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  1. #101
    The Patient outflow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creedster View Post
    My lord. Why are people so goddamn serious about this game? Play it if you like it, if you don't like it don't play it! Whats the big deal?
    Englishman talking sense! What's happening to the world?

  2. #102
    Deleted
    Sub numbers are always so wrongly used. I'd be very surprised if there were more than 700k-800k unique and real players left in EU+NA.

  3. #103
    The Lightbringer
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    Trolling became too easy and too casual as well. Back in my day you had to think up truly clever schemes to trick people on your own server where they all knew you by name and not just press a button and 4 victims are instantly given to you ready-made with all the tools at your disposal to ruin their day. Definitely took the skill out of trolling when any idiot can just wipe randoms or hold everyone up and other nonsense. Blizz needs to bring back harder content and closer communities to give trolling a real sense of satisfaction and reward so I don't have to log in and see 5 random noobs making everyone angry just because they paid $15/month and feel they deserve the right to irritate others.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  4. #104
    1. dont make threads that just a copy & paste of some reddit or other site. It just increases redudancy which is high enough already. If people are looking for a discussion on the subject they would have found it on reddit.

    2. Search the freaking forum before opening new threads. We got this exact same thread about 20 times or more.

    3. Check if the subject is already dead. No reason to discuss it to death another time.

    4. Go somewhere else, make your way, play a game where you have fun, where things work out like you want them to. But leave us here that still enjoy the game despite people of you. Move on dont look back and stop spoiling my fun with threads whichs content isnt even from you yourself.

  5. #105
    Deleted
    10 million subscribers doesn't really qualify as "going wrong".

    This just falls into the same "WOW IS DYING" threads/arguments. Absolute rubbish.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    I was thinking why EVE, that has been around longer than WoW can still be going strong and continually increasing the number of players and...
    Because EVE has been expanding its game to China in the last 2 years...

    EVE no longer grows in the WEST either. (they have stats on their servers that show case this all the time).

    Now 350K+ western players is still quite good, but you reach a point in a game where it no longer expands after X years.

    EXCEPT by striking new markets.

    Also 10.000.000 average over 8+ years is not exactly the same as 400K+ over 9 years.

    ----
    WOW has been around now for more than 8 years, as a paid subscription based game. The fact WoW even survived 2 of the most hyped up, most expected FREE to play games in history of MMO's (no subs anymore for SW TOR and GW2) shows magnitudes of gaming pleasure.

    So: what are you even talking about OP ? I agree with the above poster: it is just "another one of those" created threads with the exact same song.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-30 at 09:59 AM.

  7. #107
    Deleted
    I only see one thing on your pitiful little picture you linked, back in Vanilla more people cared about a community and tried to form one.

    Now the most don't care for the community, like the idiot who made this picture and posted it on Reddit, he does not want to be in a server community, hence he stands alone in World of Warcraft. I can link you pictures of 400 People right in MoP who are a community, not the game changed, only the player changed. For the worst I dare say.

    I still have a nice community, everything is like 6 years ago. If you dont want the random LFG or LFR guys dont use the feature, move your ass up and find people the old way. It takes longer but you have the same feeling like 6 years ago.

  8. #108
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Here's a fresh, new topic that's never been covered before.
    I'm amazed, really.
    ---------

    OP, the game went "wrong" when they made it a money machine rather than their personal aim. However, I still find it to be the best game out there, plain simple.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    Sub numbers are always so wrongly used. I'd be very surprised if there were more than 700k-800k unique and real players left in EU+NA.
    Blizzard's (audited by 3rd party) revenue for 2012 is estimated to be around 1.4 billion dollars. (and they hover around that amount of 1.2 to 1.4 billion dollars EACH fxxkng year dependant on their launched boxes).

    So unless they are into some illegal Columbian drug dealing, the figures are clear on this one.

  10. #110
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the OP states, but I do think a major turning point was the introduction of RMT server transfers, name changes etc.

    In the old days (yes, get off my lawn), you couldn't move your character. You couldn't change your name or your faction. If you were a prick to the people you were basically stuck with, there were actual consequences. Funnily enough, analogous to the real world. There was a real social contract of mutual benefit at work.

    Now everything has been streamlined and cut back, there's no accountability and no sense of community. This means a large number of people will fall back on their natural patterns and become thundering douchehammers.

    There are some fantastic people out there, some people that will always be assholes and a lot of people in the middle who try to do the right thing, but don't give that much of a damn about strangers they'll never see again. For all its convenience, WoW's one real failing is that as a consequence of design the social contract has evaporated.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  11. #111
    Simple solution, build your own community. Join a guild if you aren't in one. Are those players you did LFD truly great and fun to play with, say "Hey you're awsome, what's your battle tag". People talk about server community this, server community and how community in this game is dead. I played before LFD and I didn't interact much with the server community, why, cause I had a guild to do stuff with.

  12. #112
    Deleted
    I disagree. The community was horrible in Classic. If you didn't belong with the 'in crowd' of high end raiders, you were nothing. You didn't get a group, you didn't get a guild, you didn't get geared (and in turn didn't get a guild...), you got nothing. If you didn't suck up to those people, or worse, dared to speak against them, you were blacklisted and never got in a group again. You had no chance to play the game if someone 'high up' decided you should be blacklisted, for whatever silly reason. Being in a guild wasn't about friends, it was about sucking up so you got a raid spot, which got you gear, which got you a better guild, etc. etc.

    Today I can stay away from those elitist jerks and still do everything this game has to offer. I can leave a guild with obnoxious people and still raid. And now I can finally join a social guild for the community, friends, interactions and not worry about sucking up to do a raid.

