[Priest] 5.2 PTR notes

[Schattengest]

Halo loosing it's only utility.

[mindp]

Halo loosing it's only utility.

Oh so Halo won't heal and do damage now?

[Syenite]

When I run a pug, I honestly don't care which dps spec people choose to play as long as I know whether it's ranged or melee and if they bring the buff I need. Player skill has far more variance than theoretical output when talking about pugs. Actual output is what matters, and spriests are perfectly capable of doing good enough dps in a pug setting.

I saw someone saying there's only 11 dps specs that matter, but that's wrong. There should be at least 13, because shamans and druids can't easily switch dps specs. Not the same gear, and ranged vs melee. And then you'll see that balance druids are almost in the same spot as shadow on most fights and ele is almost always worse. Oh and guess what? You need one of these 3 specs if you want spell haste, unless you have a hunter that doesn't need to bring and has the right pet (good luck with that in a pug)

No, what has been said was that when you compare classes on a given encounter there is no need to look at more than 1 spec for every class = 11 specs being considdered for that sole comparrison. We're not talking about what spec matters and which one doesnt. Best case scenario all 23 dps specs would be considdered viable - but they arent. Most other classes however a fortunate enough to have a different option to chose from. Just because spec X is bad and brings buff Y you dont have to extrapolate and assume that every spec bringing that buff needs to suck. Elemental has been in a bad position overall for a long time, and quite frankly still is (Stopped playing mine when CL became spammable as trashpacks and such became mindsoothingly boring).
But nontheless priests end up getting shat on for a vast majority of the fights, not everyone stick to pugs, lfr and presumably lower end raiding where a theoretical output can be dealt with over the course of 6 weeks of upgrades - progression minded guilds will simply bench whatever they have to in order to beat a given encounter first. And going along those lines a priest is more likely to sit than an equally geared and skilled warlock.

And the gear switching? For all i've noticed my priest is a whole lot happier stacking spirit when healing compared to when surrounded by shadow-ravens. For all the rest gear can be solved over the matter of a few weeks, bad design however cant be solved with gear.

[Yvaelle]

Locks are still well below priests, so presumably not that many.

I don't know how many spriests went to heals versus heals went to spriests, I don't have any way to figure that out. But pretend that many DID... that would just be:

When you say Locks are well below priests, I think you're talking about the total population of WoW right? In which case, Locks have been consistently well below priests every tier of every expansion - because locks are frequently the lowest represented class in the game. That point is totally irrelevant to the conversation, but to indulge it for a moment - their global lower representation as a class in WoW is more likely a function of being an undesirable class concept and having an unenjoyable leveling experience, than it is about their heroic raiding DPS output at max level. If people were rolling their classes based on who did the most DPS at max level in BiS gear, warlocks would consistently see far higher representation than they do - because they are always amongst the top DPS specs in any given tier: there is no correlation between global class representation and heroic raiding performance. When anyone in this thread talks about Shadow's position relative to warlocks, or any other class, we're talking about our DPS.

I can tell you that all pvp disc priests went shadow pvp this season or rerolled, I consider that a catastrophic failing of Disc more than I consider it the dominating potential of Shadow PvP blotting out the potential of Disc (disc pvp is broken).

Which sounds fine by your logic, right? Oh, but it's somehow different because dps or whatever. Spare me.

Swapping between roles - DPS to Heals - is different than swapping between DPS specs - Combat to Subtlety. Imagine you're a 10 man raid, and you are about to pull Heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak, your raid has three healers present, your rogue swaps to Assassination or Combat, your priest knows that Shadow is one of the worst DPS specs for this fight - so they swap to Disc or Holy - you now have 4 healers and not enough DPS, you sit the offspec priest and bring in a pure class off the bench who can top the charts. Now, if your guild is small enough that it doesn't have a bench - or you feel you can carry the spriests DPS because they're your friend - you'll probably retort something about having the spriest stay Shadow. But if you are actually trying to progress, doing so is to the detriment of the raid - a warlock, or mage, or rogue would pull 30% more damage than Shadow. Despite that it should be a multi-dot fight, Halo/Divine Star/Cascade's unscaled AoE damage should cleave well, it doesn't.

