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  1. #81
    My main was a tank for 6 years or so. I almost never had people pull ahead of me because they didn't have time to. The only person you should slow down for is the healer.

    If they don't dps the right target or do whatever else they're supposed to, it just gives you the chance to get better at tanking in less-than-ideal circumstances. If they die on something that was ultimately their own fault, who cares? If they QQ in /instance, just /violin them or whatever. They'll probably quit after they are the only one dying repeatedly. If you get kicked, so what? Like you said, insta-queue.

  2. #82
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    OP: Welcome to world of tanking!
    I dont think most people in this game know how threat, taunts work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    earth ele is a dps gain for me i use it in my rotation for 25 heroic
    Yeah like you said - in boss fights in raids. But I hate this "excuse" on below that level.
    I usually say something among lines of "Its dps gain to frustrate tank and potentially screw up some mechanic while tank is losing vengeance so your dps gain is their dps loss?" (also noting I, as tank, am mostly number one dps on lower-than-90-level dungeons even on bosses)
    I get silence as answer and just move on. They will use it again. Just makes you grumpy eventually.

    But I bloody hated it when in WoTLK all these fotm retri paladins rolled and used taunt as part of dps rotation (becuase ret "rotation" was just pressing random buttons).
    Why? Taunt did damage. About 100-1000 (at max lvl?) Every damn ret paladin in LFD used it all the time.
    Do they really go like "It has does damage so its dps rite?"

    Installed "Who taunted" and put it to party chat so everytime ret would taunt it would announce it to everyone so i had proof if he died (oh wait he never did cos dungeons were almost soloable when lfd came)


    Best advice OP I can give you is this

    Last edited by mmocd6ad878d9b; 2013-02-16 at 11:07 PM.

  3. #83
    Herald of the Titans Kilpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Seconded, also low level instances you don't really need tanks. Although I have also cleared MoP heroics 4man with no tank.
    No shit you don't? I loved leveling my disco priest, soloed most of the dungeons while they were current content (up to lvl 70 that is). Best was Blackfathom Deeps, I got 5 levels from one run.

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    There's nothing you can do about the roll of the dice in dungeons. Some experiences will suck.
    The only thing you can do to ensure there's a good tank is to be one yourself.

  5. #85
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    First rule when tanking for randoms, be thick skinned and don't care too much about what they say if it's just raging however don't be ignorant to all advice, tips and hints even in a none respectful way given. It's better to laugh at people getting frustrated than getting worked up over it yourself.

    (seen my share of abusers and bad tanks going 'no i'm best tank in this slot bro!')

    Second rule, your taunts are for the healers first and fore most. If a DPS constantly pulls aggro they can either tank it them self or not, I play both tank and dps on several classes. If i'm stupid enough to pull agro repeatedly on something i can't tank i deserved to die and so does any other dps. Also hunters and rogues pulling aggro it goes double for them as nothing more easier to have a macro ready to MD or ToTT the tank.

    Third and final rule, stop caring so much if others pull agro over you. Once you get better you'll rush through a dungeon and adopt the speed run methods like it's second nature.

    Oh yes, you can always play the "let the dumb dps die" game. Especially when grouped up with a healer you know this brings tons of joy.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  6. #86
    Speed isn't everything when it comes to tanking. I have leveled multiple characters of every role and my main is a tank. Nothing is more frustrating in a leveling dungeon than for a tank to feel they must pull multiple packs at a time but can't hold them. This happens a loooooooooooooooot. I much prefer a smooth run than a quick crapfest.

  7. #87
    I pull stuff in heroic dungeons all the time as dps if the tank is slow, but I can also 3 shot most trash mobs so I don't really think about it a lot. I've had tanks cry and whine, and everyone tends to back me up because I'm doing 180k dps and the tank couldn't really hold aggro on me anyways if he pulled it first.

    Honestly its good practice for a tank to set the pacing in a heroic dungeon at the appropriate level, you should only stop if a) you see healer has no mana or b) the healer asks you to stop. Otherwise you should basically be chain pulling instead of wasting peoples time.

    Its also not bad practice to be able to get and hold threat when someone else pulls for whatever reason, it'll hone your threat generating ability. That being said if someone pulls for no good reason then there is a problem, especially if that person can't do the dps or heals to get through what they pulled. If you pull 25k in a heroic dungeon you probably shouldn't be urging the tank to pull faster.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Harekrsna View Post
    I pull stuff in heroic dungeons all the time as dps if the tank is slow, but I can also 3 shot most trash mobs so I don't really think about it a lot. I've had tanks cry and whine, and everyone tends to back me up because I'm doing 180k dps and the tank couldn't really hold aggro on me anyways if he pulled it first.

