Heroic Raiding

[Dubalicious]

break into the heroic raiding scene, you can.

Doesn't "breaking in" imply that you have done some heroic raiding *PROGRESSION*?

In my definition it does, so you actually haven't broken onto the heroic raiding scene yet. Make sure to check back though, the bosses definitely get harder!

[isadorr]

Difficult for you maybe, but so far from what i've seen, they are laughably easy.

Also, how is my opinion of not liking pandas biased based on this thread topic? (the logic of some people just astounds me at times)

Ya top guilds mentioned the ease of the heroic bosses in the first part of the tier as they were one or two shotting heroic bosses that were end of the zone bosses. I think blizzard is having a real hard time tuning bosses for people who are pretty bad to progress and also keep them from quitting on heroic modes.

[Mawnix]

I've quoted myself just so people who keep lavishing hate on me will quit and calm the f down. "so far from what i've seen"

Does that imply that EVERY heroic boss is easy? No.

Does that imply that I have killed EVERY heroic boss? No.

Where people fathom up these half-wit ideas in their brains is beyond me. Read people.


Also:

Doesn't me joining a guild of people that I have never before met, raid heroic raids with them on the second week that I have joined, at an item level of 482 say anything about their trust in my skill as a raider?

Would you invite a ilvl 482 player into your guild, having never met them before... them not putting in any sort of application for guild membership in... Would you invite a player like that into your guild? Most likely not. Most heroic guilds are complete assholes about guild recruitment and require astronomical amounts of gear and experience before they invite a person. So just think about that. I have already admitted to not having been in the heroic raiding scene since TBC.

My old guild did that and they're progressing perfectly fine through content.

Multiple guilds do and they progress perfectly through content.

The more "uptight" guilds use applications to be sure you can be trusted.

But some don't.

And I read your post.

You said from what you saw, they seemed easy.

But if you're making that assumption, without even doing the heroics, that can't be true..

Because you haven't experienced them..

The entire reason people keep their mouths shut, or should, before they've experienced something is because they look idiotic when they make one claim, and then are completely wrong about what they said.

I'm not per say calling you idiotic, though. That'd be rude.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 10:36 PM ----------

So you cherry picked the encounters that changed the least and / or were easiest - you're not doing much to change your reputation for bias statements.

Cleared MV, Blade Lord, Wind Lord and Garalon on heroic so far, working on Vizier and should have that down as soon as people stop being idiots.

Overall, the tier has been one of the most enjoyable raiding tiers I've ever done, possibly the best and I'm only half way through it. As long as blizzard keep up this quality and don't go nerfing heroic modes before the tier is over, I'm going to be a very happy raider this expansion, I'd almost lost hope with raiding after FL and DS, so it's a nice turnaround.

^This to add to my point.

[Keoren]

I find the heroic encounters to be pretty interesting outside of MSV. Those turned out to be more of a joke in comparison to HoF and Terrace.

MSV was actually a quite interesting raid on heroic when it was first released. It could definitely stand on its own until gear turned it into what now seems like an old tier already. Tier 14 wouldn't have been nearly as good without it.

This is coming from a 25-man perspective at least.

[isadorr]

So you cherry picked the encounters that changed the least and / or were easiest - you're not doing much to change your reputation for bias statements.

Cleared MV, Blade Lord, Wind Lord and Garalon on heroic so far, working on Vizier and should have that down as soon as people stop being idiots.

Overall, the tier has been one of the most enjoyable raiding tiers I've ever done, possibly the best and I'm only half way through it. As long as blizzard keep up this quality and don't go nerfing heroic modes before the tier is over, I'm going to be a very happy raider this expansion, I'd almost lost hope with raiding after FL and DS, so it's a nice turnaround.

I think they made most of the heroic enounters pretty easy if you have a solid group as blizzard couldnt tune them too difficult or people would get stuck quitting or QQ until it is nerfed. They added the quantity of bosses to keep casuals and social guilds happy while still attempting to offer a challenge for others but all in all the heroic bosses werent that bad. The most difficult bosses were just glitches and after they were fixed were taken down the same day from various guilds. It is getting harder to recruit for progression, that is for sure.

[Mawnix]

I think they made most of the heroic enounters pretty easy if you have a solid group as blizzard couldnt tune them too difficult or people would get stuck quitting or QQ until it is nerfed. They added the quantity of bosses to keep casuals and social guilds happy while still attempting to offer a challenge for others but all in all the heroic bosses werent that bad. The most difficult bosses were just glitches and after they were fixed were taken down the same day from various guilds. It is getting harder to recruit for progression, that is for sure.

Exactly.

There are certain Heroics that will always be difficult, and others easy.

