[Priest] 5.2 PTR notes

[Deleted]

honestly I'm tempted to call GC out for trolling on those last priest related tweets.

Calling mindbender a burst CD when it actually offers less burst than not taking it.
Calling a random proc a burst CD (it's not even a CD?)
The chakra comment

I just don't even

[zito]

Insanity isn't a burst cd when you have to set up 3 dots to get it. Then it's just a more powerful version of mind flay and you would continue the rotation just like you would even if you didn't pick insanity

[nobodysbaby]

@porter; You wrote holy have by far the best bursthealing of all classes. This was true perhaps once upon a time but not anymore. Check some toplogs and you will see that isnt the case. I get a lil grumpy when many seem to think in this old pattern still;-)

What I believe holy is the best at right now is smart healing. If we keep failing keeping ppl alive during high dmg bosses, it wont help to have 3 disc. I usually specc holy and coh, pom, lw and hymn really helps and complement others toolkit quite well, but I wouldnt say holys strength is "burst" anymore, if it ever was.

And yes, priests could use other designers, for sure...

[Yvaelle]

Insanity isn't a burst cd when you have to set up 3 dots to get it. Then it's just a more powerful version of mind flay and you would continue the rotation just like you would even if you didn't pick insanity

Ya the current version of insanity is the exact opposite of burst - never DPx3 so you can maintain stronger filler spells! Mindbender decreases our burst by 20% (hits for 20% less than shadowfiend), and Surge of Darkness - I guess you can float 2 procs and then use them back to back - but by that same notion and to a far greater degree - you can do the same thing with Mind Blast or Devouring Plague or Shadow Word: Death - not casting our spells so that we can then cast them all back to back isn't really what anyone means by burst - it's a fallacy on GC's part.

[Drye]

They've tweeted that they still don't like where mf:i is and are still working on something different. This is also still the very beginning of ptr. They've only tests a few bosses and they are going very slow with it. People really just need to relax and be happy that blue post are actually responding to randos. They've significantly improved the way they handle things.

[Granyala]

The chakra comment

Making a choice should have consequences. I agree with GC. They also don't want "stance dancing" anymore, which is basically what would happen when they removed th cooldown.

This is also still the very beginning of ptr.

Agreed. Numbercrunching balance patches aren't even there yet, because they are still toying around with mechanics.

Tea, anyone?

[Venaliter]

<twiddles fingers like a cartoon villain>
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/

Join me on the Twitter Terror Offensive and send a barrage of Priest questions to GC. We'll make him suffer ;P

[Kelesti]

Making a choice should have consequences. I agree with GC. They also don't want "stance dancing" anymore, which is basically what would happen when they removed th cooldown.

Why are Holy Priests the only healers that should have these consequences, when obviously consequences didn't work for Tree of Life (kept having to remove them until it was nothing more than a skin)?

Consequences of only having access to half your toolkit at their full potential, the other half being at only 80% strength. No other healer has to "make a choice that should have consequences" (Paladin, Shaman, Mistweaver, Druid, Discipline).


Consequences like this make sense if Holy was benchmarked around being in the wrong chakra, not the right one. We aren't allowed to the best AoE healing in Sanctuary, nor are we allowed to do the best single target healing in Serenity. This is not the problem. The problem is, we are the worst Single Target healers in Sanctuary, and the worst AoE healers in Serenity. Giving up half of our toolkit's effectiveness, to be on par with everyone else, that's consequences... for what, exactly?

[porterFstout]

AT nobodysbaby

ahh, you caught me. I just got back to WoW and imagined that the holy niche handn't changed, or at least the way people described holy hadn't changed. consider me corrected.

[mindp]

Kelesti is about to bust 10k posts, and I like her.
Mod Edit so I'm not adding to the post-count just yet, but thank you! --<3 Kel

[Thallidomaniac]

Why are Holy Priests the only healers that should have these consequences, when obviously consequences didn't work for Tree of Life (kept having to remove them until it was nothing more than a skin)?

Consequences of only having access to half your toolkit at their full potential, the other half being at only 80% strength. No other healer has to "make a choice that should have consequences" (Paladin, Shaman, Mistweaver, Druid, Discipline).


Consequences like this make sense if Holy was benchmarked around being in the wrong chakra, not the right one. We aren't allowed to the best AoE healing in Sanctuary, nor are we allowed to do the best single target healing in Serenity. This is not the problem. The problem is, we are the worst Single Target healers in Sanctuary, and the worst AoE healers in Serenity. Giving up half of our toolkit's effectiveness, to be on par with everyone else, that's consequences... for what, exactly?

But back when Tree of Life still existed, weren't the raid mechanics designed so the "limitations" of tree form were irrelevant? Aside from the self-slow and being unable to cast HT, the devs didn't have the mindset that healers would DPS in downtime, unless you count Pallies meleeing to restore mana with Seal of Wisdom. (now Seal of Insight)

[Deleted]

The initial tree of life limitations were a huge hindrance in pvp, that's why they were removed. Then they decided to do the same thing, but power it up a bit more and make it a huge hindrance in pve as well, chakra was created.

