Any other Blood DK's having issues with threat?

[Kiqjaq]

At lower levels the process feels very painful to me.

At lower levels you can solely spam Blood Boil (well, use some DS to convert to D runes) and top meters. Aggro should be trivial.

[Zili]

Its never been an issue at all for a lack of cool downs. also obviously wouldn't do it if i need it on a fight for a mechanic (ie. impale)

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 08:40 AM ----------

and why glyph of outbreak? I've seen no reason for it yet... you could be using runic power on Rune Strike instead of outbreak...
for fight i might need outbreak on less that 1 minute i prefer to use Unholy blight in place of Roiling Blood to give me another source for debuffs

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 06:54 PM ----------



Really? that's smart... let's waste 1 of our defensive cds before a fight...

Its never been an issue at all for a lack of cool downs. also obviously wouldn't do it if i need it on a fight for a mechanic (ie. impale)

[Jackkernaut]

Heart Strike hits for very low damage with decent vengence, maybe Blizzard should start fixing threat with boosting it.

[Spiralphoenix]

(4000 STR potion can help) -> Taunt (pull) -> outbreak (no-glyph) -> DS -> DS -> HS -> DRW (glyphed) -> HS -> ERW -> DS -> DS -> RS -> RS

Nobody will touch your threat after that. Always lead with a taunt to guarantee they are glued to you for 3s. After you are more comfortable you can unglyph DRW as it is mostly unnecessary threat.

[TiaMaster]

(4000 STR potion can help) -> Taunt (pull) -> outbreak (no-glyph) -> DS -> DS -> HS -> DRW (glyphed) -> HS -> ERW -> DS -> DS -> RS -> RS

Err...never taunt as a pull.

Anyway back to OP, he was remarking on threat as opposing a BREWMASTER. If any of you that say there are no threat problems would just pay attention to Skada (or Recount or whatever) when you tank with a BM you would notice the discrepancy right way.

Not a gear problem.
Not a DK threat problem.
Not a opening rotation problem.
It IS a BrewMaster problem acknowledged already by the community and something we will have to put up with until Blizz fixes the threat of hard-exp capped monks and their threat spamming abilities. Maybe adding back in the additional threat gen provided by Rune Strike and DnD might be a start. ;P

[Ragethorn]

Ok, so last night's raiding was a completely different story than my original post. I removed the Outbreak Glyph and my problems seemingly disappeared. I even was pulling threat off my co-tank, which never happened before, really, on my DK.

I don't think it was completely the glyph's fault. I have to admit that prior to reading the suggestions here, I never opened up with DRW. I had always saved it as a defensive cooldown. But with it having such a low cooldown, and the shear amount of other defensive cooldowns at our disposal, there's really not reason NOT to.

I also saved Army for burn phase and we actually killed every boss last night in Terrace with a new record time.

I appreciate all the help. I feel guilty that I was making such mistakes, but I'm glad that it was an easy fix.

[Hyve]

Really? that's smart... let's waste 1 of our defensive cds before a fight...

Threat at the start of the fight is more important then using Army as a defensive cooldown, because it gives you more time and space to focus on setting up your Blood Shields, and setting up your runes to be their most efficient.

Also, from what I have found from my personal experience, is using it as a purely defensive cooldown isn't always viable, because the damage you're taking often comes from various sources that involve movement, knock back or stuns.

On-Topic: Brewmaster Threat is insane at the moment. Don't feel bad, and don't get worried.

[Saybel]

Should be obvious no? i'll explain... you dont need rolling blood to refresh debuffs...
on most single target fights neither matters... you most times you apply once, refresh it here and there and thats it...

rolling blood only spreads debuffs doesn't applies new ones when u need new ones... so UB gives a second way to apply debuffs...

rolling blood is awesome and so is Unholy blight what I was saying is that is smart to know your tools and know the fights. Plus switching between tools depending on situations...

If the OP sees a need for a outbreak with no CD, which I don't see, maybe taking UB would help him... I mostly use RB but i like UB on some fights like elegon... tbh you can do weel with both... its more a QoL matter sometimes


there are times when u can use 2 cds to apply debuffs there are other where spreading them for free preferable...

