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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    I never said I DISAGREED with the way people in some random country I've never been pay for a game. Local market, policy, culture, law it is everything. I see a company who operates in an other country as a GUEST.

    With that said my post was about how Blizzard counts the subscriptions.

    I don't see how you could interpret my post the way you did.
    Let's quote your remark:

    "Given the Asian players play a different amount for the game (much less, and per hour) they shouldn't be count the same as a sub. But Blizzard decided at some point they should count the same. Weird huh? Talking about giving your own statistics less credibility."

    So how is Blizzard supposed to be counting them then, since the "play by the hour" is the default system in communist China? They only account for the dudes being active with these pay to play cards in the last month.

    Also your argument of "pay less" can be used for many western countries too: Russia with its 2 dozen servers pays around 9 dollars, South America even less..., as it appears WOW costs a hefty price compared to China wages over there.

    An active subscription is an active subscription as Blizzard defines it, they can't wage everthing on a kind of index scale (like average income per average playing time, per the country's laws etc...).

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogly View Post
    Pacific time is 8 hours behind GMT (the standard). The conference call is at 13:30 pacific time so if you are in the UK it will be at 9:30pm tonight, 10:30 for GMT+1 (France Germany Spain Netherlands Belgium etc, most of western europe) and 11:30 for eastern europe that is considered GMT+2.
    1:30 PDT / 2:30 MDT / 3:30 CDT / 4:30 EDT / 5:00 NFDT (Newfoundland) / 5:30 ADT

    for North America
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  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Heresy View Post
    Yes, but there could still be some active.

    Annual passes became available Oct/Nov 2011 and new sign ups ended April/May 2012.
    Please keep in mind there are only 1.2 million annual passes and doesn't account for at minimum 3-4 million EU/NA subscriptions NOT on the annual pass. How much longer are you people going to milk this annual pass angle?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 07:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    By MMORPG standards... absolutely.

    By Stock market investors seeing their profits sink into a pithole - not so much (enter the curse of "growing your business for investors")

    While you'd still be happy, I guarantee at 5 mil subs there would be yelling, mass meetings and firings at Blizzard if that happened, not to mention the ENTIRE game getting a massive ideology reaction-gameplay shift (just like what happened during Firelands>DS). Especially considering that those subscriptions are the ONLY source of continual revenue funding goodness knows how many of their projects that they got going on... This isn't the old Blizz anymore, where they worked on 2 games, 1 expansion each at a time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 07:35 AM ----------



    We're going to find out tomorrow via the investor call at around 1ish...
    Considering Blizzard lost 3 million subscribers in a year and still managed to turn record breaking profits, I think investors have plenty of confidence in the company even if there are more losses. Again there is significantly more to ATVI than just Wow.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 08:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Avezo View Post
    Can't really see it gaining subs with its current content being primarily grind grind grind and grind in CRZs.
    Because there was never any sort of a grind in this game before Mop. Yeah ok whatever you say.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Let's quote your remark:

    "Given the Asian players play a different amount for the game (much less, and per hour) they shouldn't be count the same as a sub. But Blizzard decided at some point they should count the same. Weird huh? Talking about giving your own statistics less credibility."

    So how is Blizzard supposed to be counting them then, since the "play by the hour" is the default system in communist China? They only account for the dudes being active with these pay to play cards in the last month.

    Also your argument of "pay less" can be used for many western countries too: Russia with its 2 dozen servers pays around 9 dollars, South America even less..., as it appears WOW costs a hefty price compared to China wages over there.

    An active subscription is an active subscription as Blizzard defines it, they can't wage everthing on a kind of index scale (like average income per average playing time, per the country's laws etc...).
    BenBos is right, You also gotta take into account money conversion aswell, so that could be the reason for the lower or high cost than the standard 15 dollars in North America.