I just find it odd encounters like Elegon and Windlord are actually easier than the Normal Mode, per say.

But the most difficult bosses like Will of the Emperor, Empress, and Sha of Fear, weren't glitched. I think Empress just needed more tuning so 10 mans didn't feel like they had to bring a 4th healer since it was so healing intensive.

It makes sense however that those fights would be the hardest because they're the last encounters in each of the raids.

[Jaylock]

People came in here doing that because you're not listening to their opinions, like I just said. Your statement to it is the whole "herp derp, where is your heroic <insert xyz boss here> kill???"

Because it's a solid argument.

You can't call it that type of argument when you can't even argue against it, and then try and divert your post to a personal attack on yourself, when you're not debating this with me further.

Now, Jaylock, stay on topic please, and argue my point. How is it a "herp derp" argument.

Its a herpa derp argument because its pulled every time someone claims this game is retardedly easy regardless of what difficulty an encounter is done on. I get that player skill varies enormously, but to say that the game has got more difficult since TBC is just a complete joke of an argument. Why should someone have to link you an end tier boss heroic kill to prove to you that they think think this game is easy? Just because one fight is marginally dificult, (ie spine of deathwing), does it make the failure of the expansion negated? No.

It all comes down to the philosophy direction blizzard has been taking with Mists of Failure, and previous expansions after TBC.

I posted my kills in heroic mode to prove a point: The game is easy. Its easy to break into heroic raiding if a person really wants to. I'm tired of all the arguments that its difficult to raid because of time commitment, skill, whatever xyz argument is made.

It all comes down to the will of the person, and wether or not they have the desire to do something. The desire is not there for people who claim the end game is hard and want to see nerfs and such. Period.

[isadorr]

My old guild did that and they're progressing perfectly fine through content.

Multiple guilds do and they progress perfectly through content.

The more "uptight" guilds use applications to be sure you can be trusted.

But some don't.

And I read your post.

You said from what you saw, they seemed easy.

But if you're making that assumption, without even doing the heroics, that can't be true..

Because you haven't experienced them..

The entire reason people keep their mouths shut, or should, before they've experienced something is because they look idiotic when they make one claim, and then are completely wrong about what they said.

I'm not per say calling you idiotic, though. That'd be rude.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 10:36 PM ----------



^This to add to my point.

What it comes down to is opinion. You could say you progressed perfectly fine through content while someone else may view your progression as horrible. I have a friend GM who wants to be casual/social and still progress yet he cant understand why i would have heroic content cleared while he hasnt even cleared normal modes. It pretty much comes down to that and also the people he raids with are horrible and he didnt realize that even until he ran a alt run with the guild i am in and couldnt believe the numbers people were putting up.

Some people have no idea how bad their raiders are until they run with better players and watch them walk through content. We cleared normal with 8 heroics in the alt run and he couldnt believe it. They have been stuck on Empress for 3 months so you do have to change your guild depending on what you want to accomplish in a tier or if you want to be truly competitive.

[Squirl]

Guys, I saw my first car today. It was red, so all cars are red. No, I haven't seen any other cars and I don't have to see them to know they're all red.

You can see how far along everyone is in their progression by going to wowprogress instead of starting a thread to stroke your own ignorantly inflated epeen.

[Mawnix]

Its a herpa derp argument because its pulled every time someone claims this game is retardedly easy regardless of what difficulty an encounter is done on. I get that player skill varies enormously, but to say that the game has got more difficult since TBC is just a complete joke of an argument. Why should someone have to link you an end tier boss heroic kill to prove to you that they think think this game is easy? Just because one fight is marginally dificult, (ie spine of deathwing), does it make the failure of the expansion negated? No.

It all comes down to the philosophy direction blizzard has been taking with Mists of Failure, and previous expansions after TBC.

I posted my kills in heroic mode to prove a point: The game is easy. Its easy to break into heroic raiding if a person really wants to. I'm tired of all the arguments that its difficult to raid because of time commitment, skill, whatever xyz argument is made.

It all comes down to the will of the person, and wether or not they have the desire to do something. The desire is not there for people who claim the end game is hard and want to see nerfs and such. Period.

You're claiming the game is easy when you haven't downed all the content and thus cannot judge it because you haven't done it.

Due to that fact yours, yes your own, argument and statement are invalid and have no credibility.

You also show more bias by saying Mists of Failure. Mists surged subscribers back over 10 million, and who knows, maybe they're at 200 million subscribers on Friday (this is an exaggeration and if you take it seriously just..yeah).

You posted your kills in Heroic mode which aren't 16/16, making the game not easy.

If it were easy, and I go back to my first point, you would have every single ounce of content in the game currently, Heroic Dungeons, Challenge Mode DUngeons, every single Faction to exalted, Heroic Raids trumped, etc. done.