I have, and I'm damned sick of hearing nonsense like this. It's ludicrous that you would compare yourself to combat on stone dogs and then cry. It's INSULTING that you won't count all three rogue specs on ANY fight, but the spec you DO choose changes every fight. That's absurd.

It might be insulting if that is what was occurring, but it's not - your post is insulting. Are you suggesting that Shadow should only ever be comparable to the worst Rogue spec for each fight? Combat is better than Subtlety at Stone Dogs because it can cleave into two targets for full single target damage, while Subtlety can only deal single target damage - Combat is clearly the stronger spec on this fight - so all rogues spec Combat for it. Shadow can multi-dot both Dogs for full damage, that multi-dot effect should make us - if not comparable to Combat - pretty close? Or at least, closer to Combat than Subtlety, right? Except Shadow's multi-dot DPS on that fight is just 6k DPS above Subtlety's single target DPS - and remember it's a damage-buffed fight, so that 6k is trivial when you have 100% bonus damage.

We are not comparing ourselves to Combat and saying "we should be as good at multi-dot as Combat is at cleaving", and then turning to Arcane and saying "we should be as good at single target as Arcane is at ST", and then turning to Demonology and saying "we should be as good at AoE as Demonology is". You want me to make comparisons like that? We should be better at multi-dot than subtlety is at single target - but we're barely outperforming single target specs on multi-dot fights. We should be better than "dead" Hunter specs and "dead" Arms spec at single target (or we should at least also be recognized as "dead" at single target).

We should have some type of fight at which we excel (in the top 5 specs), but the only fight we make it into the top 5 is Elegon - and the reason is because we can maintain 80-95% uptime on a 15% damage buff that no other spec is getting on that fight - which then also multiplies with the fights existing damage buff to become a 30% unique damage buff to Shadow during the final phase - despite this, we're 4th, beaten by Arcane's single target damage on a multi-dot fight by 10k DPS (not to mention Fire and Affliction who are multi-dotting). We should be comparable either Affliction or Fire or Balance's multi-dot on multi-dot fights, but since we're not really a multi-dot scaling class anymore - if we are to be a single target class, we should be comparable to the single target DPS of specs which aren't universally considered "dead" specs (like Marksmen and Arms, which we are actually comparable with). There should be something Shadow excels at, we're middle of the pack overall right now because of high Twist of Fate (15% damage buff) uptime on many encounters this tier - but two effects are about to change that dramatically.

The first is that Shadow isn't scaling with gear, next tier, when everyone goes up to 540-ish item level, Shadow's DPS will lag way behind. Second is that when we aren't constantly being fed low HP adds to maintain our 15% damage buff the whole fight, our DPS will be 15% lower than it currently appears on the fights at which we are 'good' right now. A lot of us are not concerned about the present Live tier that you refer to - we're much more concerned with the PTR and 5.2 - Shadow hasn't had a terrible tier, our DPS has been middle of the pack (even if it's by a trick), and our HPS while DPS'ing is of great utility. Next tier will not be remotely so kind - when Shadow's DPS is more comparable to healer DPS than it is to other DPS specs, is it alright with you if we become insulted when Rogues come to our forums and tell us we aren't allowed to breath the same rarefied air as the 'pure' DPS specs on any fight type? ;p

To be the best combat rogue, your gemming is different, your reforging is different and of course you need a different weapon- even two to be optimal- than someone trying to be the best muti rogue. Yes, of course, a pure will respec for the fight- but hybrids do this way more and to way more effect. If a fight is cheesed by an extra healer, or disc is redic on it, that's much more relevant to progression- ESPECIALLY in 10s- than the ability to turn on blade flurry, or whatever.

Imagine you're 10 man guild runs with 3 hybrids in it, a shadowpriest, an elemental shaman and a ret paladin. For starters, as hybrids they are highly unlikely to have the healer specific gear to be competitive with your mainspec healers - since healers likely have priority on healing gear regardless of loot system. Do you swap to 6 healers for some fight (all 3 hybrids swapping to heals)? Do you even swap to 4 for any of them? In practice - in reality - all three of those hybrid DPS probably almost never swap to heals when your mainspec healers show up to raid.

