Want to tank? Queue as one or roll one!

[Zoldor]

this situation would be easy to fix. votekick the fail tank. theres not a single non-tank spec that can over-aggro a tank spec, if the Tank would actually Tank. so if you are seeing these types of issues, the problem is likely you.

---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 10:29 PM ----------



and i refuse to heal tanks that dont actually tank. enjoy your repair bill.

lol, do you play a dps spec, in lower level dungeons its easy to pull a mob that the tank isn't tanking. Its not once the tank has them one guy is over aggroing. Its using instant cast high aggro spells on a mob that isn't in the tank pull, and then continuing to dps it. at 90 this shouldn't be a problem you have the entire tool kit, at lower levels you don't. This makes recovering from this a lot harder and usually gets the dps killed.

[RoKPaNda]

this situation would be easy to fix. votekick the fail tank. theres not a single non-tank spec that can over-aggro a tank spec, if the Tank would actually Tank. so if you are seeing these types of issues, the problem is likely you.

---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 10:29 PM ----------



and i refuse to heal tanks that dont actually tank. enjoy your repair bill.

Been a tank since vanilla and it's always been possible to pull things off the tank. Even now with super easy mode threat it's not hard to get aggro if the tank is tanking normally and the DPS is being stupid. If the tank pulls a group and there is a certain mob that needs to die first but one of the DPS goes balls out on another mob it's very likely that they'll pull aggro at least for a couple seconds just because the tank anticipated that everyone would be on the correct mob. You can say that's poor tanking if you want, but tanks aren't psychic and they can't anticipate every stupid thing that the DPS will do.

Also when you refuse to heal tanks you're not hurting the tank, and you're really not hurting yourself. The hurt there for you and the tank is roughly equivalent. Repair costs are pretty much nothing now, and queue times for tanks and healers are quite speedy. All you're really doing is inconveniencing the DPS in the group.

I mostly just ignore complaints by people with ADHD who can't sit still for more than 2 seconds. It doesn't really make a difference to me, it's pretty easy to ignore people. If for some reason they vote kick me that's fine I'll be in another run almost instantly. So as a tank just don't let it bother you, a group can talk as much shit as it wants but tanks never really have to deal with more than a slight inconvenience. If I actually do something wrong I'll admit it, and when I'm DPSing and I see a tank struggling I'll provide them with some tips. There really isn't any reason to be rude to people, of course the main problem is that now there isn't any reason not to be rude to people either because after the run you'll likely never see them again.

[Thelxi]

It is very annoying when people ninja pull things, cause in the end it makes the run take longer but good luck explaining that to them.

[Rotted]

Yes, its very annoying to lvl your 6th character when the tank wants to take it slow and show the entire group who sets the pace and stuff.

And what if that person is a new player, with his very first class,

All your doing then is, teaching him tanks aren't needed to pull and he doesn't have a important role, and that will stick with him until raiding when he will get slobbered for not doing his job right.

Personally, I only have 2 tank alts because of this during leveling, but I've only had this problem once (where it actually annoyed me), and ofc it was a hunter pulling, not that I normally mind DPS pulling and running ahead in lower dungeons, as they can normally solo most of the trash anyways, this was in the brewery, and I only stalled for 5 seconds to pick up the quest and scan the requirements and reward, in that time this hunter managed to bombard the party screen with spam and insults and start to kill the hozen,

So I caught up, said politely I was picking up the quest, and if he would be so kind after that trash I'd take over, well that didn't go down well and he started pulling more, so I apologized to the rest of the party and said I'm not putting up with this shit (mind my language was a little more colourful) he said good go, I said oh but you misunderstand I'm not going anywhere, and I sat down and just generally chatted to this hunter for 15 minutes before they could initiate a vote kick, while he was raging, was hilarious

what made me lol even more, was the healer started the vote kick, but clicked the hunter not me, and put my name in the description box and he got kicked,

EDIT:

I have to confess though, I have a 80 mage that I did heralds on, and to make life easier on her I twinked her with 409s and cata BiS instance quest gear, while I was helping a mate or two also gear for this run by grinding Thrones / BRC I would practically tank the place on my mage, you know, critting between 50 and 75k every hit, guaranteed, it isn't really much of a problem as I'd over aggro anyways, and just so you have a rough idea, those boss's died in less than 7 seconds every time purley from my dps, if my SP mate was me, it would be lucky to see 3 seconds with his instants, I did 160k+ burst on mine, he did more on his in 5.0, only ever had one tank rage at us for running ahead, every other tanks were grateful for a quick run,