I've made my point. If you still can't see it, I can't can.

[Jaylock]

So you cherry picked the encounters that changed the least and / or were easiest - you're not doing much to change your reputation for bias statements.

Cleared MV, Blade Lord, Wind Lord and Garalon on heroic so far, working on Vizier and should have that down as soon as people stop being idiots.

Overall, the tier has been one of the most enjoyable raiding tiers I've ever done, possibly the best and I'm only half way through it. As long as blizzard keep up this quality and don't go nerfing heroic modes before the tier is over, I'm going to be a very happy raider this expansion, I'd almost lost hope with raiding after FL and DS, so it's a nice turnaround.



Calling heroics easy after doing this tiers equivalent of Morchock will get that response, what more do you expect? You can't go claiming Rhyolith / Beth / Ragnaros heroic easy just because Shannox is trivial, raid encounters have varying difficulty in the bosses available, both on normal and heroic. You just make yourself look like a tool when you suggest heroics are easy this tier when guilds like Method are saying it's one of the hardest tiers blizzard have ever put out.

I never said I was a top echelon heroic raider did i? Also, you must have a hard time reading because clearly I said "so far from what I have seen" Also I never claimed that ALL the bosses were easy.

Wow, that was easy to break your whole post with a few sentences. Next.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 10:47 PM ----------

Guys, I saw my first car today. It was red, so all cars are red. No, I haven't seen any other cars and I don't have to see them to know they're all red.

You can see how far along everyone is in their progression by going to wowprogress instead of starting a thread to stroke your own ignorantly inflated epeen.

Says the fearless!

[Grym]

I also found this tier's HC rather enjoyable, until

Amber Shaper
Empress
Protectors

Amber is not a hard fight, just the strategy we use is EXTREMELY boring, no dps for 6 sodding minutes....
Empress, 4 healers and I am required to throw heals as Elemental Shaman, enough said.
Protector, the current boss we are bashing our head against a brick wall with, spent 2 nights on it and so far we got last Protectors to about 40% at best....

I have not seen it yet but I can safely assume I won't call Sha "enjoyable"

[isadorr]

Its a herpa derp argument because its pulled every time someone claims this game is retardedly easy regardless of what difficulty an encounter is done on. I get that player skill varies enormously, but to say that the game has got more difficult since TBC is just a complete joke of an argument. Why should someone have to link you an end tier boss heroic kill to prove to you that they think think this game is easy? Just because one fight is marginally dificult, (ie spine of deathwing), does it make the failure of the expansion negated? No.

It all comes down to the philosophy direction blizzard has been taking with Mists of Failure, and previous expansions after TBC.

I posted my kills in heroic mode to prove a point: The game is easy. Its easy to break into heroic raiding if a person really wants to. I'm tired of all the arguments that its difficult to raid because of time commitment, skill, whatever xyz argument is made.



It all comes down to the will of the person, and wether or not they have the desire to do something. The desire is not there for people who claim the end game is hard and want to see nerfs and such. Period.

I have to agree with all of this. Raiding in a true progression guild is different and there are expectations that have to be met to keep your roster spot. Dps, healers and threat for tanks, if you do the numbers you should and dont die to dumb shit, you can raid heroic progression. If you can not do the numbers you should or you die to dumb shit then yes i could see why some might ridicule progression guilds but it isnt the raiding guild, it is your lack of play that is holding you back.

I have never really understood the talk of so much time needed, a xpac hits, you should already k now the class changes, you regem.reforge, possibly respec, put the new rotation in your bars, and then you are ready to go. Yes in heroic progression you raid more at the beginning but you also clear 100 times faster than most and are done with the tier before some even clear half, so the rest of the tier is alt run on the weekend along with a one night a week raid schedule until the next patch. Compare that to casual or not so talented progression guilds that will be raiding 2-4 times a week the whole xpac trying to clear what you did in months before them.

[Shmeh]

How many of you have at least attempted a heroic raid boss this expansion? Just curious to see where everybody is at in terms of raiding progression.

And while we are discussing heroic raiding, I did my first heroic raid last night, and it wasnt all that bad, the encounters were actually really easy, not much different from normal, although we didnt do stone gaurd (it was a bad combination) / spirit kings / will on heroic.

Elegon was probably the easiest heroic i've ever done from any expansion. Exactly the same, easy as a melee dps.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4851&e=5270

I currently play:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...llana/advanced

Edit: Soooo many jelly Jaylock haters... kinda sad imo.

With the gear that people have now dps checks (Garajal/Elegon) are a joke, even the aoe for adds on Feng is significantly easier than it was before. The fights you did last night are the easiest heroics in MSV. You skipped heroic stone guards, which requires some player skill.

