Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Deleted]

Fel Flame isn't that bad compared to MG as well, as long as you extend both your DoTs. I don't agree that KjC is a "horrid design". If it wasn't a passive but had some kind of charge systems (say you could cast 1 spell per stack on the move gaining 1 stack every 20 seconds with a maximum of 3 stacks) it could have a lower penalty (maybe even none at all). I think that with such a charge system it would still be useful but not overpowered to the point of being the only option.

I do think (and I have been saying this since the very start of the beta) that AV is a crappy design, you get rewarded for standing in the bad. And it is hard to balance. AV should be completely reworked into something that can rival KjC.

[villie]

"Warlock
- Blood Fear is now Blood Horror and is a 4 sec horror effect instead of a fear. It otherwise works as it does on the PTR."

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=68#1345

They still read these forums for sure.

Finally they are seeing sense, now just need to sort the issue about pets eating the effect, GC has commented that they could make pets immune, tho BM hunter pets would wreck us still with Kill Command not requiring los.......Still reckon it should be castable on an enemy and undispellable so we can choose who gets horror'd..

Thoughts??

[Grizelda]

We lost blanket silence again? Mages are keeping it? Did I read that correctly?

[Nerraw]

We lost blanket silence again? Mages are keeping it? Did I read that correctly?

We got it back too.

[Zathrendar]

We lost blanket silence again? Mages are keeping it? Did I read that correctly?

No, it looks like they're putting datamined notes in a more official format. In fact the nerf is being crossed out i.e. reverted.

[nightfalls]

This is a bit of a tangent from the Demonology thread, but does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

[Jessicka]

This is a bit of a tangent from the Demonology thread, but does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

Doubt it's intended, take a look at Corruption, it can probably be fixed in the same way. And yeah, I'd rather not play a class balanced too much around gaming mechanics, because it's not something that's always possible.

[Deleted]

Does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

In fact, this issue is known since the beginning of the MoP ptr, so Devs can't ignore this, so it's intended, even the shadowflame's clipping have been discussed.

Check on the internet to learn how to play your warlock, is one of the first gentle Ghostcrawler's advice.

Maybe that's why demo is below Destro and Aff, because you have to master it to play it.... but in fact it's just a simple " /macro " adjustement. Nothing complex or hard to play.

[Deleted]

This is a bit of a tangent from the Demonology thread, but does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

Yes i think its very good mechanic - its a DPS increase when we are far far behind affli. Asking for change this = asking for nerf. Without changing this difference between affli and demo in 5.2 will be higher - so really we dont need any more nerfs.

Lets keep demo unchanged - thats all we need.

[Deleted]

This is a bit of a tangent from the Demonology thread, but does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

I'm fine with it I think, I like having such a direct form of "good play > bad play" that goes beyond merely executing the rotation well. I do worry a bit about it though, I hated T12/13s Moonwell and pet swapping bull, it killed all enthusiasm I had for demonology in that tier - HOG weaving isn't anywhere near as bad as that was, but it's reminiscent enough to make me hope it doesn't go back in that direction.

[Grizelda]

Mastery gear swapping pre pull, Moon well chalice pet swapping, be in melee range for SF but you're still responsible for popping traps on Rags...

Good times, good times.

It's cool when there's a little something extra you can do to distinguish yourself. A higher skill cap version of the rotation.

[Count Zero]

Mastery gear swapping pre pull, Moon well chalice pet swapping, be in melee range for SF but you're still responsible for popping traps on Rags...

Good times, good times.

It's cool when there's a little something extra you can do to distinguish yourself. A higher skill cap version of the rotation.

I'm all for higher skill caps, but only when they're not counter-intuitive. Un-intuitive I can live with. Not sure where I'd place this HoG thing on that spectrum ... but pet-twisting was certainly counter-intuitive.

[nightfalls]

Yes i think its very good mechanic - its a DPS increase when we are far far behind affli. Asking for change this = asking for nerf. Without changing this difference between affli and demo in 5.2 will be higher - so really we dont need any more nerfs.

Well obviously if I asked to change this, I'd also ask to slightly increase shadowflame damage to compensate. This actually wouldn't affect AoE versus single target, or PvP for that matter. But do you think being required to do this trick versus just getting a single charge of HOG (glyph can be changed to increasing the slow versus an increased CD) that deals more damage proportionally, removing some skill cap, is a good thing?

I'm all for higher skill caps, but only when they're not counter-intuitive. Un-intuitive I can live with. Not sure where I'd place this HoG thing on that spectrum ... but pet-twisting was certainly counter-intuitive.