    Basically like I have said above & many others have said aswell, There paying a service & its counted regardless on how it is payed.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Please keep in mind there are only 1.2 million annual passes and doesn't account for at minimum 3-4 million EU/NA subscriptions NOT on the annual pass. How much longer are you people going to milk this annual pass angle?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 07:58 AM ----------



    Considering Blizzard lost 3 million subscribers in a year and still managed to turn record breaking profits, I think investors have plenty of confidence in the company even if there are more losses. Again there is significantly more to ATVI than just Wow.
    That last part is very true. WoW will lose 1-2mil subs but who cares from an investors standpoint? CoD is money machine and Skylanders is such a badass IP.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogly View Post
    Pacific time is 8 hours behind GMT (the standard). The conference call is at 13:30 pacific time so if you are in the UK it will be at 9:30pm tonight, 10:30 for GMT+1 (France Germany Spain Netherlands Belgium etc, most of western europe) and 11:30 for eastern europe that is considered GMT+2.
    Just a brief note,

    CET (Central European Time) = GMT + 1

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avezo View Post
    Can't really see it gaining subs with its current content being primarily grind grind grind and grind in CRZs.
    You never played Vanilla or TBC did you ?? There was way more grind than this and people claim that to be the golden age of WoW.

    The grind for Netherwing drake (daily quests) toke time & flying mounts that toke alot of gold or exalted rep for the mount or training (Expert & Artisan).

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Classic_reputation_rewards
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Burning_Crus...tation_rewards

    New players were just spoiled in Wrath & Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-02-07 at 01:09 PM.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Considering Blizzard lost 3 million subscribers in a year and still managed to turn record breaking profits, I think investors have plenty of confidence in the company even if there are more losses. Again there is significantly more to ATVI than just Wow.
    As a guy who works directly with stockbrokers, I can assure that absolutely nothing gets overlooked. The degree to which they analyse every little detail is staggering.

    Makes sense too, the amount of money they're investing is ludicrous.
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  9. #389
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Let's quote your remark:

    "Given the Asian players play a different amount for the game (much less, and per hour) they shouldn't be count the same as a sub. But Blizzard decided at some point they should count the same. Weird huh? Talking about giving your own statistics less credibility."

    So how is Blizzard supposed to be counting them then, since the "play by the hour" is the default system in communist China? They only account for the dudes being active with these pay to play cards in the last month.
    Simple: by stating the average amount of hours per sub, or the total amount of hours played. Is it really that hard?

    Also your argument of "pay less" can be used for many western countries too: Russia with its 2 dozen servers pays around 9 dollars, South America even less..., as it appears WOW costs a hefty price compared to China wages over there.
    9 dollars and 13 dollars isn't a big difference, and it is a static amount.

    An active subscription is an active subscription as Blizzard defines it, they can't wage everthing on a kind of index scale (like average income per average playing time, per the country's laws etc...).
    Their methodology is flawed.

    With Asian players its a completely different measure. Previously at least they differentiated between the subscriptions, but when Region A (rest of the world) went down and Region B (Asia) went up they decided to merge them. Fishy aye? They could, instead, say we have X million subscribers in Region A (rest of the world) and in Region B (Asia) we have Y amount of playtime. It is that simple, it gives your investors more transparency.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoibert View Post
    Just a brief note,

    CET (Central European Time) = GMT + 1
    Would have though that was pretty self explanatory in my post. Being English I work by GMT as its the standard that world times are set by. Though I know of CET there is no point trying to add confusion to the mix by stating it instead of just GMT+1, especially as I rolled off a short list of a few of the countries in that time bracket for people to understand the geographical referencing.

  11. #391
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Why shouldn't they count ?? They are paying a service like the rest of us, It just different cause of there government laws & rules.
    Because A) there are better methodologies to count the success of WoW in Asia. B) By counting the way they do they mix apples with pears.

    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oogly View Post
    Would have though that was pretty self explanatory in my post. Being English I work by GMT as its the standard that world times are set by. Though I know of CET there is no point trying to add confusion to the mix by stating it instead of just GMT+1, especially as I rolled off a short list of a few of the countries in that time bracket for people to understand the geographical referencing.
    You work by UTC which is the successor of GMT notion which is considered legacy. AFAIK they're interchangeable.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    You obviously don't understand the workings of subscription services. With a new xpac many people will be subscribed for 3 months, some for 6, many are still shackled by annual pass, some level slowly and realize only after several weeks they don't like the new offerings.

