Who's more "evil" as of now: Orcs or the Forsaken?

[Deleted]

I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.

I'm inclined to agree. At least, to a point.

There are extremely bad eggs in every race on Azeroth and, in the case of the orcs, it just so happens that one of their bad eggs is currently running the show because of the lack of foresight or perhaps guilt of one of the supposed good eggs. When bad people are in power, they tend to surround themselves with equally bad people, sadists, megalomaniacs etc, so what we see of the orcish hierarchy is often bad at the moment, but seeing as how orcish society is not democratic, this does not reflect in any way on the majority of the orcish populace, who, I believe, are of the same average moral calibre as Azeroth's humans.

As for the Forsaken, I think that many of their kind are amoral and ruthless, merciless and calculatingly cold in combat, but the vast majority are not actively evil as I do not believe that most are interested in causing unnecessary suffering. By and large, they only inflict as much suffering as is required to win victory (in open war), secure their territory and defend the existence they believe is their right. Sure, their methods are gruesome and brutal, but they're affective and efficient. But, I believe that, for the most part, once they have achieved what they set out to do, they are not interested in taking that cruelness further. That's why I describe them as amoral (lacking concern for morality), rather than immoral (being aware of a concept of what is moral and actively going against it).
Even Sylvanas' objectives do not seem to go beyond securing Lordaeron (and surrounding failed states like Arathor) as a safe-haven for herself and, by proxy, her subjects. She doesn't seem interested in causing suffering beyond what seems necessary to achieve that.

[Kaleredar]

Even Sylvanas' objectives do not seem to go beyond securing Lordaeron (and surrounding failed states like Arathor) as a safe-haven for herself and, by proxy, her subjects. She doesn't seem interested in causing suffering beyond what seems necessary to achieve that.

Do note that they out-of-the-blue attacked Gilneas, a sovereign kingdom, before they had re solidified any ties to the Alliance.

[Aquamonkey]

Do note that they out-of-the-blue attacked Gilneas, a sovereign kingdom, before they had re solidified any ties to the Alliance.

Sylvanas didn't attack Gilneas. Garrosh did it using Forsaken forces while Sylvanas was away. She took over upon her return to reduce Forsaken casualties.

[Darmalus]

I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.

This.
The ability to die then come back for a second (or third, or forth, etc.) chance gives you a radically different perspective. Any attempt to analyze their behavior without taking this into account is doomed to failure.

[JhanZ]

This.
The ability to die then come back for a second (or third, or forth, etc.) chance gives you a radically different perspective. Any attempt to analyze their behavior without taking this into account is doomed to failure.

Oh god. Another "The Forsaken are misunderstood" person.

This thread's been beaten to death and any sensible, intelligent person realized long ago that the Forsaken as a majority are evil. There's no reason to keep beating it.

[Coronius]

Orcs aren't necessarily evil. Sure, Garrosh is insane but there's obviously some weird shit going on there. Without wanting to spoil anything, I think Blizzard has stated the reason behind his madness.

I believe the Forsaken to be truly evil however. Not only does Sylvanas do whatever the fuck she wants without consulting the other leaders, the Forsaken-section of the old WoW.com website even described them as "holding no true loyalty to their newfound comrades" and "having duped the other members of the Horde". This was of course a few years ago, but it's obvious that the Forsaken were designed to be evil. At least originally, that might've changed since then.

[Sealed]

The first response was all this thread needed.

JhanZ, you seem to confuse "sensible and intelligent" with "agreeing with me".

[Haven]

Of course the Forsaken are. They are undead and dark and scheming. And orcs are misunderstood noble savages. Dig no deeper.

[Goremonger]

We Forsaken aren't evil per say, all we want is death to the living. :3

[Trassk]

The first response was all this thread needed.

JhanZ, you seem to confuse "sensible and intelligent" with "agreeing with me".

Fact is this, Salandrin hates orcs, he/she keeps making weekly threads about how he/she hates them and wants to demonize them as much as possible. Infact he/she has been banned before due to his/her hate of orcs leading to such negative arguments.

And he/she wants recognition for this to feel like people back him/her on it.

There is no harm in having a debate on what you feel is the pros and cons of lore and what you like and dislike, but trust me, every time Salandrin pops up on these threads it is always be as 'Orcs are Evil, Agree with me!!"

[Lighto73]

I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.

This. Evil is subjective. I view neither party as either, especially as a whole group.

[Notos]

Of course the Forsaken are. They are undead and dark and scheming. And orcs are misunderstood noble savages. Dig no deeper.

Why does being undead automatically make them evil? They have souls and free will, so it seems like they could go either way.

[Calamari]

What you mean to ask is whether Garrosh or Sylvanas is more evil, because the average orc can hardly match the level of batsh*t insane that Garrosh has and the average Forsaken probably doesn't care much about bombing barrels of green goo on people.

[Skytotem]

I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.

"I yearn to run experiments with... fresh venom... have ordered a collection of small, terribly cute animals on which to test it!"
— Apothecary Lydon

The second breath tasted like the purest orphan tears I've ever had. - http://www.wowpedia.org/Diving_Log

http://www.wowpedia.org/Micah_Stonebreaker

http://www.wowpedia.org/Theresa

http://www.wowpedia.org/Lucius_the_Cruel

http://www.wowpedia.org/Apothecary_Azethen

[Aquamonkey]

"I yearn to run experiments with... fresh venom... have ordered a collection of small, terribly cute animals on which to test it!"
— Apothecary Lydon

The second breath tasted like the purest orphan tears I've ever had. - http://www.wowpedia.org/Diving_Log

http://www.wowpedia.org/Micah_Stonebreaker

http://www.wowpedia.org/Theresa

http://www.wowpedia.org/Lucius_the_Cruel

http://www.wowpedia.org/Apothecary_Azethen

Science IRL is full of distasteful experiments. Doesn't make those researchers evil.

[Skytotem]

Science IRL is full of distasteful experiments. Doesn't make those researchers evil.

Uh no.

Scientists irl are held to strict moral standards or they're sent to jail.

[Aquamonkey]

Uh no.

Scientists irl are held to strict moral standards or they're sent to jail.

They are now. You should look up the history of psychology and neurology. Really, any of the life sciences.

Let me just give you an example: The first blood transfusion was performed in 1667 by Jean-Baptiste Denys. He drained the blood out of a 15-year-old boy and then replaced it with the blood of a sheep. Luckily, the boy survived.

[nachoo]

I'd say the Orcs and Forsaken are about as evil as every other race.

[Throren]

Honestly there isn't much difference between the forsaken and the scourge at this point. And the whole, but they can't reproduce argument is stupid. "Oh hey we are running out of forsaken...lets go nuke some villages, kills men women and children, raise them into undeath to bolster our numbers, cause y'know, it's not like we had a deep hate for Arthas for raising us from the dead and using us as a tool...hmm sounds familiar OH WAIT"

Like really.

[Loaf Lord]

Hurp durp Garrosh + crazy kor'kron loyalists = entire orc population amirite?