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  1. #121
    The Lightbringer Draknalor186's Avatar
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    aslong as they bake that stat into abilities/gear like they did with stuff when MoP came, then i dont mind

  2. #122
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    just imagine that huge quality of life improvement this would bring, awesome!
    Or, you could just run with an Jewel/Ench main like I do. ^_^

  3. #123
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    I would not. I hate to enchant and gem.

  4. #124
    The Lightbringer Seriss's Avatar
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    I like enchanting and gemming. It's like a ritual. When you get something new, you brush over it and make it ready for use. I'm especially fond of gemming because it allows for adjusting to my personal needs.

    That said, I find reforging annoying but understand that it's an advantage to not have to design a dozen different items for a single slot, each of which may or may not be perfect for a certain spec.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    From GC's twitter feed someone made this comment:

    to which GC replied:
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ignoring the damage it might do to professions, would you miss gemming and enchanting?
    The important bit is the thought experiment of what that might do to professions? I'll admit that gearing choices can be a bit overwhelming these days unless you're simply working off of a BIS list.

    For me personally, this is the most interesting thing to pop out of GC's head in a while assuming that it's something that is in the back of his mind.

    So, what do you think?
    Yes, I like having combination gems, socket bonuses, adding a shiny gem on my character sheet is more fun than reforging.

    I would not miss reforging tho.

    I hate GC with all my heart, anything I like he removes and anything I do not like he brings it in and keeps it.

  6. #126
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    That said, I find reforging annoying but understand that it's an advantage to not have to design a dozen different items for a single slot, each of which may or may not be perfect for a certain spec.
    All you reforging haters didn't play back in the day, where you had to pass on loot or had to equip Items from a lower Tier just to stay hitcapped?

    Heh. Funny. Get Reforge lite Addon and Reforging is just one click. Well 2. at most.

    fond of gemming because it allows for adjusting to my personal needs.
    And reforging doesn't? According with this argument you should be in love with it.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    All you reforging haters didn't play back in the day, where you had to pass on loot or had to equip Items from a lower Tier just to stay hitcapped?
    We did play back before reforging anf it was lot more fun to figure out gems, enchants and enhance your gear than to go reforge with an addon.

    Why is wrong with you that you cannot tolerate other people's opinions? Some of us don't like reforging because it takes away from the game, it simplifies it, it's for dummies. Get over it.

  8. #128
    I would miss gemming and enchanting. Both allow a far more granular level of customisation than reforging alone. Anything that allows me to customise a piece of gear is awesome in my book.

  9. #129
    So, if we speak from a purely PvE standpoint, there is cookie cutter gems and enchants, sometimes the gems might by tricky to figure out, but as for enchants there is 1 enchant per slot that can benefit you, sometimes maybe 2, but that is rare.

    What gems and enchants do add however is a way of making money and making sure it's being distributed, it adds trade to the game, it's a good thing.

    The second point is that after you just got a new piece of gear, you wanna polish it up right?, go get the gems, get the enchants and all that that's cool, sure you spend gold on it, but please remember IT IS NOT A GOLD SINK, a gold sink is when the money goes into the game, but with enchanting and gems, it goes to another player.

    As for reforging... that's another thing, and I really don't like that, it forces me to either install some addon that I don't want to install, or sit there cracking numbers in-game, leave the math for outside of the game on websites, don't force me to do it in the game itself.

    And for those people who think that reforging is neccesary for things like hit/expertise caps, you're wrong, the way it used to be before was that most tiers had 2 of each item for every type of item, example being, agi mail, int mail, agi leather, int leather. This was there so that you could mix and match, and even if it didn't quite fit, you had gems to even it out, even though gems were pretty much set which your class/spec were supposed to get, you would sacrifice in order to cap something, reach a soft cap, etc. Aswell as enchants, there were your standard haste/crit/armor pen enchants, but also hit and expertise enchants so that you could cap hit.

    And last but not least, why do you need to get all your gear the first month or two? a raid is there for about 6 months before the next, surely 4 months is acceptable to get all your gear? I only started raiding again a month ago, and already I've got almost all the normal mode raid gear I need, sure I can get heroic, but that will take the exact same amount of time, and I haven't been particularly lucky with drops.
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  10. #130
    GC is the laziest shit ever. He removed stat after stat, now he will remove gemming/enchanting and maybe he can start warming us to the idea of removing professions. He is a pos that doesn't want to sit down and do his job balancing around, instead he takes the easy way for him every time and reduces the game complexity with every step he takes.

  11. #131
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    We did play back before reforging anf it was lot more fun to figure out gems, enchants and enhance your gear than to go reforge with an addon.
    Hmm must have played wrong then. The only thing to figure out was whether to get speed bonus on boots or stats. Everything else was just as theorycrafted and predetermined as it is today.

    Why is wrong with you that you cannot tolerate other people's opinions?
    I can. But I love to point out parts where other people are just contradicting themselves and start a discussion with that person.

    Some of us don't like reforging because it takes away from the game, it simplifies it, it's for dummies.
    Your opinion. You're entitled to that.

    I found the design retarded that I had to pass on good gear because I couldn't wear it right now.
    I hated the fact that I had to calculate like a madman with multiple item permutations to determine if said Item is even an upgrade or not.

    Reforging technically doesn't take that away, you can still run without it.
    Just almost nobody does because it's stupid and simply put: unfun.
    Well that and the wow players obsession with minmaxing which makes up around 3% of his DPS... and after all that minmaxing he then proceeds to movementfail and dies, making me lol hard. (Yes I am a mean person :< )

    Anyway, I'm getting off topic here, the question revolves around enchanting and gemming and not reforging.