    Even with Cata, which was shit from day one, it took months for the losses to manifest and even longer for Blizzard to react. Devs even did the rehashed troll 5-mans, one of the two dumbest patches in the history of this game - next to voice chat.

    This quarter may bring some indications, but the full financial drama or glory of MoP will become obvious three months from now.
    And yet none of that has anything to do with what I said. Check out the previous threads on these forums for each of the past 3-4 quarters. In almost every one there are people (many of which are in this very thread as well) who said it is the next quarter where the real losses will happen.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    BenBos is right, You also gotta take into account money conversion aswell, so that could be the reason for the lower or high cost than the standard 15 dollars in North America.

    Basically like I have said above & many others have said aswell, There paying a service & its counted regardless on how it is payed.
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game. However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.

    Anyway, my prediction is that Mope has done irreparable damage to the WoW franchise. Beyond that, D3 has completely tanked the company's credibility. The future does not seem particularly rosy for Activision.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    A lot of peolpe quitted over dailies, some quitted over CRZ, some dont like the PVP season and quitted too.

    I expect the number to be around 9.5M.

    I just hope this makes Blizzard open their eyes at how much they failed with their crappy daily system.
    And yet there are many players who like the game as is. Has it ever occurred to you people that different people are allowed to like different things and that just because you personally don't like something doesn't make it bad or broken or "crap"?

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And yet none of that has anything to do with what I said. Check out the previous threads on these forums for each of the past 3-4 quarters. In almost every one there are people (many of which are in this very thread as well) who said it is the next quarter where the real losses will happen.
    So do you think that next quarter (Q1) is going to perform better than Q4 considering Q4 saw the release of MOP in China, the launch of 5.1 and Christmas and Q1 has what to attract new players?

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    You never played Vanilla or TBC did you ?? There was way more grind than this and people claim that to be the golden age of WoW.

    The grind for Netherwing drake (daily quests) toke time & flying mounts that toke alot of gold or exalted rep for the mount or training (Expert & Artisan).

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Classic_reputation_rewards
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Burning_Crus...tation_rewards

    New players were just spoiled in Wrath & Cataclysm.
    Heartily disagree. I've played since beta and the golden age was clearly during WotLK.

  17. #397
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Nicely ignoring the launch of a 10.000.000 copies sold new Blizzard game in that quarter...

    The disucssions about Blizzard never stops with so many ignorant factors really.
    Nicely ignoring that Q2 2012 was only the tip of the iceberg on a genrally failed expansion to make a point.
    I mean the game lost 2,8 million subs in total during Cataclysm.
    And that particular Quarter was only 1,2 of them.
    You wanna blame Diablo's launch for the remaining 1,6 maybe?
    What i said, is that this particular Quarter redefined the number needed to comment "major" loss in subs.
    Before that we have seen 600k drop and 800k drop (both in Cataclysm what a coincidence) and they were considered "major".

    If the subs now drop 600k, some people after the 1,2 millions might even comment "a small drop in subs after all" while many other would say "600k after all, nothing major".
    I didn't even commented why the game lost 1,2 millions that quarter...Just said that 1,2 millions is the new standard for "major".

    Butthurt much?

  18. #398
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game.
    Yes, but the total number of players isn't very important. If you have SWTOR for example (note these numbers I made up!), and you got 300k paying subs, and 1200k people playing that means you got 900k who play for free. More important than how many are playing for free however is for how much do they buy from the cash shop.

    However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.
    Wait you mean Blizzard reports this on WoW? Why was I not informed? Am I reading news sites which are just quoting numbers which are actually irrelevant and inaccurate?

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.
    Eh, they are really ALMOST the same. If anything it's 5 million red apples and 5 million green apples. lol

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Why shouldn't they count ?? They are paying a service like the rest of us, It just different cause of there government laws & rules.



    It been released in all Regions, China didn't get MoP until a week or so after it was released in Us & EU.

    I knew China gets things later, just wasn't sure. Thank you.

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