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  1. #81
    I think the point here was to try and start addressing the size of the average American vs the rest of the world. Yes, study etc are important. Having a population that find it normal and fun to be healthy rather than sit at home and get fat is probably a decent goal too.
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    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  2. #82
    Herald of the Titans Skarsguard's Avatar
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    As a parent to kids that are in school I have concluded that schools only care about Math and English. I asked the school teachers and principle that if my son failed every class except Math and English would have have to go to summer school or get held back and they point blank said no. Also when he was in middle school the school district had a no home work policy for kids. I asked the teachers what they thought about that and they said it was "dumb".

  3. #83
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    They take away US Gov classes? I fail to see a problem, its not like most Americans are using what they learn anyhow.
    If you don't even attempt to teach though, it will lead to even more problems. Not EVERYONE avoids using their education, you know.
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

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    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  4. #84
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    It's pretty vital in a representative democracy for the people choosing the representatives to know what it is that the representatives do.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 02:22 PM ----------



    And for the people who seem to think the president has full control over the economy.
    Yep.

    Hint: Where do all appropriations bills start? Another hint: It's not the executive branch!
    Putin khuliyo

  5. #85
    I see no difference in the two arguments...following it with "I don't vote and you don't know why and I'm not going to tell you cuz /face!" doesn't really bring anything to the table either.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Yep.

    Hint: Where do all appropriations bills start? Another hint: It's not the executive branch!
    oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust
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    You are a legend thats why.

  6. #86
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    I see no difference in the two arguments...following it with "I don't vote and you don't know why and I'm not going to tell you cuz /face!" doesn't really bring anything to the table either.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:30 PM ----------



    oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust

    This is getting a little off topic but yeah, we need to stop obsessing over the presidential role and start paying attention to the congress. Ole Georgie did his best to balance his power against that of congress for a reason, the presidency is NOT supposed to be what it has become to day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    I'm guessing this is directed at me. Would I be correct? If you care so much about why I choose not to vote... ask me.

    However, why would I need to justify anything about myself to someone who 1... has to create a second account to insult me. and 2... simply feels the need to insult me? I have been in this situation before and in my attempts to explain why I choose to do the things I do, it only seems to spark more insults. So I figured I wouldn't bother in this case as it wasn't worth the potential hassle.

    I think I just did? If you're not going to explain it, then don't bring it up. Or continue getting all defensive that works too. I don't -really- care what your reasons are, but it's a pretty weak response when someone calls you out on it.
    Last edited by Tradewind; 2013-01-24 at 08:37 PM.
    "You six-piece Chicken McNobody."
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    You are a legend thats why.

  8. #88
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    It's funny that you bring this up. I imagine you think it's going to make me think twice about giving up the civics class I was forced to take.... Let me let you in on a little secret.

    I haven't voted since 2000. The first year I could actually vote... I did so. Now, I don't bother. So, yeah. I am okay with what you have proposed. You want to play in a world of absolutes... I am more than willing to play along and I will even enjoy it
    No, I know your so entirely self assured you would never reconsider. That is fine. I want to take away your power to voluntarily make a terrible choice. I'm perfectly fine with requiring all citizens to pass a voter responsibility test.

    And no, before I get attacked for trying to reconstitute old Jim Crow laws, that is NOT my goal.

    Just a basic test that assures that the voter involved has made a minimal effort to educate themselves about the process. We require things like driving tests, how is this any less important? There is a precedent for this idea, why do you think the electoral college exists? Because we needed a stopgap between ignorant emotional uneducated voters and the actual process. Many of our framers relied heavily on the idea of an informed voting population.

    If your willing to turn the reins to your future over to those who would decide it for you, your welcome to do so.


    Hey lets make it easy, make civics a voluntary class in high school. At the end of the class you can take the voter test. If you pass you get your voter card. You don't have to pay anything to take the class, it isn't some big inconvenience. If you don't want to take it then sure, go ahead and pass on it, you can take the test later on in life if you change your mind, though then you will need to take time out of your life to learn what you need.

    Kinda like how drivers ed works in a lot of places.
    Last edited by Wiyld; 2013-01-24 at 08:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  9. #89
    I'm a firm believer in the "if you didn't vote you can't complain" stance.
    "You six-piece Chicken McNobody."
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    You are a legend thats why.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust
    I knew that too, and I dropped out of highschool before even taking the government/economics (civics) course senior year.

    Honestly, it's rather disturbing that they're thinking of dropping the requirement. The average person coming out of the school system is uneducated enough as it is, we don't need to make it worse. It's fucking mind boggling to think that they're doing things that would make them learn even less than they already do.

  11. #91
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    civics is still important

    it helps to prevent

    "keep your gov out of my medicade"

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    civics is still important

    it helps to prevent

    "keep your gov out of my medicade"
    Awww but I love those kinds of protesters.
    "You six-piece Chicken McNobody."
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    You are a legend thats why.

  13. #93
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    I am an incredibly indecisive person with a general disinterest in politics. The more I try to follow, the more I feel lost. Thus, the less I care about what is happening. I also tend to side with all parties on certain issues. I may think something proposed by a republican is great, and something different proposed by a democrat is also great. With that, I find flaws in all of the political parties. Knowing this, I find that I am completely incapable of making a decision I can be happy with. Pair that with watching as every politician fails to do something he/she has promised and the complaints after the fact... I feel it is my best interest to not involve myself.

    If I can't make an informed decision that I can be satisfied with, I feel it's better for me to leave these decisions to people who can make such a choice.

    That is why I choose not to vote.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 12:49 PM ----------



    Interesting. I wouldn't have expected myself to say this... but I agree with your idea. if this is what you were going towards with your statements earlier, I fully support them.