Don't just stick with 1 as if it was the only thing you had in your arsenal...

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 12:29 PM ----------



precasting is always a bad idea in my oppinion... first is a cooldown and u should use all you cooldowns even if its not a tank damage fight... less heals on you more available to raid... Everyone, tank, heals and dps should always minimize damage taken. thats a good raiding principle.

As a dps cd, it benefits from vengeance, hero and other CDs, so its also a dps loss to use it before pull

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 12:36 PM ----------

i remember my fist kill on bladelord, other tank was dead had a few stacks of the debuff already and most cds were down...
with Bone Shield (20% reduction) and AoD (30% reduction) and a few DS managed to survive till phase 2!

You should probably use Plague Leech on single target as it doesn't remove Weakened Blows.

[Deleted]

I Always use army pre pull

a) You have the runes spare on the pull, may as well get them rolling straight away

b) By the time you've pulled there ready to attack increasing you threat

c) they are a huge DPS boost, used with pre-pot + pulling BL, they scale really well

d) Yes they are a defensive CD, although only can be used once per fight, unless there's a set point to use it (which lets face it there are very few fights with such low amount of spike damage)

E) Using as a defensive CD does have one draw back, you cannot dodge/parry while channeling, so you take quite abit (although lower) of damage

Acouple fights where I ignore this is Elegon (pop on 3rd phase with the + damage modifier for great DPS), Shek'sheer (they taunt the adds in phase two allowing for no tank damage off the small adds)

After that I just use a start rotation of:

Army>Prepot (mogu power)> pull with Taunt + outbreak (unglyped + you gain a 4 second threat window to use everything else), Synapse Springs (engin glove enchant for more burst)> Death Strike, DRW, Heart strike, Horn of winter, Rune strike. Then normal rotation and off you go

Some may argue that this is a DPS starting trick, however it's DPS that kills a boss, and the more DPS you can gain the better, I'm not a top end raider + I raid with a holy pally + disc priest so i'm fully shield'd anyway so I lose no survivability for 120k+ burst DPS


Also another point, I have only found one use for Glyph of Outbreak, and that was on Progress of Lei shi, Where with so many adds+ untargetable bits, the glyph was an easy option, but I've stopped using it now on farm

One thing I will mention is I'm main tank, if i was off tank i wouldn't use it pre pull as no vengeance at all for a while

[Spiralphoenix]

Err...never taunt as a pull.

Care to give a reason? Unless you need to tank swap, diminishing is not an issue (and even if you did, it still really wouldn't be), and it's very unlikely you will need it again in the next 8s, in which case, you have a backup taunt. Also, it is not on the GCD. There's no reason not to glue it to you in the space of time between you closing the gap at the pull.

I will agree that Brewmaster threat is an issue, though, but that is separate to the above.

[theyanger]

You should almost ALWAYS taunt on the pull. Whoever said not to is insane, the only time you ever have risk of losing threat is the first 1-2 seconds of a fight, that solves it handily.

Also you should simply never NEED to outbreak that often, that's what rolling blood is for in AE situations and scarlet fever makes sure you keep it up single target, just make sure to refresh with a proc as necessary.

[solid77]

rune strike and DS do a crap load of threat... should be no reason to have threat problems... i usually just IT/PS/HS on the pull and rune strike then DS/HS (BB PROC) RS etc... never have any problems... if you want to feel safer you can taunt to pull too, if you cant get top threat by the time the taunt is done, you're having other issues

i like to save outbreak for DRW to double dip diseases without giving up a DS... also, your diseases don't scale with vengeance unless you reapply them, so using DRW when your vengeance is stacked really high and reapplying the diseases will give you more dps output.

if you keep using rolling blood on your diseases from your initial pull and never reapply, your dots will tick for way less vs diseases applied with high vengeance and rolling those throughout the fight...

[Kiqjaq]

if you keep using rolling blood on your diseases from your initial pull and never reapply, your dots will tick for way less vs diseases applied with high vengeance and rolling those throughout the fight...