As a rogue, your pointing to a ret paladin and saying "well, he can be a tank or a healer whenever he chooses" - but in a raid environment - no he can't, at least not without your raid feeding them offspec gear for just that contingency. It's easier to point to an elemental or shadowpriest and say "well, they can be a healer whenever they want" - but in a heroic progression guild they can't either, if I swap to Disc and regem and reforge for Spirit - despite having lots of spirit gear I'll likely only have half to two-thirds of what a mainspec healer will have. That determines my output significantly, if your guild really cares about progression - an offspec hybrid is never an acceptable alternative to a mainspec.

You talk about role switching from a pure perspective where all three roles are functionally available to you in a heroic raiding setting - you invest gold and time and knowledge but they are there, but as a hybrid that isn't the case. Not only that, but swapping from the role of DPS to the role of healer on a fight is a harder swap to make than swapping melee from DPS(Subtlety) to melee DPS(Combat), you poke differently but you do all the mechanics the same: not true for hybrids who need to learn the fight from multiple perspectives to be able to perform on it like their other specs (and this learning is not simultaneous). Thus, telling a shadowpriest to go disc isn't just about regemming and reforging, it's about telling them to relearn a fight - where telling a combat rogue to go subtlety is almost solely about regemming and reforging.

Not counting that hunters have a dead spec (more like two) and using that as an excuse to cry about your actually desired and good class is just disgusting. Hunters have serious pve issues, to the point where they've had some issues being included in raids this tier. Priests have not had this issue.

That doesn't mean that Blizzard shouldn't fix shadow in pve- it is definitely under the desired mark unless Bliz had a design change that was pretty profound (and secret). But using numbers like that is ABUSING numbers to try to jam them together to fit the point you already decided on.

Priests are not undesired. Shadow priests are not undesired. They are undertuned in pve, and we're expecting some fixes. But to list yourself as below combat and arms on garalon, and then go over to lei shi and be sad about being under mutilate and fury, is changing your goddamned comparison metric on the fly to try to paint yourself as a bleeding martyr instead of one of the most desired and versatile classes in this game.

All hunter specs are significantly better than Shadow is at single target in 5.0/5.1 - in 5.2 (now that Insanity is fixed) Shadow is lowest by a mile - at what point exactly are we permitted to be concerned? Your subjective experiences with the desirability of priests versus hunters this tier are pretty hard to quantify, our near-passive HPS certainly is a beneificial attribute of a spec whose damage is poised to lag behind - but at what point are you just better off getting a Mistweaver or Disc Priest to DPS and heal if needed? How far behind does our damage need to fall before we're not desired because of our level 90 talents healing and Vampiric Embrace? If your raids healer team can heal the damage - but the shadowpriests HPS is getting there first - does that mean the Spriest is really helping, or just making the healers have marginally more mana when the fight ends? If Shadow's HPS isn't really helping the healers, why are you bringing a spec that does 50k+ less DPS than a pure in 5.2?

[Kalmah]

No, what has been said was that when you compare classes on a given encounter there is no need to look at more than 1 spec for every class = 11 specs being considdered for that sole comparrison.

Shamans and druids cannot switch specs like other classes with multiple dps specs can. They don't fill the same role, they don't have any shared gear between specs.

Acting like moonkins and ele shamans don't exist on fights where they're worse than shadow priests just because they have a melee dps spec is rather dishonest when talking about class balance.

[Deleted]

When you say Locks are well below priests, I think you're talking about the total population of WoW right? In which case, Locks have been consistently well below priests every tier of every expansion - because locks are frequently the lowest represented class in the game. That point is totally irrelevant to the conversation, but to indulge it for a moment - their global lower representation as a class in WoW is more likely a function of being an undesirable class concept and having an unenjoyable leveling experience, than it is about their heroic raiding DPS output at max level. If people were rolling their classes based on who did the most DPS at max level in BiS gear, warlocks would consistently see far higher representation than they do - because they are always amongst the top DPS specs in any given tier: there is no correlation between global class representation and heroic raiding performance. When anyone in this thread talks about Shadow's position relative to warlocks, or any other class, we're talking about our DPS.

