Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Kasierith]

Who is we?

I'm glad you asked, as I have an answer!

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/295/5563/2215.full

"If I were forced to rush in where angels fear to tread, I would offer “a living organism is an organized unit, which can carry out metabolic reactions, defend itself against injury, respond to stimuli, and has the capacity to be at least a partner in reproduction.” But I'm not happy with such a brief definition. When allowed more extensive reflection, however, I think the fundamental pillars on which life as we know it is based can be defined. By “pillars” I mean the essential principles—thermodynamic and kinetic—by which a living system operates. Current interest in discovering life in other galaxies and in recreating life in artificial systems indicates that it would be desirable to elucidate those pillars, their operation, and why they are essential to life. In this essay, I will refer to the particular mechanisms by which those principles are implemented in life on Earth, while reserving the right to suggest that there may be other mechanisms to implement the principles. If I were in ancient Greece, I would create a goddess of life whom I would call PICERAS, for reasons that will become clear."

[Deleted]

Dont forget the 255.000.000,00 children you kill everytime you jack off into a towel. Mass Murder, i kill people in the ammount of the worlds population in a Month.

Towel is messy, I prefer swallow. You see, as a card holding member of Greenpeace I'm quite a proponent of recycling.

[whathump]

Nah, it was never a reasonable conversation but it has become interesting with the occasional circle back now and again. I am waiting to hear a guy come and tell at what point they began to feel disposable and unneeded. There is a whole group of men that feel they have no place in this world because now women have moved into the roles that traditionally was part of the shaping force behind the male "identity". If they feel that women and to a certain extent society, does not need them as protectors, providers, fathers, or husbands what are they needed as? Nothing more than a sperm donor or a slave to the whim of the women around them.

I want to know!

A bit late because of organizing my thoughts, but oh well.

I feel like I've been told by my parents is that my only job is to go to college, get a job, and provide for a family. I've never wanted to be anything other than a writer, and I don't feel any desire to have children. I went to college for about a year (smart enough to get a full scholarship), but I absolutely could not stand it so I dropped out. My mom constantly pressures me to go to community college and then go back to university, and doesn't accept my desire to solely write, insisting that I can't support a family as a writer.

My mom and my dad divorced when I was 8 or 9 and she pretty much cut off most all contact with him, and I didn't see him except a couple weekends a month. They didn't get along well towards the end of the marriage. She ended up just raising me and my sisters on her own, and my dad barely played much of a role in my life. I guess I didn't really understand at the time why my dad was so frustrated after the divorce. My sisters and I were the most important things to him and he didn't get to see us much and didn't get much opportunity to help raise us. We went on quite a few fun trips with my mom, but never went with my dad because he never got enough time. I used to enjoy going on road trips to see my dad's family in Idaho around Christmas and spend a week or so there in the snow. I never got to go on those trips after the divorce.

I don't know how much child support or alimony my dad had to pay, but my mom lived rather comfortably after divorcing my dad, and he wasn't able to afford a living space big enough for my sisters and I for a few years, only a tiny condo (my mom kept the house). He went through a few jobs at this point as well, if I remember correctly. It either started shortly after or shortly before the divorce. I know for sure my mom didn't have a job at that point, but still got primary custody. She did get a well-paying job later, though.

I don't really get how my mom can tell me that I need to get a job and support a family when she divorced my dad and supported us without any real need for him to even be in the picture.

My mom and sisters are rather materialistic. Perhaps it's just me, but I've never understood the reasons behind giving jewelry and expensive gifts on Valentine's Day and anniversaries or even the point behind them, and I remember my mom got in a fight with my step-dad (she remarried when I was halfway through high school.) because he didn’t her something expensive one year. She told me that one day when I get married I’m gonna have to spoil my wife with jewelry and such, and work to support her. This was only reinforced through my experiences outside of my family.

I honestly did feel like for a while that my only real value to any potential partner the amount of money I would have or my social status or my looks, and not so much who I am as a person or my mind. Perhaps I don't feel like that anymore because it's something I don't think about anymore. Either way I had my mom pushing it on me that my duty was to marry and work to provide. My dad married and provided but then after the divorce it turned out he wasn't really needed to provide either, aside from maybe child support and alimony to make things more comfortable. He provided what could be called emotional support, but that made no difference really. It's hard for me to fathom how a good dad must feel to not be able to see his kids often, not be able to raise them or take them on trips, to lose his house and basically his entire life that he built, in a divorce. I suppose the best comparison I can make for it for myself is if everything I had written was destroyed or burned. It would be losing the identity that I had built for myself. My dad was a family man and basically lost his identity. My dad was lucky that my mom grew up without a father and she wanted us to have a relationship with my dad (although I don’t think she realized a few days a month isn’t much of a relationship), because she probably could have gotten full custody.

I consider myself lucky because my girlfriend (and future wife) does not care for anything material, doesn't mind living in poverty, and doesn't want kids either. She wants to support herself and wouldn’t feel right to live off of what I make, which I find pretty odd to find in anyone. She’s had a shitty life and had terrible things happen to her and she doesn’t bitch about it and doesn’t let it affect her, and we both find humor in it. Everything I had seen up to the point of meeting her had told me that this type of person does not even exist. And now I know that people like her are actually real. So, I would say things have ended up working out well.

Probably still a bit disorganized, but oh well. TL;DR mom (and it feels like society as well) tells me my job in life is to provide for a wife and raise kids, she divorced my dad and pretty much raised me and my sisters on her own, no real need for dad.

[Wells]

This is maddening, its like saying murder for hire is vanishingly rare, so we'll let the murderers go if they do it for a living, can't run them out of a job after all.

Something about comparing murder to having to pay child support seems pretty stupid.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 04:23 AM ----------

maybe you should learn to read

"I would appreciate an answer" is hardly a demand.