  12. #132
    No, I would not miss it at all.I'd kiss it a goodbye in a heartbeat.

  13. #133
    No not really. It has just sort of become annoying rather than "yay I get to enchant my gear!" over the years.
    Hi Sephurik

  14. #134
    Not at all, I find it bothersome that I need to regem and all that whenever I get new gear. Maybe would be a little sad to see it go, but really I wouldn't mind at all.

  15. #135
    I think I would. It gives me a ritual to look forward to that makes me feel like I am doing what I can to make my role more efficient, but I also like being able to use the same gear for more than one spec and being able to hit the caps I need stat wise without hunting down a new off set of gear in the case of something like fury/arms.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:08 PM ----------

    Gemming I find annoying, but not reforging.
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  16. #136
    Deleted
    I wish there was more customization to them on high end level, but even as they are now, I'd sure miss them, and most likely rage.

  17. #137
    It is an interesting concept, but yes I would miss it.


    I always thought that part of WoW's appeal is the extreme gearing min/max details and variety.


    However I do think that the variety went out of the window with the extreme item budget homogenization post BC. There really is no more variety in gear stats, literally the only variety in stats only comes strictly from 2 things: Ilvl and poor enchanting/gemming/reforging choices. So yes realistically I would like for them to cut down enchanting and gemming, because everybody with a brain does the exact same thing anyways, ending up with the exact same stats as all other people with a brain bar a slightly different Ilvl.

    What I would really like though is for Blizzard to completely scrap mastery as a stat making haste and crit as meaningful as they used to be.

  18. #138
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    As for reforging... that's another thing, and I really don't like that, it forces me to either install some addon that I don't want to install, or sit there cracking numbers in-game, leave the math for outside of the game on websites, don't force me to do it in the game itself.

    And for those people who think that reforging is neccesary for things like hit/expertise caps, you're wrong, the way it used to be before was that most tiers had 2 of each item for every type of item, example being, agi mail, int mail, agi leather, int leather. This was there so that you could mix and match, and even if it didn't quite fit, you had gems to even it out, even though gems were pretty much set which your class/spec were supposed to get, you would sacrifice in order to cap something, reach a soft cap, etc. Aswell as enchants, there were your standard haste/crit/armor pen enchants, but also hit and expertise enchants so that you could cap hit.
    Umm.. so.. please enlighten me on one thing:
    You hate math. You want others to do the mathematical legwork for you. Okay, I can accept that.

    But where is the difference between calculating in the reforger window
    (You actually don't have to calculate at all, you can do it via gut feeling and get as close as 0.05% of you cap, I did it like that for years. Only last December I tried out R-Lite because I became lazy)

    and calculating Gem values, lost pp through Item changes, enchanting values? Esp since you won't get as close as 0.05%.
    Sometimes you will have 0.5% hit too much and there's nothing you can do about it.

    I just don't see the difference, really. Math is math, however you apply it is irrelevant.

    What I would really like though is for Blizzard to completely scrap mastery as a stat making haste and crit as meaningful as they used to be.
    Amen!
    Last edited by Granyala; 2013-02-04 at 12:15 AM.

  19. #139
    While they are at it why don't they just remove professions completely. They are too overwhelming also.

  20. #140
    Gemming, enchanting, and reforging collectively offer a path to customizing ones character. In theory, this is a good thing and should always be part of the game. In practice, this conflicts sharply with recent design philosophy to provide players with everything they need in their toolkit, such that the choices they make are meaningful. This is because, as everyone knows, a couple of theorycrafters do the work of defining stat weights for each spec, and the community merely copies the "right" answer to make their characters most popular. If there is any doubt of this, one needs only visit sites like icy-veins.com and askmrrobot.com. These guys "solve" how to make your stat choices in much the same way talent trees were reduced to cookie cutter builds. As of now, these options do not offer a "meaningful" choice.

    They do have value in that they provide for a flowing economy by giving crafters things to make and sell, and this is a good thing that I wouldn't like to see go away.

    However, there is a problem when the game design philosophy regarding character customization has become one-dimensional, when there is a "solution".

    I've attempted to make this point regarding the recent paladin discussion on prot stat weights. Currently, it is more beneficial (by a large margin) to gear for dps stats like haste and mastery over traditional tanking stats like dodge and parry. This is because the stat weights are such that haste is worth nearly twice what dodge and parry are. This means that there is no choice. There is a "right" answer and it's been "solved" - at the expense of a valid choice for an alternative style of play focusing more of passive mitigation.

    A meaningful choice would be granted by raising the %dodge and %parry gained per point to achieve parity (or nearly so) with haste and mastery, such that the player could choose whether to rely on his active mitigation or rely on his passive mitigation as per his play style. This would add value to the game, where the current option does not.

    An older example is one close to my heart. In Vanilla, druids were healers, but some of us enjoyed shapeshifting and found ways to gear ourselves in blue gear with randomly generated +str, +agi, and +stam gear in order to make bears a viable (playable, though not quite progression worthy like warriors) playstyle. I could tank dungeons and MC, and could fill an offtank role in BWL+. While it was not "intended," it was possible with some work, and it was fun. This concept of alternative playstyles has gone the way of the dodo because of loot stat homogenization, but gemming/enchanting/reforging offer the possibility for creative play with a few tweaks to stat priorities. I think the game would benefit from these sort of possibilities.

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