    Honestly its good practice for a tank to set the pacing in a heroic dungeon at the appropriate level, you should only stop if a) you see healer has no mana or b) the healer asks you to stop. Otherwise you should basically be chain pulling instead of wasting peoples time.

    Its also not bad practice to be able to get and hold threat when someone else pulls for whatever reason, it'll hone your threat generating ability. That being said if someone pulls for no good reason then there is a problem, especially if that person can't do the dps or heals to get through what they pulled. If you pull 25k in a heroic dungeon you probably shouldn't be urging the tank to pull faster.
    These days you shouldn't stop for healers either. If one manages to run oom, then it's probably just wasting all its mana spamming overheals for no reason.

    My paladin, DK, and monk can all deal with almost every pack in any heroic without any heals. Exceptions are (some) entire rooms at once, and even those are usually easy with cooldowns up, and if the healer is oom then you wouldn't pull more than 1-3 packs at once anyway.

    I always get irrirated by healers who ask for mana breaks when they're doing literally nothing useful in the run.
    "Quack, quack, Mr. Bond."

  9. #89
    Best thing you can do for yourself is to stop caring. Levelling warrior tank and priest healer atm and they both have a very different perspective on the game compared to dps, any dps. Healer is much more responsible job than tanking, as someone said already, healer is usually the limit how fast the group can progress not the tank. And at the moment at lower levels <85 at least tanks are the far superior dps classes in the game, blessed with vengeance. As a tank i do 2/3 of almost any groups dps in aoe or single target and that's not in some high end leveling gear, just normal drops here and there and classic gear still in wotlk on and whatnot, which is actually quite disturbing, but that's for the developers to worry. So with a very little effort it's easy to enjoy the gameplay. Except in the particular example op wrote.

    The solution is simple, if someone insists on doing that, let them and let them die. As a healer on my priest it's very easy to spot someone doing that since aggro is usually never an issue for tanks these days and i do the exact same thing, i let them die. Yes they complain in both cases, blame tank and the healer, when they do i reply jwith what they were doing, if they don't accept it or change stance or something, they sure hell won't get a resurrection and i just simply stop listening them no matter how much they nerd rage. I've been levelling 2 characters to past 75 now purely by instancing and not once have the rest of the group voted me out for not responding to someones nerdrages. You play the game for yourself not for the rest of the group, so play it to enjoy it and don't let others ruin it for you. In to left ear and out from the right.

    If want to pull slow and learn, do it, i personally hate it that instances have to be done by chainpulling and rushing, you miss the entire experience that way. Not that you have to stop and talk to every single npc and see the lovely brick textures on walls either. But for example if you do instance quests that require you to collect stuff or use objects, because you're the tank you can't do it mid pull. You do it after the pack, and when you do this someone keeps pulling new mobs, it's just annoying. Dps does all this mid pull while you whack the mobs and they whack you and they then can't wait for you to do the same, for me that's the point it really gets irritating. Other usual example is the righteous fury on paladins, you keep pace up and they keep taking aggro, that's not so bad, but still irritating, thing is to let them die, it's polite to say something the first time, but if nothing changes let them die. There's a lot more to this game than staring at your experience bar to level 89 and how fast it goes up. I can say that the max level ain't that awesome that you should miss the rest of the game before it, even if you have 9 alts past level 85 and have done the experience more than once already. You get a level per instance and new instance nearly every two levels so you won't be running same thing that many times anyway, this chances at max level when people do the same heroic instances day by day hundreds of times, they get bored and want to do things faster. Then you can actually start worrying about pace and faster instances, but by then you've also learned how to play the class efficiently, if you've taken your time learning at lower levels.

    And enjoy the moments when you get a good group who like it the way you like it. Couple good examples while tanking brd. 2 Different groups. Usually everyone's like i want my satchel and "To the high inquisitor!". They get half a level. I said that i do the entire thing and started pulling packs and doing bosses, all of the others by the time we were at the emperor thaurissan, people have gotten like 3-4 levels and on 2 different groups people were like "oh there's an entire instance back here after the inquisitor, never seen it, that's awesome." Maybe it took longer than the normal 5 minutes but people enjoyed.
    Last edited by Redecle; 2013-02-17 at 10:49 AM.

  10. #90
    The Patient Starsinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gephyrophobia View Post
    Yeah.. I just don't understand how a tank can ever get chewed on in a dungeon. You're supposed to be the one chewing on others. The DPS are your bitch, act as such.
    I like this guy.

    Srsly tho. Dps should always wait for 3 sunders and use /assist.
    Last edited by Starsinn; 2013-02-17 at 09:41 PM.
    Being constructive feels good. You should try it.