    Now I would HOPE that every student would take the class in school. I fully understand your frustration with the system, I don't think anyone who pays 5 mins worth of attention to daily politics doesn't feel the same way. The problem is that daily politics isn't what defines the essence of the process. Civics classes can kinda feel like going to church. you get preached at about how important it is that you REALLY believe in this thing called 'democracy' and we buy into it but when you go home and think about it your like 'wtf does it even mean'. Its like discussing 'grace' or 'salvation', we are all familiar with the words but can we truly define these abstract terms in concrete ways? Not usually, so then they just become these requisite terms that decorate agendas. Its important to really boil away all the pretty words and get down to concrete concepts things that everyone can understand.

    That brings up another thing that I feel is vitally important that we communicate to all our young voters. We sometimes feel overwhelmed by the entire governmental process, so we shrug and say 'fuck it I'll let the experts do it'. The problem is that there isn't a difference between a person who is a part of the government and one who is not. We aren't growing super humans ( as far as I know ) in vials to take care of the important stuff. These aren't infallible gods who understand things so much more clearly then the rest of us that we ought to just let them take care of it. These people are just as confused and impressionable as the rest of us. They need as much help as they can get, help that starts by directing them in a good general direction, and that comes from popular voting.




    On a side note, I don't know how big a recreational reader you are, but you might enjoy Starship Troopers. Yes, its the book that abortion of a movie was based on, but the book hardly resembles the movie. The book follows the same main character as the movie through his final year of high school and focus's heavily on his time in civics class. Some of the conversations he has with his teacher as great. One of my favorite parts is where his teacher gets him to realize that their current form of government is not 'the best way' its just 'the way that works best right now'.
    Last edited by Wiyld; 2013-01-24 at 09:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  14. #94
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Replying to bolded part:

    I completely agree that those classes have value, but I don't agree with sacrificing other classes just to make those more prominent than the rest.
    Especially when one of those classes you are sacrificing is Civics, which teaches students how the government actually works, rather than how their parents think it works.

    Also, I enjoyed all of my subjects, not just the maths and science ones, because I value a well rounded education, and I am also someone who is deeply curious about everything, so all the classes were fine to me.

    Still, opinions differ, and that's fine, I just don't believe it's a good idea to not teach Civics to students who will be eligible to vote soon after or even during the class.

    To be honest, I think our school system needs reworking, but that's just me.

    For example, I would add another class period or two, making it 8 or 9 class periods per day, make more subjects mandatory, and do year round schooling instead of being based off an agrarian calendar.
    Pretty much exactly what you said. Phys. Ed. has value, but if you have to choose one class over the other, I'd rather deal with a fat person than an ignorant one.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    This explains the Death Star petition! Emperor Obama, leader of the Empire, building a Death Star! Darth Vader... was black(on the outside)! It all makes sense now!

    Luke, where are you?
    The President is protected by the Secret Service.
    The Secret Service has the initials SS.
    SS was also the term used for Hitlers special police.
    The SS (Hitlers version) were the inspiration for Storm Troopers.
    Storm Troopers acted, in part, as protection for the Empire and Vader.
    As such Obama is Darth Vader.

    (Obviously this is intended as a joke.)

  16. #96
    I am not sure of the curriculum structure in DC but here in Massachusetts (regularly cited as the most educated state) we never had a civics class even offered at any level of public schooling.

    The closest thing I ever had was social studies which does deal with civics on some level but the class mostly just covered US and world history. I really don't see how civics is necessary as a public education course. Any class in US history should be able to cover the crucial need to know civics topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    The President is protected by the Secret Service.
    The Secret Service has the initials SS.
    SS was also the term used for Hitlers special police.
    The SS (Hitlers version) were the inspiration for Storm Troopers.
    Storm Troopers acted, in part, as protection for the Empire and Vader.
    As such Obama is Darth Vader.

    (Obviously this is intended as a joke.)
    The problem with those jokes is that there are people who will actually believe that...and they usually have a loud mouth.
    Last edited by Zylos; 2013-01-24 at 10:14 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    I am not sure of the curriculum structure in DC but here in Massachusetts (regularly cited as the most educated state) we never had a civics class even offered at any level of public schooling.

    The closest thing I ever had was social studies which does deal with civics on some level but the class mostly just covered US and world history. I really don't see how civics is necessary as a public education course. Any class in US history should be able to cover the crucial need to know civics topics.
    You would think that, yes. However when I graduated (way back in '96) "US History" involved a few battles during the Revolution with no mention of many important figures. A few battles during the Civil War, again, with no mention of many major figures. Virtually nothing about WW1 was covered and only a little about WW2 was mentioned. And nothing post-WW2 was mentioned. Nothing at all.

    I cited Washington DC as the most recent case in an ongoing issue. That issue is the common response to failing test scores and a poor educational system. If the children are doing poorly in a certain subject then get rid of/reduce the requirements for that subject.

  18. #98
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    You would think that, yes. However when I graduated (way back in '96) "US History" involved a few battles during the Revolution with no mention of many important figures. A few battles during the Civil War, again, with no mention of many major figures. Virtually nothing about WW1 was covered and only a little about WW2 was mentioned. And nothing post-WW2 was mentioned. Nothing at all.

    I cited Washington DC as the most recent case in an ongoing issue. That issue is the common response to failing test scores and a poor educational system. If the children are doing poorly in a certain subject then get rid of/reduce the requirements for that subject.
    Strange. I graduated High School in '01, and I thought that the school did a pretty good job with American History, aside from the one teacher who tried to teach us that Manifest Destiny was a form of Isolationism.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  19. #99
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Isnt Washington DC the lowest educated city in the country?

  20. #100
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Isnt Washington DC the lowest educated city in the country?
    I'm sure it depends how you measure it. There are a whole damn lot of highly educated lobbyists and policy wonks there.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

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