Not how it works. Refreshing diseases with Blood Boil recalculates them, and spreading diseases with Pestilence recalculates them on the new targets (though not the original one). Spreading with Roiling Blood does both, and so it snapshots your current AP for all diseases that you just applied.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...aq%22%29%29%29

See how I pull with an Outbreak and they tick for **** all, and then as the fight goes a bit I refresh with Blood Boil now that I have vengeance, and they tick for triple the amount? And then Shadow Breath hits and I get a boatload of vengeance, then I Blood Boil and let the other tank take over, and let those roll for as long as possible doing relatively nice damage before being forced to refresh them down to a lower value?
I don't use Outbreak or anything for quite a while and the dots' value changes quite dramatically.

That works for DRW diseases though. You can't refresh those other than reapplying, since DRW doesn't know Scarlet Fever or Roiling Blood, and the DRW won't be around long anyways, so best apply them with high vengeance.

[solid77]

hmm i always thought current target (unless there's adds and pestilence refreshes back to your target) wouldn't get recalc'd for vengeance via BB.. either way it wouldn't change anything on how i do things, since i like to save outbreak for DRW during high vengeance stacks and tanks naturally BB constantly via crimson scourge, so it all works out...

Not how it works. Refreshing diseases with Blood Boil recalculates them, and spreading diseases with Pestilence recalculates them on the new targets (though not the original one). Spreading with Roiling Blood does both, and so it snapshots your current AP for all diseases that you just applied.


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...aq%22%29%29%29

See how I pull with an Outbreak and they tick for **** all, and then as the fight goes a bit I refresh with Blood Boil now that I have vengeance, and they tick for triple the amount? And then Shadow Breath hits and I get a boatload of vengeance, then I Blood Boil and let the other tank take over, and let those roll for as long as possible doing relatively nice damage before being forced to refresh them down to a lower value?
I don't use Outbreak or anything for quite a while and the dots' value changes quite dramatically.

That works for DRW diseases though. You can't refresh those other than reapplying, since DRW doesn't know Scarlet Fever or Roiling Blood, and the DRW won't be around long anyways, so best apply them with high vengeance.

[Kiqjaq]

either way it wouldn't change anything on how i do things

It should do; you can push dps quite a bit more with very little effort by properly managing your dots/vengeance.
Take Sha (normal >.<) for an example. When you get whisked away to the platform you have about 90k vengeance. 3 seconds after landing on the add platform it falls down to around 30k from decay. Outbreak before it decays, and then use your next Crimson Scourge on DnD or just hold on to it for a bit since refreshing with BB will take ****ing loads off your damage for no reason.

[Deleted]

I tank along side of a monk. We both over agro each over cus where meter hoe's. on the pull just outbreak > DS. Wala threat ur getting vengance instantly on pull. If you lose after a second or so just pop a taunt. If your losing threat when tank switching just make sure u got ur DRW up and glyphed for switches. If not make sure ur almost RP capped. Taunt DS > RSx2 and you should be good.

Ill be honest when i need to pull threat i dont follow any rotation i just hit whats avaible every hit is threat.

To the people who use army pre pull as blood. You get a few k dps from army on pull. Or you have heavy damage incoming. Pop DRW+army. Gives you bascially another IBF. Your playing a tank not a dps. Whats the most logical choice?

[Iso]

Don't have consistent problems. It depends on the pull/boss. If anything a dodge'd DS at the pull might mean the boss turns on our fury warrior for a split second, but it's extremly rare.

[Deleted]

Don't have consistent problems. It depends on the pull/boss. If anything a dodge'd DS at the pull might mean the boss turns on our fury warrior for a split second, but it's extremly rare.

We have recently been having issues with our warrior too but that's entirely down to him being a crit whore and smashing all his CD's as the boss lands (vizier zor'lok) before the tank even gets his first 2 hits in. Beyond that I have never seen a tank struggle this xpac.

[Ragethorn]

Originally, I thought it was my fault. Then I realized my co-tank is an idiot and doesn't stop going balls out on tank swaps.

[Maelstrom51]

Just taunt on the pull and you should have no problems.