I can tell you that all pvp disc priests went shadow pvp this season or rerolled, I consider that a catastrophic failing of Disc more than I consider it the dominating potential of Shadow PvP blotting out the potential of Disc (disc pvp is broken).



Swapping between roles - DPS to Heals - is different than swapping between DPS specs - Combat to Subtlety. Imagine you're a 10 man raid, and you are about to pull Heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak, your raid has three healers present, your rogue swaps to Assassination or Combat, your priest knows that Shadow is one of the worst DPS specs for this fight - so they swap to Disc or Holy - you now have 4 healers and not enough DPS, you sit the offspec priest and bring in a pure class off the bench who can top the charts. Now, if your guild is small enough that it doesn't have a bench - or you feel you can carry the spriests DPS because they're your friend - you'll probably retort something about having the spriest stay Shadow. But if you are actually trying to progress, doing so is to the detriment of the raid - a warlock, or mage, or rogue would pull 30% more damage than Shadow. Despite that it should be a multi-dot fight, Halo/Divine Star/Cascade's unscaled AoE damage should cleave well, it doesn't.




It might be insulting if that is what was occurring, but it's not - your post is insulting. Are you suggesting that Shadow should only ever be comparable to the worst Rogue spec for each fight? Combat is better than Subtlety at Stone Dogs because it can cleave into two targets for full single target damage, while Subtlety can only deal single target damage - Combat is clearly the stronger spec on this fight - so all rogues spec Combat for it. Shadow can multi-dot both Dogs for full damage, that multi-dot effect should make us - if not comparable to Combat - pretty close? Or at least, closer to Combat than Subtlety, right? Except Shadow's multi-dot DPS on that fight is just 6k DPS above Subtlety's single target DPS - and remember it's a damage-buffed fight, so that 6k is trivial when you have 100% bonus damage.

We are not comparing ourselves to Combat and saying "we should be as good at multi-dot as Combat is at cleaving", and then turning to Arcane and saying "we should be as good at single target as Arcane is at ST", and then turning to Demonology and saying "we should be as good at AoE as Demonology is". You want me to make comparisons like that? We should be better at multi-dot than subtlety is at single target - but we're barely outperforming single target specs on multi-dot fights. We should be better than "dead" Hunter specs and "dead" Arms spec at single target (or we should at least also be recognized as "dead" at single target).

We should have some type of fight at which we excel (in the top 5 specs), but the only fight we make it into the top 5 is Elegon - and the reason is because we can maintain 80-95% uptime on a 15% damage buff that no other spec is getting on that fight - which then also multiplies with the fights existing damage buff to become a 30% unique damage buff to Shadow during the final phase - despite this, we're 4th, beaten by Arcane's single target damage on a multi-dot fight by 10k DPS (not to mention Fire and Affliction who are multi-dotting). We should be comparable either Affliction or Fire or Balance's multi-dot on multi-dot fights, but since we're not really a multi-dot scaling class anymore - if we are to be a single target class, we should be comparable to the single target DPS of specs which aren't universally considered "dead" specs (like Marksmen and Arms, which we are actually comparable with). There should be something Shadow excels at, we're middle of the pack overall right now because of high Twist of Fate (15% damage buff) uptime on many encounters this tier - but two effects are about to change that dramatically.

