So Jin'Rokh the Breaker has 21 items on his loot table

[LazarusLong]

You know 19% is less tham 20% right ? And the actual numbers are 21.1% chance of drop with 1 iten in 10 aprox (theres no reposition meaning that the second iten that drops is dropign from a total of 9 and not 10) and 19.5 % for the 2 bosses with 21 iten each scenario. Nonetheless the chance of you getting any specific iten is aprox 9.8% on the 21 itens loot table and 21.1% on the 10 loot table, meaning a smaler table gives you more tham double the chance of getting an iten that you actualy want, its not hard to see wich one is the best, the larger loot tabel scenario will give itens for the same slots alot more often, and every time you happen to get a drop that nobody on your 10 man roster can use its gona feel even worse than it does currently (and it feels terribad already).

On a 25 man scenario this problem is much more manageable cause the boss drops 6 itens anyway eventualy the stuf you want will drop, most likely itll drop more tham once rare are the cases that a 25 man team dont see something dropping.

Again, there are more viable alternative items now, so if one didn't drop, you may have drop from other boss. Yes, it does mean that it will give itmes for the same slots more often. How is that different from increased drop of one item, and why is it worse?

Now in T14 bossed drop 10 items, if there is a token on loot table, and 14 if not (Except Tsulong and Lei Shi). In T15 "Token" bossed drop 14-16 items, Non-token - 19-21. So whole "double chance" math is wrong.

[Paulosio]

My guilds bear tank is still going around with a blue staff because despite us being 15/16 heroic. He uses a coin on Tsulong and Spirit kings every week and does raid finder every week but the staffs just don't drop. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for him... although I always make sure to mock him each time it doesn't drop.

[Buu]

This really really really sucks for 10 man...

I hope they bump up the amount of loot dropped in 10m too...

Partial and tunneled vision... No, what will happen is that...

With small loot tables you will see more items sharded.

So, in the Thunder King Tier we will see LESS disenchants, because no one have use for the stuff. And if anyone need Blood, there is always 5.0 to go.

When, exactly, do you think you'll even kill Ra-den?

I know my chances are very dim, and as far as I follow hardcore people, this loot table isn't a big concern for those who CAN reach Ra-Den. The loot tables BEFORE him is what concerns them.

[DakonBlackblade]

Again, there are more viable alternative items now, so if one didn't drop, you may have drop from other boss. Yes, it does mean that it will give itmes for the same slots more often. How is that different from increased drop of one item, and why is it worse?

Now in T14 bossed drop 10 items, if there is a token on loot table, and 14 if not (Except Tsulong and Lei Shi). In T15 "Token" bossed drop 14-16 items, Non-token - 19-21. So whole "double chance" math is wrong.

The whole 10 itens thing was jsut from a hipothetical scenario I made to explain my point, I was merely pointing that larger table = less chance of any specific iten dropping and while theyre increasing the number of itens for some slots on T15 that isnt the case for every slot (like daggers and some other weapons) and some of the itens are simply garbage for certain classes/specs and the alternatives are much better. Since its not realy a choice you get stuck with whayever the heck happens to drop odds of you actualy getting that trinket thats is good for you are small in comparision to smaller loot tables.

And the size of the loot table on the token bosses on t15 is just downright ridiculous.

About the question you make on the beggining "How is that different from increased drop of one item, and why is it worse?" the answer is from a player by player aspect, none realy, but when you look at the whole raid team the diference is hughe, if 2 agi leather legs drop 1 of them si egtting scrapped, but if there was only 1 agi leather leg on the entire raid tier the second one would never drop, something else would instead and someone would have a use for it.

[Callimonk]

Many of the items between loot tables are shared.

Plus, it gives us more options for gearing overall, vs. two boots to choose, or one wrist, or two trinkets. Personally, I found T14's loot options boring.

[azurrei]

The variety of loot in this tier is great!

ToT is shaping up to be an awesome tier - large sprawling fortress, epic bosses, lots of loot variety, and LOTS of incentive to run it as an actual raid (a.k.a 25 man), not some boring, less than epic 5-man dungeon on steriods (a.k.a 10-man.)

[Meleti]

This tier has a huge number of items, so BIS lists are going to be pretty pointless. You use what drops.

[Moshots]

People seem to forget this is probily just DS 2.0. Every boss in DS had 15+ items on its loot table because 5 rings+5 trinkets were all rare drops shared among all bosses id assume if this ends up true it will be something like this. also were not on release patch yet so any "drops off this boss" is no where close to official they don't even have models for a few weapons in yet.

[Asmalya]

People seem to forget this is probily just DS 2.0. Every boss in DS had 15+ items on its loot table because 5 rings+5 trinkets were all rare drops shared among all bosses id assume if this ends up true it will be something like this. also were not on release patch yet so any "drops off this boss" is no where close to official they don't even have models for a few weapons in yet.

And we went ages not seeing the agi ring on hagara for example...woop woop....and ds really last longer then tot ever will.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

It's expected that you'll be fishing with your coins, every attempt and every week.

They still seem to think people do dailies.

[iperson]

People actually complain about a "21 item on his loot table"? Really?