[Zoldor]

I mostly just ignore complaints by people with ADHD who can't sit still for more than 2 seconds. It doesn't really make a difference to me, it's pretty easy to ignore people. If for some reason they vote kick me that's fine I'll be in another run almost instantly. So as a tank just don't let it bother you, a group can talk as much shit as it wants but tanks never really have to deal with more than a slight inconvenience. If I actually do something wrong I'll admit it, and when I'm DPSing and I see a tank struggling I'll provide them with some tips. There really isn't any reason to be rude to people, of course the main problem is that now there isn't any reason not to be rude to people either because after the run you'll likely never see them again.

Best advice in here.

[Sesshou]

And what if that person is a new player, with his very first class,

All your doing then is, teaching him tanks aren't needed to pull and he doesn't have a important role, and that will stick with him until raiding when he will get slobbered for not doing his job right.

All the roles are important and no the tanks aren't needed to pull in a dungeon... So you would support him getting a big head that will stick with him until raiding when he will get slobbered for acting like he is in charge of the raid just because he is a tank when he is merely the guilds new tank?

And also, while all of the roles are important, you can easily do a dungeon without 1 role and the easiest role to be without in a dungeon is probably the tank. Going without a healer requires at least a decent tank and probably something like a dps shaman or spriest (love going with our spriest and no healer, 4 dps so its super quick and he doesn't even need to shift out). You can obviously do it without dps, but it would take forever to finish. So this idea that the tank role is any more important is a load of crap.

[Deleted]

this situation would be easy to fix. votekick the fail tank. theres not a single non-tank spec that can over-aggro a tank spec, if the Tank would actually Tank. so if you are seeing these types of issues, the problem is likely you.

---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 10:29 PM ----------



and i refuse to heal tanks that dont actually tank. enjoy your repair bill.

do you refuse to heal dps who dont do their job and avoid aggro? you think its acceptable for a dps to pull mobs when the tank is not comfortable doing that?
if so you and the dps doing it are the reason for teh tank shortage, if you act like an arse towards tanks learning how to tank, then dont expect people to do it.

And dont worry, I can pretty much solo most instances anyway so you not healing is not really a problem for me.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 12:02 AM ----------

Ive had tanks thank me for doing just that.
Anything that's able to be handled by the group as a whole makes the run that much faster.
Stop being prissy and get sh*t done.

If the tank is fine with it, sure go ahead.

But there are many reasons for tanks going slow. they may be new, they may be undergeared, they may not know the instance, they may just not be comfortable running through really fast, the healer may be new, the healer may be undergeared, the healer may not know the instance, the healer may not be comfortable running the instance that fast....

If the tank and healer are fine with it, blitz the instance. If not then ask if they woudl not mind going faster, but if the answer is no, either deal with it, or leave group.

[judgementofantonidas]

84 boomin joined as tank, blamed healer when he died and said "bad healer kick it" then i got kicked for saying" the tank is a frekkin boomin kick him instead"

ha ha ha ha ha ha too funny. I cannot top laughing, ha ha. see still laughing. ha.

[Mackeyser]

All the roles are important and no the tanks aren't needed to pull in a dungeon... So you would support him getting a big head that will stick with him until raiding when he will get slobbered for acting like he is in charge of the raid just because he is a tank when he is merely the guilds new tank?

And also, while all of the roles are important, you can easily do a dungeon without 1 role and the easiest role to be without in a dungeon is probably the tank. Going without a healer requires at least a decent tank and probably something like a dps shaman or spriest (love going with our spriest and no healer, 4 dps so its super quick and he doesn't even need to shift out). You can obviously do it without dps, but it would take forever to finish. So this idea that the tank role is any more important is a load of crap.

So, there's your answer. Keep treating tanks like crap and keep enjoying long queue times.

Problem solved.

QED.

The OP and tanks in general aren't and haven't asked to be thought of as more important. They DO have more responsibility when it comes to raids. There's a reason you hear about both tank and healer burn out among raiders, but never dps burn out. It's because of the strain that comes from shouldering the responsibility for the raid. And learning how to do that happens somewhere, somehow.