The first is that Shadow isn't scaling with gear, next tier, when everyone goes up to 540-ish item level, Shadow's DPS will lag way behind. Second is that when we aren't constantly being fed low HP adds to maintain our 15% damage buff the whole fight, our DPS will be 15% lower than it currently appears on the fights at which we are 'good' right now. A lot of us are not concerned about the present Live tier that you refer to - we're much more concerned with the PTR and 5.2 - Shadow hasn't had a terrible tier, our DPS has been middle of the pack (even if it's by a trick), and our HPS while DPS'ing is of great utility. Next tier will not be remotely so kind - when Shadow's DPS is more comparable to healer DPS than it is to other DPS specs, is it alright with you if we become insulted when Rogues come to our forums and tell us we aren't allowed to breath the same rarefied air as the 'pure' DPS specs on any fight type? ;p




Imagine you're 10 man guild runs with 3 hybrids in it, a shadowpriest, an elemental shaman and a ret paladin. For starters, as hybrids they are highly unlikely to have the healer specific gear to be competitive with your mainspec healers - since healers likely have priority on healing gear regardless of loot system. Do you swap to 6 healers for some fight (all 3 hybrids swapping to heals)? Do you even swap to 4 for any of them? In practice - in reality - all three of those hybrid DPS probably almost never swap to heals when your mainspec healers show up to raid.

As a rogue, your pointing to a ret paladin and saying "well, he can be a tank or a healer whenever he chooses" - but in a raid environment - no he can't, at least not without your raid feeding them offspec gear for just that contingency. It's easier to point to an elemental or shadowpriest and say "well, they can be a healer whenever they want" - but in a heroic progression guild they can't either, if I swap to Disc and regem and reforge for Spirit - despite having lots of spirit gear I'll likely only have half to two-thirds of what a mainspec healer will have. That determines my output significantly, if your guild really cares about progression - an offspec hybrid is never an acceptable alternative to a mainspec.

You talk about role switching from a pure perspective where all three roles are functionally available to you in a heroic raiding setting - you invest gold and time and knowledge but they are there, but as a hybrid that isn't the case. Not only that, but swapping from the role of DPS to the role of healer on a fight is a harder swap to make than swapping melee from DPS(Subtlety) to melee DPS(Combat), you poke differently but you do all the mechanics the same: not true for hybrids who need to learn the fight from multiple perspectives to be able to perform on it like their other specs (and this learning is not simultaneous). Thus, telling a shadowpriest to go disc isn't just about regemming and reforging, it's about telling them to relearn a fight - where telling a combat rogue to go subtlety is almost solely about regemming and reforging.




All hunter specs are significantly better than Shadow is at single target in 5.0/5.1 - in 5.2 (now that Insanity is fixed) Shadow is lowest by a mile - at what point exactly are we permitted to be concerned? Your subjective experiences with the desirability of priests versus hunters this tier are pretty hard to quantify, our near-passive HPS certainly is a beneificial attribute of a spec whose damage is poised to lag behind - but at what point are you just better off getting a Mistweaver or Disc Priest to DPS and heal if needed? How far behind does our damage need to fall before we're not desired because of our level 90 talents healing and Vampiric Embrace? If your raids healer team can heal the damage - but the shadowpriests HPS is getting there first - does that mean the Spriest is really helping, or just making the healers have marginally more mana when the fight ends? If Shadow's HPS isn't really helping the healers, why are you bringing a spec that does 50k+ less DPS than a pure in 5.2?

Spriests are not the lowest spec. They just require a big amount of gear to jump up the meters, but they keep scaling the same amount with gear. A lot of classes start strong but their scaling tier to tier is pretty low. I do agree that Spriests need a buff in single target, since the thing 'but multidotters shouldn't be good at single target' is bs since they let warlocks, and boomkins spin out of control compared to spriests.

The solarity change seems quite good, 120k mindflay ticks is quite nice, and u can fill about 3 mindflays per DP. I think it's pretty close to mindbender now.

[Deleted]

Shamans and druids cannot switch specs like other classes with multiple dps specs can. They don't fill the same role, they don't have any shared gear between specs.

Acting like moonkins and ele shamans don't exist on fights where they're worse than shadow priests just because they have a melee dps spec is rather dishonest when talking about class balance.

Every healer has only 1 DPS spec, with druid and shaman 2 but not gear compatible. However they can reuse the gear for healing spec just like us.

Of the tank hybrids, DK and warrior have 2 DPS specs, 1 of which is viable. The other classes able to tank also have a healing spec and are already covered in the discussion.