And yes pretty much any adult would like to think we would evolve to a point where we don't have to kill unborn children. Just like any sane adults wishes at some point there will be no violence, gun deaths, etc...

Your premise is that its a child and you're demanding he assume it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

We don't control your bodies.



Back-alley abortions are not sanitary safe. Infections.

You're just being really stupid now. I've found myself to agree with some of what you said in the thread but this is just incredible. You ARE a misogynist.

No, I'm not. I am using the fail logic others have used. It was using that logic in a different area. Using a hypothetical doesn't mean I feel that way. I am all for freedoms, including abortion. And yes, even if unemployed you have to pay child support. How is this fair, correct, equal, and not control over my body? My body will go to jail if I don't pay for something you want, you chose to make, you decided upon, REGARDLESS of how much money I make.

So how am I a woman hater?

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 11:38 PM ----------

Can we stop playing pretend with this "tricked into having a kid" shit? That happens almost never. Most people would agree it's pretty awful, but it's not really a valid basis to make overarching policies off of. Pretending that it's actually very common is just another version of misogyny.

Saying its not imporant enough to do anything about is just another form of misandry.

[Deleted]

If she doesn't want to have a baby then don't have sex? How can you justify killing an unborn child just because the mother doesn't want to carry him/her for 9months? Ask yourself again, would an advanced civilization kill their unborn children? I would appreciate an answer so I can accurately gauge your craziness meter.

A fetus is not a child. Abortions are allowed up until week 18 no matter the circumstances in Sweden, up until it can survive outside the mother I don't really see it as "living" in the real sense of life. From week 19 to 22 you'll need a special permit, such as severe risk of it being born with defects/damages/won't survive or posing a health risk to the mother. From week 22 and onward you're not allowed to abort at all.

If I didn't want a child I wouldn't want a fetus inside me growing, being unable to get rid of it.

[superstargoddess]

Let's do a survey on how many men would use women for sex, then we shall see things in a more even light!

[Mayhem]

Let's do a survey on how many men would use women for sex, then we shall see things in a more even light!

uhm what? as a hetero man, what else would you use? what do i miss here?

[Deleted]

uhm what? as a hetero man, what else would you use? what do i miss here?

...

There's a difference between using someone for sex and having sex with them.

[PizzaSHARK]

uhm what? as a hetero man, what else would you use? what do i miss here?

There's a difference between a fuckpuppet and a partner.

[TheBeardedOne]

...

There's a difference between using someone for sex and having sex with them.

wait so when use women for sex its wrong, but when women use men for sex, its ok, but even better if they were to get pregnant and choose to keep it the man has to pay for 18 years

[PizzaSHARK]

wait so when use women for sex its wrong, but when women use men to make a bady they should get the mans money as well and this is right

You can't fucking be serious.

[TheBeardedOne]

You can't fucking be serious.

i have re written it to make sense but that is what they have been arguing this whole thread

[Deleted]

wait so when use women for sex its wrong, but when women use men for sex, its ok, but even better if they were to get pregnant and choose to keep it the man has to pay for 18 years

Use. Protection.

Or make sure the woman you're having sex with is using protection herself.

[PizzaSHARK]

i have re written it to make sense but that is what they have been arguing this whole thread

It still doesn't make sense. Are you seriously arguing that women intentionally get pregnant to make money via child support payments?

That makes absolutely no sense. At all.

[TheBeardedOne]

Use. Protection.

this is exactly the same as blaming someone that has been raped for dressing slutty. You are blaming a victom for been deceived purely because they are male.
You have shown your true misandrist colours once again

[Deleted]

this is exactly the same as blaming someone that has been raped for dressing slutty. You are blaming a victom for been deceived purely because they are male.
You have shown your true misandrist colours once again

Did you just fucking compare rape to a man not wanting to use protection? I'm just gonna put you on ignore.

[obdigore]

this is exactly the same as blaming someone that has been raped for dressing slutty. You are blaming a victom for been deceived purely because they are male.
You have shown your true misandrist colours once again

No, that is Tiili saying that men need to take precautions available to them to prevent them from impregnating a woman. Just as a woman would use precautions to not be impregnated.

Calling someone a misandrist because they think both sexes should take precautions is pretty sad.

[TheBeardedOne]

It still doesn't make sense. Are you seriously arguing that women intentionally get pregnant to make money via child support payments?

That makes absolutely no sense. At all.

yes some women will try and trap a man via pregnancy whether it be to keep them in a relationship, to get their money, because they want one and their partner doesn't or out of spite(though it is rare it shouldn't be ignored)

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 07:29 AM ----------

Did you just fucking compare rape to a man not wanting to use protection? I'm just gonna put you on ignore.

Its the same line of thinking you fucking sexist. You are blaming a victim for been deceived, what if shock horror, she tampered with his rubbers is this his fault as well for keeping them under lock and key

[PizzaSHARK]

No not just that at all, though the numbers are low(hard to get actual numbers as ts just hearsay) some women will purposely get pregnant to try and force a man to stay in a relationship, others may and try and do it for the money as well, either way the man is still a victim and has to pay 18 years at least for it

Do you actually believe child support payments are large enough that getting pregnant and having a baby is profitable for the woman?

Its the same line of thinking you fucking sexist. You are blaming a victim for been deceived, what if shock horror, she tampered wit his rubbers is this his fault as well for keeping them under lock and key

Just keep mashing that keyboard and making the Cheetos dust fly, then. What guy doesn't keep his rubber in his wallet or pocket, anyway? I've never asked the girl to provide the protection, and even if I had, I wouldn't be fucking paranoid of her poking holes in the damned thing with a needle.

Do you just assume all women are out there trying to get pregnant, or what?