You act like the ONLY function for the LFD system is for valor grinding for raiders.

It is not.

It is also the place where NEW tanks go to learn how to tank BEFORE they show up in LFR or in normal modes and have to actually understand how to mitigate, move, damage and CDs. It's where new tanks learn to watch healer mana, patrol mobs and umpteen more things that they probably should have learned much, much earlier, but weren't allowed to because everyone wanted to just get to max level, so learning be damned back then. Now they're at max level, now they're in LFR, how much longer is the learning supposed to be put off?

It is where Off-spec tanks go to get gear and work on their skills before LFR.

It is where current tanks go to work on a new build.

In each of these cases, these folks are trying to be productive, but going fast isn't their prime objective. Sure, it may be a nice by-product, but the new tank may be trying to work on some rotational or priority things. The Off-spec tank may be trying to pull packs, but isn't going crazy pulling because he/she is still optimizing both his/her mitigation and damage rotation/priority set. The new build tank may be able to blaze through the joint or may find the new build stinks on ice and finds he/she really struggles with it or anywhere in between.

Why is it so difficult to play WITH the tanks instead of insisting that unless they are ONLY there for YOUR valor grind super fast dungeon crawl or your super speedy alt transition from 90 to LFR, that there is justification for derision, ridicule and worse.

I've not read tanks wanting to be treated SPECIAL. All I've read are tanks not wanting to be treated like crap. I'm certain there's a difference.

[Deleted]

It is very annoying when people ninja pull things, cause in the end it makes the run take longer but good luck explaining that to them.

This isn't quite true. Yesterday for instance, we were 4 guildies joining a dungeon just to cap VP - 3 dps and a healer. The 2 dps and the healer are heroic geared and I was on a decent alt. We got a pretty slow tank, so we chain pulled for him with MD. At first he got a bit upset, then he decided to just go along seeing the dps were rather insane. The dungeon took about 10 mins and would have taken less time, had the tank listened to us and LoS specific packs.

I'm pretty sure the tank thought we were idiots but only one time one of our dps died and nobody complained. It only takes longer, if you have ignorant people facepulling just to die, cause the healer can't keep up.

[HardCoder]

Some tanks need to chill the hell out.

MANY, MANY DPS need to chill the hell out. (Which is why I don't tank very much.)

If people in random groups could pretend that they were in some kind of cooperative venture, it would be much more pleasant all around.

[Sorrior]

Yes, its very annoying to lvl your 6th character when the tank wants to take it slow and show the entire group who sets the pace and stuff.

And then we have people escorting/teaching new players...When explaining fights that at the CATAn point actually makes learning even a bit worthwhile.

TBH i want blizz to SERIOUSLY buff low level instances. People need to be able to learn their class roles while leveling. But we're not allowed to right now.

[Deleted]

So, there's your answer. Keep treating tanks like crap and keep enjoying long queue times.

Problem solved.

QED.

The OP and tanks in general aren't and haven't asked to be thought of as more important. They DO have more responsibility when it comes to raids. There's a reason you hear about both tank and healer burn out among raiders, but never dps burn out. It's because of the strain that comes from shouldering the responsibility for the raid. And learning how to do that happens somewhere, somehow.

You act like the ONLY function for the LFD system is for valor grinding for raiders.

It is not.

It is also the place where NEW tanks go to learn how to tank BEFORE they show up in LFR or in normal modes and have to actually understand how to mitigate, move, damage and CDs. It's where new tanks learn to watch healer mana, patrol mobs and umpteen more things that they probably should have learned much, much earlier, but weren't allowed to because everyone wanted to just get to max level, so learning be damned back then. Now they're at max level, now they're in LFR, how much longer is the learning supposed to be put off?

It is where Off-spec tanks go to get gear and work on their skills before LFR.

It is where current tanks go to work on a new build.

In each of these cases, these folks are trying to be productive, but going fast isn't their prime objective. Sure, it may be a nice by-product, but the new tank may be trying to work on some rotational or priority things. The Off-spec tank may be trying to pull packs, but isn't going crazy pulling because he/she is still optimizing both his/her mitigation and damage rotation/priority set. The new build tank may be able to blaze through the joint or may find the new build stinks on ice and finds he/she really struggles with it or anywhere in between.