Nah, it's a lot better to have 2-3 items on the loot table and always having them drop, for sure.

If only there were numbers between 3 and 21...

Doesn't matter how many items are on the table, you know cenarian/felheart are all that's gonna drop...

[Lethora]

It's expected that you'll be fishing with your coins, every attempt and every week.

They still seem to think people do dailies.

I still have 2000 lesser charms after spending 90 every week since the start of the expansion. Dailies are fun and are an easy source of income. I do them 2-3 times a week.

[Deleted]

Dailies are fun

Haha, good one.

[Callimonk]

This tier has a huge number of items, so BIS lists are going to be pretty pointless. You use what drops.

I would actually argue that it makes BiS lists more fun. There are more choices with itemization, vs. just going for a certain piece because of a higher ilevel.

ie, can't just look up what has the highest ilevel and what part of my tier is poorly itemized. There was some flexibility with boots and necks for leather wearers, of course, but I'm pretty excited to start simming different combinations

[Kazgrel]

I would actually argue that it makes BiS lists more fun. There are more choices with itemization, vs. just going for a certain piece because of a higher ilevel.

ie, can't just look up what has the highest ilevel and what part of my tier is poorly itemized. There was some flexibility with boots and necks for leather wearers, of course, but I'm pretty excited to start simming different combinations

This. There will be a BiS list, yes, but this time around there will be actual options. As a shaman, one of our more coveted items are shields; yet every tier, only one boss in each raid has dropped a viable caster shield since the beginning of Cata. It was 4 months of DS every week (on LFR and normal/heroic) before I got the caster shield out of there. Yes, RNG is RNG, and even with 2 (or 3?) different caster shields among the loot tables, I could very well run into that same streak...but it is a lot more comforting to thing "Well, Boss A didn't drop shield A I could use...maybe Boss B will drop shield B, or Boss C will drop shield C". Sure, one of the three shields could be named BiS, but the other two would be nearly equal (since barring TF items, the ilvls will remain constant, 522 normal mode instead of the issue of HoF/Terrace loot vs. MV).

Have to say, though, I bet the folks responsible for the loot tables for ToT are looking forward to a vacation, heh.

[blackhammer99]

If you are raiding ten man you should be doing it because you enjoy the ten people you raid with.
If you are that upset about gear and take it that serious, you should be raiding 25 man.

It is how the game was meant to be played, and I for one am glad they are pushing more towards 25 man benefits.

10 man was, and should remain, the more casual of the options in order to reward the players who wish to play with their closer friends and should have less emphasis on loot overall.

Would NOT mind if they separated the lockouts and made 10 man drop half a tier lower ilvl like in Wrath. That was what made the most sense IMO.

[Moshots]

If you are raiding ten man you should be doing it because you enjoy the ten people you raid with.
If you are that upset about gear and take it that serious, you should be raiding 25 man.

It is how the game was meant to be played, and I for one am glad they are pushing more towards 25 man benefits.

10 man was, and should remain, the more casual of the options in order to reward the players who wish to play with their closer friends and should have less emphasis on loot overall.

Would NOT mind if they separated the lockouts and made 10 man drop half a tier lower ilvl like in Wrath. That was what made the most sense IMO.

Spoken like a true non-raider. Ask Blood legion how hard 10 mans are they tried it one tier on there alts after progression and called it equal. Equal but different is best way. 10 man's have to play perfect we can't kill bosses with 1/5 the raid dead like 25's. We can't stack 4 tanks for fights to cheat mechanics. Take sha for example it was significantly easier to get to p2 without taking 2-3 days in 25 mans. There equal but separate 10's and 25's should be different brackets but both need to be shown some respect.

[Deleted]

Bonusrolls really made it more enjoyable lootwise in 10man raids. There are still some items we never saw in Terrace and HoF, but if people want something really badly and spend their bonusroll on it every week they will get it in the end (in bonusroll or normal loot).

Of course the route where blizzard is going lootwise isn't optimal... for example Legs in Throne of Thunder: Do we really need 3 pairs of Cloth-DPS legs + 2 pairs of Cloth-Spirit leg + T15 Legs? Wouldn't it be enough to have 1-2 non-set Cloth-DPS, 1 non-set Cloth-Spirit and T15 Legs? And its the same on every other slot!
Moreover Blizzard should get rid of Spirit-Cloth items... only priests can use them and if your 10man raid doesnt have one (which can be quite common to not have one specific class in your roster when there are 10 classes for 10 raidslots)... they either shouldn't drop at all when there is no priest in the raid or priests should be tweaked to be able to use non-spirit items.

There are simply too much items right now. In the end everybody takes 4 T15 and 1 non-Set... but there are 5 T15 Items and something like 20 non-Set Items. 20 non-Set Items to choose from for 1 slot and if you get the right one all the other non-Set items become worthless.

Firelands had 7 Bosses with small loottables, still there was enough loot. Now we have 13 Bosses with big loottables and everybody is just annoyed.

[furydeath]

Ya gearing my mage when our ten man ONLY ever got agi items and tank plate is fun I think we had one DPS item drop.

[Deleted]

meh, the heroic gear is gonna be 80% from bonusrolls anyway.