[Kelesti]

But back when Tree of Life still existed, weren't the raid mechanics designed so the "limitations" of tree form were irrelevant? Aside from the self-slow and being unable to cast HT, the devs didn't have the mindset that healers would DPS in downtime, unless you count Pallies meleeing to restore mana with Seal of Wisdom. (now Seal of Insight)

You couldn't Healing Touch (even if you had Nature's Swiftness up), Innervate, Rebirth, or Remove Curse (which was actually a big one, once upon a time). And then you couple in the 20% snare that often could get you killed, and Tree of Life just wasn't worth being in for a lot of fights, not when they were progression at least.

All of these had to be pared back, bit by bit, to make Druids more playable, until Tree of Life no longer was a limitation or a change of... anything. By ToC, it was a talent that gave you 20% off your HoTs whether you were in the form or not, and if you were in it you gave your raid Improved Devotion Aura (6% increased healing taken), a buff covered by pretty much any paladin in existence.

It went from ultra limiting, to here's a skin. Because the limitations while "cool" at the time, and definitely "giving flavor", they just were deemed not fun for any party involved.

...then we get Chakra.

[Deleted]

You couldn't Healing Touch (even if you had Nature's Swiftness up), Innervate, Rebirth, or Remove Curse (which was actually a big one, once upon a time). And then you couple in the 20% snare that often could get you killed, and Tree of Life just wasn't worth being in for a lot of fights, not when they were progression at least.

All of these had to be pared back, bit by bit, to make Druids more playable, until Tree of Life no longer was a limitation or a change of... anything. By ToC, it was a talent that gave you 20% off your HoTs whether you were in the form or not, and if you were in it you gave your raid Improved Devotion Aura (6% increased healing taken), a buff covered by pretty much any paladin in existence.

It went from ultra limiting, to here's a skin. Because the limitations while "cool" at the time, and definitely "giving flavor", they just were deemed not fun for any party involved.

...then we get Chakra.

I remember facepalming hard when the mechanics were announced for this exact reason.

However - I do like the idea. If it worked in a way that has been mentioned so many times before I think chakra would actually be an 'exciting' mechanic. Remove the +healing. Keep the spell changes (HW: Sanc / serenity) renew refresh / CoH CD.
It would give us a reason to be in the chakra and not feel totally gimped when in the wrong stance.

[Yvaelle]

Join me on the Twitter Terror Offensive and send a barrage of Priest questions to GC. We'll make him suffer ;P

Haha

I actually signed up a couple days ago just to send up some priest questions, I think I've sent in like 3 now

The TTO is underway! ^^

[Venaliter]

I think I've sent in like 3 now

The TTO is underway! ^^

Three? Just today, I sent in six or seven. He kept posting on Priests, and I kept saying "wtf!" You can tell the reason Priests don't feel like they are understood is cause the boss of the guy who straight up develops them is clueless.

"Can Shadowpriests have a 2 min CD like other classes?"

"No...that would make classes feel too much unlike."

For serious? I was ready to dial Assassin R Us.

[Blachshma]

Making a choice should have consequences. I agree with GC. They also don't want "stance dancing" anymore, which is basically what would happen when they removed th cooldown.



Agreed. Numbercrunching balance patches aren't even there yet, because they are still toying around with mechanics.

Tea, anyone?

There shouldn't be any stances for holy, simple as that. No cd, no chakra, no stances - nothing. Make one shared cd for Serenity/Sanctuary spells (that would be our "chakra", give it Serenity's cd time, and adjust Sanctuary accordingly - more healing for less time or maybe a utility, the options are limitless), give serenity exclusivity for renew refreshing, make the healing bonus of AoE and ST for all healing spells at the same time (if a nerf is needed for balancing it, so be it).

GC just can't admit he's wrong about chakra, it sounded like a nice concept at the start but has totally failed in execution, it does no benefits. It was meant to make holy priests more flexible and it made the exact oppossite of that.

[zito]

They've tweeted that they still don't like where mf:i is and are still working on something different. This is also still the very beginning of ptr. They've only tests a few bosses and they are going very slow with it. People really just need to relax and be happy that blue post are actually responding to randos. They've significantly improved the way they handle things.

That still doesn't change anything. It has to be on the same level as mindbender and the stupid rng proc. Unless they come up with something new and make insanity base line it is NEVER going to help spriests with burst or anything compared to mindbender or fdcl

---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 01:56 PM ----------

Making a choice should have consequences. I agree with GC. They also don't want "stance dancing" anymore, which is basically what would happen when they removed th cooldown.

Yea consequences, not gimp us to the point of lackluster. You lose 1/4 of your single target healing power in sanctuary and vice versa in serenity, 30 sec cd isn't a consequence its just stupid.

And why is stance dancing bad? It would add another level of depth which its going to add in PvP because 4 set gives holy priests 5 sec cd. Not that you would use sanctuary in PvP anyway so another worthless set bonus.

[Drye]

That still doesn't change anything. It has to be on the same level as mindbender and the stupid rng proc. Unless they come up with something new and make insanity base line it is NEVER going to help spriests with burst or anything compared to mindbender or fdcl[COLOR="red"]

Uhhh... Hello.... How does having an actual viable 3rd talent on the lvl 45 tier not solve anything? Do you even understand what you are saying? Who says it has to help with burst?

[h3lladvocate]

Well, Insanity went from a cool concept to boring in one build! Also, glyph of Binding Heal now baked into binding heal? Yum!