To solve the druid/shaman problem we can call them unique so they're a separate class in the equation. Which means we have 13 specs to compare, with the notion if retri or windwalker is bad, they have a problem just like the shadow priest. A windwalker can respec or reroll brewmaster which is approx same effort as shadow respec or reroll healer or vice versa. Retri however cannot reuse their strength DPS gear for tanking, and cannot use the gear for holy either. If retri is bad DPS on a fight, they have the biggest issue of all classes.

We're second to that together with monks, druids, and shamans. How are spriest doing compared to these hybrids? Did Blizzard reintroduce a hybrid tax? Did shadow priests who oppose healing role roll the wrong class?

[Deleted]

Every healer has only 1 DPS spec, with druid and shaman 2 but not gear compatible. However they can reuse the gear for healing spec just like us.

Of the tank hybrids, DK and warrior have 2 DPS specs, 1 of which is viable. The other classes able to tank also have a healing spec and are already covered in the discussion.

To solve the druid/shaman problem we can call them unique so they're a separate class in the equation. Which means we have 13 specs to compare, with the notion if retri or windwalker is bad, they have a problem just like the shadow priest. A windwalker can respec or reroll brewmaster which is approx same effort as shadow respec or reroll healer or vice versa. Retri however cannot reuse their strength DPS gear for tanking, and cannot use the gear for holy either. If retri is bad DPS on a fight, they have the biggest issue of all classes.

We're second to that together with monks, druids, and shamans. How are spriest doing compared to these hybrids? Did Blizzard reintroduce a hybrid tax? Did shadow priests who oppose healing role roll the wrong class?

Since paladin tanks favor haste/mastery, same as ret, your quote isn't entirely correct.

Swap the trinkets and wep/shield out and put on ret gear and you can tank just fine with it.

[Deleted]

Spriests are not the lowest spec. They just require a big amount of gear to jump up the meters, but they keep scaling the same amount with gear. A lot of classes start strong but their scaling tier to tier is pretty low. I do agree that Spriests need a buff in single target, since the thing 'but multidotters shouldn't be good at single target' is bs since they let warlocks, and boomkins spin out of control compared to spriests.

We already proven in some thread here, with some simple algebra, how the gear scaling compared to our competitors is two linear lines. The gap between those becomes wider.

Consider a cloth piece drops which increases their average damage of the warlock by 1k. The warlock currently does average 100k damage. With the same gear, the priest does for example only 90k damage, and because the priest scales less good than the warlock, the average damage of the cloth piece is only increased by 0,9k. Your loot council has gotta be stupid giving the piece of gear to the priest, given the warlock benefits more from it (there are of course exceptions like gearing up the priest sitter cause we need the utility or cause we got the rest all geared up or DKP or whatever but the basic point remains the same).

The solarity change seems quite good, 120k mindflay ticks is quite nice, and u can fill about 3 mindflays per DP. I think it's pretty close to mindbender now.

What's solarity?

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 03:51 AM ----------

Since paladin tanks favor haste/mastery, same as ret, your quote isn't entirely correct.

Swap the trinkets and wep/shield out and put on ret gear and you can tank just fine with it.

Haste?! Oh wow, I didn't know that. Been a long time since I played paladin (other than holy). Well that is good news, it means all hybrids are in the same boat. Every hybrid has at least 2 specs which share almost the same loot and stats meaning with minor adaptations (which aren't minor during progress on heroic) they're able to perform (provided they can play these specs).

Still curious about those questions I put forth...

[Venaliter]

Spriests are not the lowest spec. They just require a big amount of gear to jump up the meters, but they keep scaling the same amount with gear.

I'm sorry, dude, but with this sentence, you lost all credibility. Spriests, aside from VT,SWP and MF have some- perhaps the LOWEST- dps scaling in the game.

The solarity change seems quite good, 120k mindflay ticks is quite nice, and u can fill about 3 mindflays per DP. I think it's pretty close to mindbender now.

I assume you mean Insanity. And once again, you throw away credibility. The new insanity iteration is a 66% nerf over the old one.

While your discussion is welcome, I would politely ask you to be better informed.