Heroic Stone Guards, Spirit Kings and Will of the Emperor are execution fights that gear won't carry you through. I'm curious to see how you do on them, especially since your guild skipped Stone Guards because "it was a hard comp."

[Jaylock]

You're claiming the game is easy when you haven't downed all the content and thus cannot judge it because you haven't done it.

Due to that fact yours, yes your own, argument and statement are invalid and have no credibility.

You also show more bias by saying Mists of Failure. Mists surged subscribers back over 10 million, and who knows, maybe they're at 200 million subscribers on Friday (this is an exaggeration and if you take it seriously just..yeah).

You posted your kills in Heroic mode which aren't 16/16, making the game not easy.

If it were easy, and I go back to my first point, you would have every single ounce of content in the game currently, Heroic Dungeons, Challenge Mode DUngeons, every single Faction to exalted, Heroic Raids trumped, etc. done.

I've made my point. If you still can't see it, I can't can.

1) I havent experienced all the heroic content yet.. Lol i havent even experienced all the normal content yet.

2) I never said EVERY boss encounter is easy, thus nullifying everything you said because you write on the premise and judgement of me that you think, I think that all heroic encounters are easy.

3) With blizzards track record, I have no reason to doubt that the future content of this game will be easy. Just because you have a difficult time with something, doesn't mean others will.

4) You made no point, only continue to make a fool of yourself with your baseless arguments.

[Grym]

Some are easy, I totally agree.

But some fight are hard, at least we find them hard, so let me know once you experience more of the HC contents.

1 thing to clarify though, the 3 bosses you downed with them, were they progression boss or were they farm boss? What is their current progression boss?

[Jaylock]

With the gear that people have now dps checks (Garajal/Elegon) are a joke, even the aoe for adds on Feng is significantly easier than it was before. The fights you did last night are the easiest heroics in MSV. You skipped heroic stone guards, which requires some player skill.

Heroic Stone Guards, Spirit Kings and Will of the Emperor are execution fights that gear won't carry you through. I'm curious to see how you do on them, especially since your guild skipped Stone Guards because "it was a hard comp."

I take back my hard comp comment, and I will say that because of time constraints, we decided to skip it to conform to the time constraints of the night.

Implying that any of the heroic bosses are easy (as a way of trying to take the other side of the coin with my statement that heroics are easy), implies that any 10 / 25 group of players can down them. The fact is that is just not true. Look at wow progress and you will see the huge disparity between normal and heroic raiding.

[jimlow]

Only gonna do LFR this expansion. Been too disappointed by a bunch of guilds always trying but never going anywhere. Always poor direction, nobody ever showing up on time, never prepped for raid, and too many primadonna's. Just so damn frustrating to the point were I simply don't even wanna look for a real raiding guild anymore. And I sure as Hell don't want to start my own guild and manage that wide awake nightmare.

If it wasn't for LFR I don't know if I would even be playing or not.

[Arbs]

Yeah heroics are easy when you go in with loads of people that have done heroics already right?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...skill/advanced

When you have killed Heroic Amber Lord by actually "progressing" through the raid and not being carried let us know

Yet another classic Jaylock bs thread.... ./sigh

I wish you good luck on Herioc Ambershaper !!

[isadorr]

You're claiming the game is easy when you haven't downed all the content and thus cannot judge it because you haven't done it.

Due to that fact yours, yes your own, argument and statement are invalid and have no credibility.

You also show more bias by saying Mists of Failure. Mists surged subscribers back over 10 million, and who knows, maybe they're at 200 million subscribers on Friday (this is an exaggeration and if you take it seriously just..yeah).

You posted your kills in Heroic mode which aren't 16/16, making the game not easy.

If it were easy, and I go back to my first point, you would have every single ounce of content in the game currently, Heroic Dungeons, Challenge Mode DUngeons, every single Faction to exalted, Heroic Raids trumped, etc. done.

I've made my point. If you still can't see it, I can't can.

I agree with some of this but there is no one in my guild that cares about heroic dungrons, challenge modes and exalted factions, just rep that we needed for gear at the beginning. Just because something is easy doesnt mean it will interest someone especially as he is in heroic progression which is a time sink at first, so why would anyone care about the trivial shit that doesnt award loot, the loot/gear, that is nothing compared to the heroic tier and gear he would be getting in raids.

Progression guilds that push hard arent going to care as much about armor changes from challenge mode, or rep that doesnt award anything but a mount, heroic dungeons which are a waste to begin with, they invest enough time in heroic progression. Once heroic content is cleared then yes if really bored then some may pursue some of that but most take time off raiding once a week along with a alt run.