  11. #91
    there are some very simple and easily applied fixes to your dilema.

    when someone pulls out a pet that you cannot overthreat even if you are uberly geared, let it tank, let it die, then regain agro on the boss. the only one that player is hurting is theirself. while the pet is tanking you are taking no damage which helps to defray healer expenditures. if the healer is going oom because they are healing a pet then you can guarantee that they will say something and help to expidite the ensuing vote kick.

    this is even easier for the idiot ret that insists on putting on rigteous fury. you can even help him by ensuring to pull extra trash mobs who he will over agro from you and then die.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    If a ret pally has righteous fury on, it's a fun challenge. Tanks destroy dps damage leveling up anyway, doesn't matter if they get the threat multiplier or not. During leveling, the vast majority of my dungeons, when the run is over, the tank has done more damage than the three dps and healer combined over the course of the instance. Be that guy.
    not sure what gimmicks you use but ive been a dpser since the end of vanilla and have never been out dpsd by a tank in a 5 man
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  13. #93
    This is one of the more annoying things for me when tanking. It wasnt a huge issue until i dinged level 90 on my alt monk, in just enough gear to get in heroics dungeons, my GF, a healer, was in the same boat. Both of us having high end experience, we can make quite a bit work beyond our normal gear, but that being said, i cant run and pull the entire dungeon like a tank with a few epics would be capible of. Hunters have been the biggest Culprit of this, quite often DPS will either run and pull more, pull when my healer is drinking, or missdirect to me when im not ready for it. Monks are fully capible tanks but some of our survivability we have to get "rolling", its annoying as heck -.-;.

    missdirect and feign death make it so i cant just let them tank what they pull -.-; bah.

  14. #94
    Deleted
    When the tank pulls slowly, ill usually help them by pulling more into his/hers AoE spells.

  15. #95
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    When the tank pulls slowly, ill usually help them by pulling more into his/hers AoE spells.

    and if I was tanking, I'd stop using aoe, and single target, anything I did not pull, you tank.

    if you want to run faster than I am comfortable with, either you tank, or queue with a tank who runs at your speed.

  16. #96
    The only reason anything like this happens is because the 5-mans in WoW are now completely dumbed-down content designed around random yahoos pulled from a queue. In earlier incarnations of the game, there was a much more widespread notion of what constituted acceptable grouping etiquette, and it was pretty consistently enforced on an ad hoc basis by way of kicks and simply not inviting people anymore. This kind of self-regulation of the community does not exist anymore.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihuitl View Post
    and if I was tanking, I'd stop using aoe, and single target, anything I did not pull, you tank.

    if you want to run faster than I am comfortable with, either you tank, or queue with a tank who runs at your speed.
    Ive had tanks thank me for doing just that.
    Anything that's able to be handled by the group as a whole makes the run that much faster.
    Stop being prissy and get sh*t done.

  18. #98
    this situation would be easy to fix. votekick the fail tank. theres not a single non-tank spec that can over-aggro a tank spec, if the Tank would actually Tank. so if you are seeing these types of issues, the problem is likely you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 10:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihuitl View Post
    and if I was tanking, I'd stop using aoe, and single target, anything I did not pull, you tank.

    if you want to run faster than I am comfortable with, either you tank, or queue with a tank who runs at your speed.
    and i refuse to heal tanks that dont actually tank. enjoy your repair bill.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym
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  19. #99
    I got yelled at the other day for pulling to fast, Blood DK in 489+, and really we would have been fine. because after the wipe I pulled just as many and we lived. It was the healer wasn't staying with the group because he wasn't paying attention and he didn't want to get blamed. I have grid mana bars I know you have mana that means keep up and quit watching TV. Most of the time its people pulling too slow that gets a tank yelled at, but as a tank I don't take shit from anyone unless I know I failed and I'll admit it before we are all ghosts that I fucked it up. Most people will blame the tank for their failure. I also run fun raid addons during fives like Who Taunted, Ensidia fails etc...turn on ensidia fails...you'll get a lot less shit from DPS while its spamming their mechanic failure to them. If they ask to turn it off, tell them it doesn't show up unless you fail.

    Get some nuts, as a tank you are the guy who has to be tough regardless. They pull some shit give it a taunt, taunt doesn't work and they keep pulling it let that dude and taunt it after his death. Mark things, use addons that remark things you've marked in the past so when you get to em its marked and you can just roll it. Remember they can kick you if they really want, DPS bands together, sometimes heals follows them, even though tank and heals should always be on the same page.

  20. #100
    The Lightbringer Draknalor186's Avatar
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    84 boomin joined as tank, blamed healer when he died and said "bad healer kick it" then i got kicked for saying" the tank is a frekkin boomin kick him instead"

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