[Deleted]

I smell pve buffs for s priests incoming! (blue post)

[Venaliter]

I smell pve buffs for s priests incoming! (blue post)

Shadow will be OK in PvE in 5.2. Holy may a bit better with a bit more leeway on mana. Disc is dead in both aspects of the game, as of now.

[Adelphia]

Has anyone got/found any PVE DPS simulations done on the PTR? I'd like to see how we're currently competing against the likes of Warlock/Mage. The reason I mention these two is because currently they are killing the meters compared to SP's, well from my experience anyway. I know the class is constantly changing however, and it's good that (from recent blue posts) they have noticed the PVP nerfs are affecting our PVE output. It would still be interesting to see all the same if anyone has any links.

[Deleted]

Nothing has changed for SP, we only got nerfed. Now insanity is crap, mage got their ramp up adjusted(don't know if its a nerf or buff- should be nerf...), locks got a 2.75% nerf on their overall dps on single target. Monks got a total remake of their mastery(which by the way worked like SP at some degree), new talents. SP got the worse possible t15 bonuses, a nerf(mind spike glyph) and blizz doesn't seem to give fuk all. So if you add this to the fact that every one of these classes scale 20% better than us, I don't see how you can expect to see any good changes in terms of simulation.

My sub is ending in 2 weeks, I don't think I'll be renewing it, as things go. Blizzard clearly doesn't give fuk all about us, they aren't even up front. I'm tired of crying since beta, they don't want us to be good. Fine. But don't freaking expect me to pay for this bullshitz anymore.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, dude, but with this sentence, you lost all credibility. Spriests, aside from VT,SWP and MF have some- perhaps the LOWEST- dps scaling in the game.



I assume you mean Insanity. And once again, you throw away credibility. The new insanity iteration is a 66% nerf over the old one.

While your discussion is welcome, I would politely ask you to be better informed.

Just like you lost all your credibility by saying the current insanity is a 66% nerf over the old one, the actually nerf % is 6x smaller. Just sayin.

[Deleted]

No, it is a 66% nerf, or nearly, since you would have been doing insanity pretty much all the time. Now you will only be doing it when you have 3 orbs, instead of one, so you will only use insanity 1/3 of the time you would have. So thats a 66% nerf on the spell itself, because you are only using it 1/3 of the time. But it is a bit less than a 66% nerf, when you add the fact that you gained 2 gcd per DP used, but its still a major nerf to the previous iteration, understandable, but this new iteration is just a bad talent now, we are already depending too much on dp3, having a talent only usable during that short frame time is even worse... And this talent no longer really benefit from haste anymore... You might gain 1-2 tics of insanity during BL, but other than that, its a pretty bad talent.

DP3 is horrible concept because it is not scaling with haste(apart from haste cap on the dot). Having a talent that has the exact same problem is like fuking us twice.

[Yvaelle]

Just like you lost all your credibility by saying the current insanity is a 66% nerf over the old one, the actually nerf % is 6x smaller. Just sayin.

No it's not. Previously, we were using a DPx1 rotation to maintain ~90% uptime on the 100% Insanity buff, after the nerf, we have to build up to DPx3 to get the 100% buff, so we only maintain the buff about ~20% of the time. My napkin math suggests it's never justifiable in the current build on any fight type - but I'll wait for Twintop's better math to rule on that more decisively.

[Venaliter]

Just like you lost all your credibility

Looks like it's unanimous, Hika. Either you can't do simple math, have no knowledge of Priest mechanics, or are trolling. Leave the thread.

[Deleted]

GC, it is obvious that the nerf to Mindspike glyph is a loss on dps even if you are just standing and doing damage.
This is a legit PvE nerf, but a very, very small one and as I said, we haven't made any PvE numbers adjustments to anyone yet. This one is easy to fix without PvP risk and it makes a glyph less mandatory for its DPS benefits.

Yet it also makes the glyph completely useless for PvE. It lowers the value of FDCL, and we lose free MBl (+DP) during movement. Has anyone calculated how big this nerf is DPS-wise?

[Deleted]

the glyph used to be 1-2k dps I think.