a lvl 90 fighting a lvl 1 got to do with anything?

[Endus]

Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.

Repeating a falsehood over and over doesn't make it true.

"Player versus player" means one player attacking another. It does not require the ability to defend yourself. It does not require fairness. What other games might choose to do in their game is irrelevant to the definition of the concept. And if you really wanted to bring up game-specific definitions, then as I've cited, WoW is explicitly clear that PvP servers allow for unfair, unequal PvP activity.

There's no necessity of fairness in the term, generally speaking.
WoW specifically states that PvP realms are "unfair", while PvE realms are "fair".
If you're on a PvP realm and compaining about how unfair it is, then the issue is that you made an uninformed choice, not that the server rules are "wrong".

[GKLeatherCraft]

No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.



Where one party can't run...can't hide...can't fight.

EJL

Nope, doesn't sound familiar at all, I've hardly ever seen gankers run away when another person their lvl shows up, I've helped countless people against gankers, and i have maybe seen like 1 out of 20 of those run away, and not attack me also, Just because one person runs away, or shows no skill, doesn't mean they all do,That's stereotyping, and stereotyping=Bad, and pointless, i know many, many high rated PvPers that go around ganking, there is like 3guilds of them on my server

[Forumchibi]

Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.

I know no MMOs that follow rules like that, and would love an example. If you are on a PvP server and are outside of a safe area like a city, you are fair game by every single player who runs into you. I'm not sure if this is your first MMO, but having played games that had completely open world PvP (like Ultima Online) and hated it, I've always known in every game to avoid them like the plague.

This mentality of "fair" factoring at all into the definition of versus makes me want to cry, and it's pretty much the mentality of most of the people who want to jump ship. I can understand that pre-CRZ that this is how it was and so you were a given a false impression of what a PvP server entailed, but as Blizzard said, this was never the intent of how they were supposed to be. If they were, they would have had limits from the start or added them in, but they have not for the last 8 years. It's only becoming an issue now because CRZ has increased the populations to make it more prevalent. I'm also not sure if you jumped into WoW late, but one of my coworkers used to tell me stories all the time before transferring out about how he could get ganked and switch to his main to hunt and camp people for hours for revenge. High levels ganking lowbies is nothing new, it's just more frequent.

There is a danger in every game with open PvP that you will be attacked at any time and place by someone else - it does not matter how much higher or lower your level or gear is, it does not matter how inconvenient it is, whether you're in the mood or not, it can and will happen if you are not in a safe area. All fights that occur outside of a safe zone have no rules, and likely no honor. You can be as honorable as you want to others, but you can't ever control the actions of other players, and should never expect them to be the same as you. PvP does not follow your rules and expectations, and never has - it follows the one golden rule that you can attack anyone at any time for any reason, making it one giant free-for-all.

[Pann]

Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"

Why do you think I am mad? I do believe that AOE spells have a different hit mechanic to direct casts a level 51 would have almost zero chance hitting a level 85 with a directly cast spell. Based on you had to ress behind him in order to hex him suggests that your game of cat and mouse was not quite as successful as you originally implied. I am glad you enjoyed the experience but many others would not.

[GKLeatherCraft]

The other issue here is people throwing around the word "fair" because currently there are 90s who have 0 chance against other 90s, there is a hunter in particular on my realm, who spends his time ganking anyone, and he loves sitting near Wrathion, waiting for all the fresh 90s, while he himself is in full Malevolent gear, several items upgraded, and against him, those fresh 90s have zero chance, So would you have a problem with that like you do against a lvl 51? At least a lvl 51 has his misery ended quickly lol

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:51 PM ----------

Why do you think I am mad? I do believe that AOE spells have a different hit mechanic to direct casts a level 51 would have almost zero chance hitting a level 85 with a directly cast spell. Based on you had to ress behind him in order to hex him suggests that your game of cat and mouse was not quite as successful as you originally implied. I am glad you enjoyed the experience but many others would not.

How was it not succesfull? i ress, hex, run away, i can't fly so he follows, and kills me, i then ress again, run away, try and CC, etc etc, that's a game of cat and mouse, and i was squeaking, alot lol, i was only 87 so it wasn't too much of an issue, but on a side note the mage also frostbolt me several times, because once another guildie showed up to slaughter me he often slowed me lol

[Granyala]

Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"

Fine he hits you. Wooo. Bet he really made a dent in your 150K HP pool too. lol.

With the HP scaling World PvP even between 85 and 90 has become completely retarded. I can disassemble a lv 85 PvP geared guy in my 90raid gear, before he can even say "moo".

Personally I can't wrap my head around why people even defend this broken state of the game.

But, luckily I don't have to: PvE Servers FTW!

[GKLeatherCraft]

Fine he hits you. Wooo. Bet he really made a dent in your 150K HP pool too. lol.

With the HP scaling World PvP even between 85 and 90 has become completely retarded. I can disassemble a lv 85 PvP geared guy in my 90raid gear, before he can even say "moo".

Personally I can't wrap my head around why people even defend this broken state of the game.

But, luckily I don't have to: PvE Servers FTW!

I don't think you realised what i was talking about, someone said that spells from a low level can't hit a high lvl, so i just mentioned how it can, and just said about that event, It has nothing to do with him hurting me

[Pann]

How was it not succesfull? i ress, hex, run away, i can't fly so he follows, and kills me, i then ress again, run away, try and CC, etc etc, that's a game of cat and mouse, and i was squeaking, alot lol, i was only 87 so it wasn't too much of an issue, but on a side note the mage also frostbolt me several times, because once another guildie showed up to slaughter me he often slowed me lol

From the sounds of things he killed you at leisure, repeatedly. Personally I would not call being killed repeatedly successful but I guess our definitions differ. As I said it sounds like you enjoyed the experience and fair play to you, but can you not see how others would not like to be the plaything of a bored max level character and the only chance they have of escape is hoping he gets bored or they log-off?

[Granyala]

I don't think you realised what i was talking about, someone said that spells from a low level can't hit a high lvl, so i just mentioned how it can, and just said about that event, It has nothing to do with him hurting me

In PvE spells can reliably hit up to 4 levels above you.
5+ gets very annoying and if you see a ?? Mob you can basically just forget casting stuff.
Melee is a bit different, they get glancing blows but generally they get to bring their stuff to the target.

If the difference between the mob's level and your level is greater than 2, then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is: 
 with single-wielding: 2% + (Mob Level - Your Level) * 2%

Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Hit

So that 51 had: 2% + (85-51)*2% = 2% + 34*2% = 70% miss chance.

While it has been quite a while since I PvPd against high level players, I'm pretty confident in saying that the same formula applies there.

[GKLeatherCraft]

From the sounds of things he killed you at leisure, repeatedly. Personally I would not call being killed repeatedly successful but I guess our definitions differ. As I said it sounds like you enjoyed the experience and fair play to you, but can you not see how others would not like to be the plaything of a bored max level character and the only chance they have of escape is hoping he gets bored or they log-off?

I mean it was a succesful game of cat and mouse, sometimes i got away, sometimes i didn't^^ I can definitely see why others would hate it, Being the GM of a few guilds now across several servers, mainly for levellers i've seen people get really upset by it, some days i can only log on for an hour, and I'm sure if someone was ganking someone for the whole time they could be online, that would be immensely frustraing=/