That's why I dislike the mechanic - not saying the DPS should be nerfed, but let's say drop down to one charge, and increase Shadowflame damage (base) by 100%. Perhaps allow the Meta to still snapshot it, you just don't have to game the two charges, or increase it by 150% and don't let it benefit from Meta.

[Jessicka]

That's why I dislike the mechanic - not saying the DPS should be nerfed, but let's say drop down to one charge, and increase Shadowflame damage (base) by 100%. Perhaps allow the Meta to still snapshot it, you just don't have to game the two charges, or increase it by 150% and don't let it benefit from Meta.

Actually, the stacking part is fine, I misunderstood your first post. It's the Meta snapshotting that's feels like a bit of an oversight, but as I said elsewhere it's something that will normally happen naturally as you work to ensure your Meta uptime happens within a decent window.

[Deleted]

That's why I dislike the mechanic - not saying the DPS should be nerfed, but let's say drop down to one charge, and increase Shadowflame damage (base) by 100%. Perhaps allow the Meta to still snapshot it, you just don't have to game the two charges, or increase it by 150% and don't let it benefit from Meta.

Oh, we're talking about the 2 charges and not the meta snapshot?

I'm even more fine with 2 charges, that was something I figured out you'd be trying to do just by looking at the ability, it just made sense to me. That I'd call intuitive.

Having to switch into meta after the cast, but before it landed was the bit I figured was slightly less intuitive, though a grey area enough that I wouldn't place it anywhere near pet weaving and MWC antics.

[Micke]

This is a bit of a tangent from the Demonology thread, but does anybody at all feel like "HoG-weaving" (2 charges + meta-snapshot-gaming of shadowflame) is actually a good mechanic?

I do not think it is a good mechanic, the double charge nor the stance dancing. It is right up there with the ridiculous soul fire mana costs, ToC not scaling with haste, chaos wave being useless, hellfire health cost and the 10 sec cd on meta. This spec has design/mechanic problems the other two specs don't even come close to.

[lichanator]

I do not think it is a good mechanic, the double charge nor the stance dancing. It is right up there with the ridiculous soul fire mana costs, ToC not scaling with haste, chaos wave being useless, hellfire health cost and the 10 sec cd on meta. This spec has design/mechanic problems the other two specs don't even come close to.

Yes, I agree with all of this. Bring back the damage to chaos wave, nerf it for PVP if your worried. Remove the cd on Meta, it's stupid. Let us start with more fury then 200, would be a good start. Affliction gets to start with 4 shards, let destro start with 2 or 3 and give us 400 to 500 Fury to start.

[Deleted]

Well obviously if I asked to change this, I'd also ask to slightly increase shadowflame damage to compensate. This actually wouldn't affect AoE versus single target, or PvP for that matter. But do you think being required to do this trick versus just getting a single charge of HOG (glyph can be changed to increasing the slow versus an increased CD) that deals more damage proportionally, removing some skill cap, is a good thing?

No i think that there should be some skill cap, and yes i know that if ppl would ask for chaning HoG they would also ask for increase damage to compensate but its not about what we would ask but what blizzard would do. Also remember that they nerfed a lot AoE Burst dmg for demo locks, theres no chance that they would bring it back.

[nightfalls]

No i think that there should be some skill cap, and yes i know that if ppl would ask for chaning HoG they would also ask for increase damage to compensate but its not about what we would ask but what blizzard would do. Also remember that they nerfed a lot AoE Burst dmg for demo locks, theres no chance that they would bring it back.

Yeah, my idea behind Shadowflame buffing to compensate (rather than say buffing the straight damage) is that it's a sustained compensation but doesn't increase burst (both for PvE and PvP). The main thing with Shadowflame for PvP if I remember right is the slow, not the ticks, and that's something that can be adjusted separately via the glyph.

On the skill cap it's a valid point, obviously there's a fine line between overly clunky and stupidly simple/boring, it's where it lies that's debatable.

[xskarma]

Allright, new build, tooltip change for Blood Horror and a change to Eye of Kilrogg when glyphed.

Talents

Blood Horror While active, any time an enemy melee attack deals damage to the caster they will become afflicted by Fear for up to until cancelled. Warlock, the enemy will run in horror for up to 4 sec. Blood Fear lasts 60 sec. Blood Horror lasts 60 sec.


Minor Glyphs

Glyph of Eye of Kilrogg The casting Warlock must be within line of sight of the Eye of Kilrogg to place the Demonic Circle.