  13. #113
    Deleted
    subjective subject is subjective.
    Back in Vanilla I was in a 40 man raiding guild and they where mostly a bunch of dicks. So much that at some point the guild leader decided he had enough of all the drama and dickiness (especially loot related) and gkicked everyone. We're a little 10 man guild since TBC.

    Family, sure. Though for me was like those family where you groaned every time you had to go to some birthday or during christmas.

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    subjective subject is subjective.
    Back in Classic I was in a 40 man raiding guild and they where mostly a bunch of dicks. So much that at some point the guild leader decided he had enough of all the drama and dickiness and gkicked everyone. We're a little 10 man guild since TBC.

    Family, sure. Though for me was like those family where you groaned every time you had to go to some birthday or during christmas.
    Yeah i dont know where they got the idea that classic was like Heaven.

    Seriously .. i dont.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the OP states, but I do think a major turning point was the introduction of RMT server transfers, name changes etc.

    In the old days (yes, get off my lawn), you couldn't move your character. You couldn't change your name or your faction. If you were a prick to the people you were basically stuck with, there were actual consequences. Funnily enough, analogous to the real world. There was a real social contract of mutual benefit at work.

    Now everything has been streamlined and cut back, there's no accountability and no sense of community. This means a large number of people will fall back on their natural patterns and become thundering douchehammers.

    There are some fantastic people out there, some people that will always be assholes and a lot of people in the middle who try to do the right thing, but don't give that much of a damn about strangers they'll never see again. For all its convenience, WoW's one real failing is that as a consequence of design the social contract has evaporated.
    This is a false argument.

    There are around 10.000 players on one server (non concurrent, about 2-3K concurrent). These players have around 2 or 3 active alts.

    Even at launch you would hardly KNOW a hundred names on that server, let alone their alts, let alone their habits.



    Of course you have a small circle of well known dudes, ... they are called the guild and some other members.

    ---> The idea of having a community on a 10K server is false, because the community is not based on some fake arbitrary number of a server limit.

    Look at EVE: (because of all that empty space) they can cramp 60K concurrent players and so 300K players on one server.

    The main structure for EVE is that guild play (which hardly is 60 people on average).


    So the theory is already false/

    btw: The top 5 prics I have known in WOW was in that Vanilla WOW era because people acted like prics (you were just scumb IF you didn't belong to those few hardcore raiders per server back then). Logical as raiding was the ONLY valid end game available in WOW's first year.

    Players in Vanilla WOW acted way more in an "Elite" way which made them far more "dicks" than these days.


    ----------------------
    I remember the days you had to fill in a 6 page document on some Guild websites to even ask a pass to these guilds
    .
    It was easier to enter as a European Community worker at the EC Brussels ... than to enter these Raiding guilds.

    And after 10 days of waiting you got a "NO, not accepted" result on these elitist websites.

    Terrible times back then in WOW Vanilla.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-30 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #116
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    This is a false argument.

    There are around 10.000 players on one server (non concurrent, about 2-3K concurrent). These players have around 2 or 3 active alts.

    Even at launch you would hardly KNOW a hundred names on that server, let alone their alts, let alone their habits.



    Of course you have a small circle of well known dudes, ... they are called the guild and some other members.

    ---> The idea of having a community on a 10K server is false, because the community is not based on some fake arbitrary number of a server limit.

    Look at EVE: (because of all that empty space) they can cramp 60K concurrent players and so 300K players on one server.

    The main structure for EVE is that guild play (which hardly is 60 people on average).


    So the theory is already false/

    btw: The top 5 prics I have known in WOW was in that Vanilla WOW era because people acted like prics (you were just scumb IF you didn't belong to those few hardcore raiders per server back then). Logical as raiding was the ONLY valid end game available in WOW's first year.
    You know I wasn't saying everyone was bosom buddies. I was saying that there was to a point enough of a community, even with the thousands of players on a server, that people quickly realised that they could become "That guy"... And then the character they'd spent months levelling to 60 wouldn't get into a decent guild. He wouldn't get in the decent raid groups. Hell, good luck to him finding a decent PuG in trade. People remembered who's been an arse. And those people missed out.

    Eventually some people can actually learn that action = consequence. Take away the consequence and people with a bad streak never get conditioned to think before they act in a group setting.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  17. #117
    Fluffy Kitten Taurenburger's Avatar
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    Isn´t fun personal? Some say it got worse, others say it got better... The title is wrong and should have been "Where, for me, WoW went wrong"

  18. #118
    The Patient AnotherInternetOpinion's Avatar
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    This one time, in Vanilla, i did stuff.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    You know I wasn't saying everyone was bosom buddies. I was saying that there was to a point enough of a community, even with the thousands of players on a server, that people quickly realised that they could become "That guy"... And then the character they'd spent months levelling to 60 wouldn't get into a decent guild. He wouldn't get in the decent raid groups. Hell, good luck to him finding a decent PuG in trade. People remembered who's been an arse. And those people missed out.

    Eventually some people can actually learn that action = consequence. Take away the consequence and people with a bad streak never get conditioned to think before they act in a group setting.
    But it doesn't have anything to do with WOW being less attractive at all. Players are replaced much easier with this system.

    Imagine having a dick in Vanilla WOW to do a dungeon with: 30 minutes preparing, flying, 20 minutes first fights and then you got kicked (or he left as a tank) and you all stood there.

    One afternoon wasted, and please don't tell me you knew all these 10.000 guys with their 3 alts.

    So the ONLY valid alternative were guilds as a mainstay, JUST like today. Only today you don't blow an afternoon when one dick plays a dick..

    System is better now.

    Vanilla WOW was far more Elitist raiding (read dick mentality). This system is way better for the more casual player wanting to have fun.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-30 at 10:32 AM.

  20. #120
    Deleted
    the whole world is just full of moaning cunts these days.. we all do it tho ;p

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