Why is it so difficult to play WITH the tanks instead of insisting that unless they are ONLY there for YOUR valor grind super fast dungeon crawl or your super speedy alt transition from 90 to LFR, that there is justification for derision, ridicule and worse.

I've not read tanks wanting to be treated SPECIAL. All I've read are tanks not wanting to be treated like crap. I'm certain there's a difference.

This I can agree with to some extend. The problem is, that everyone queue for dungeons for different reasons. The LFD doesn't dictate who gets to go there or not, assuming you meet the required illv. As a tank I know how annoying ignorant facepulling is but I also know how annoying a slow as tank is.

My point is, that for anyone to be 100% that their run will go as they want in the pace they want, they have to queue as a premade group. If you want to learn to tank in LFD, you should do so in a premade where people will know and understand your situation. You can't expect others to always just do as you want. That said, there's a big difference between organized MD pulls and facepulling. If I get ignorant facepullers as a tank, I just let them die.

[HardCoder]

TBH i want blizz to SERIOUSLY buff low level instances. People need to be able to learn their class roles while leveling. But we're not allowed to right now.

Do you think 89 levels of "learning" would be good for subscribership? The kind of "learning" that angry forum trolls have in mind?

[Sorrior]

That tank might be the person's first toon and trying the role out in an "easy" dungeon, too.

Or helping a new player learn their role/class and offering advice in whisper to say guildies or friends.

[Reclaimerstyx]

Or are we just not pulling fast enough for them?

protip: pull faster, blame heals if anyone dies

[Deleted]

In MoP heroics you're better off without a tank. Cleared Jade Temple in 5 minutes with 4 dps and a smiting priest.

[Sorrior]

As a tank I'm the one yelling at people for being slow not the other way around.. Always fun when you're halfway done with the last boss in shado-pan monastery and a DPS decides to show up and pull the skip-able packs on his way without even saying "I pulled" or "Shit" because he's checking his facebook during trash and has no clue where we are when he tabs back in and suddenly 20 mobs show up like "Sup man".

LOL i had a healer bitch his ass off when i as tank(and all the dps" pulled them in Shado-Pan. He kpet yelling at us while i tried to hlp the new first timers in the group know....

Same guy IRONICALLY whispered me and said he wanted a good tank(had NEVER seen me before) short of our having a VERY bad lock and over half the group not having done shado pan before thus dying on the lst boss we did damn well.

Ironically once mr "YOU ALL FUCKING SUCK" left we did MUCH better...Still needed to wait for the bad lock to leave but yeah.

Tanks just get alot of abuse and it's really not right.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 09:23 AM ----------

Adopt to the group and tank faster, if the group is truly pulling more then it can handle dps will calm down after a wipe. Also see it as a learning experience, when other players have aggro you will learn to actually tank, being ahead of the group swiping and bloodboiling with full vengeance will not teach you that.
.

I had a DPS who refused to do that. Had a new player healer AND DPS with me tanking. He pulled and pulled and pulled some more. Yeah it was just BFD but i was trying to help with dps and all that.

Ironically he said our healer sucked when i TOLD her not to heal him and claimed he "carried the whole group" why "Cause i'm the only dps"

Umm yeah he was doing more dps then the other guyshe had all heirlooms but weapons and was experienced..I STILL did more DPS then him WITH NO HEIRLOOMS...

But yeah DPS can be the fuckwads as well and TBH i think blizz needs to punish players like that.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 09:35 AM ----------

Do you think 89 levels of "learning" would be good for subscribership? The kind of "learning" that angry forum trolls have in mind?

I think that instances even low level 5 mans having a chance to wipe is good.

[Mackeyser]

In MoP heroics you're better off without a tank. Cleared Jade Temple in 5 minutes with 4 dps and a smiting priest.

Okay. So where do the tanks come from? The Stork?

Heroics serve more functions than just for dps to get their valor. Why is that so hard for folks to understand? I, as a tank, have no beef if a dps forms a group of 4 dps and a heals and rocks a heroic for valor. I'm not threatened in the least. God Bless. Go to it.

If you want a 5 minute run, that's great. Where does a tank go that needs a tanking run to a) learn, b) practice or c) gear?

Why the antipathy for tanks? Do you plan to do raids without tanks? If not, where do the raid tanks learn to be good raid tanks?

Seriously, where? How do we get from point A to Point B? We're not Muppets, we can't "travel by map".