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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    I don't understand why people defend stacking the buff, "it doesn't matter if they cheat, anyone can do it". I don't even run challenge modes but in general you shouldn't have to cheat to win, *cough* tour de france *cough*.
    Because it's not cheating? There is no rule book for challenge modes in WoW.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    I don't understand why people defend stacking the buff, "it doesn't matter if they cheat, anyone can do it". I don't even run challenge modes but in general you shouldn't have to cheat to win, *cough* tour de france *cough*.
    You can say that it is not intended, but it is absolutely not cheating!

    This is a "clever use of game mechanics" VS "not intended" debate, nothing more.

    When you reset a challenge these things happen:
    - you teleport to the beginning, even the dead bodies
    - 3+ min CDs reset
    - all mobs reset
    - timed and kill counters reset
    - all pets despawn

    But neither buffs nor debuffs reset. So instead of making a snapshot of your character at the start and reset to that state blizzard decided that buffs/debuffs shouldn't reset. So it is absolutely not cheating, they didn't do anything against the rules.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by torin856 View Post
    When you reset a challenge these things happen:
    - you teleport to the beginning, even the dead bodies
    - 3+ min CDs reset
    - all mobs reset
    - timed and kill counters reset
    - all pets despawn

    But neither buffs nor debuffs reset. So instead of making a snapshot of your character at the start and reset to that state blizzard decided that buffs/debuffs shouldn't reset. So it is absolutely not cheating, they didn't do anything against the rules.
    5+ min CDs, actually. 3 min CDs don't reset.
    Also, the 10min CD of invisibility potion doesn''t reset.
    And the bl debuff reset too.

    On a slightly related note, the soulstone buff doesn't reset, so you can have two brez with a single warlock.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    some group shaving a second off someone else isn't interesting, discovering methods like this is.
    Funny, I think the opposite. Perfecting your execution to beat your record ever so slightly seems way more interesting to me than looking for exploits.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed View Post
    Funny, I think the opposite. Perfecting your execution to beat your record ever so slightly seems way more interesting to me than looking for exploits.
    I'm talking about interest from the community, not just the people actually doing the run. As I said, this run has caused more interest in challenge modes than anything else bar the first group to get full gold.

  6. #186
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    Oh lord here we go.

    Just get out.
    They found a bug which allowed them to keep your stacks after a reset. Something that is not intended. They used this bug to their advantage (Which by the way, is the definition of an exploit as far as games go).

    Killing adds at the start of the video is a part of your run and such should count as part of your time as well. The entire video is 12:40 with the start missing as well, plus the lack of extra debuff stacks. The actual run took much longer, so your time shouldn't count.

  7. #187
    Deleted
    It's hardly a bug, it just doesn't remove buffs or debuffs. Working as designed.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    This right here. How much you want to bet there is probably an exploit in some form in at least half of the available challenge modes? A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away. And how much you want to bet they will continue to be found for the indefinite future? They going to wipe the boards every time? No.

    • Fix bugs, wipe leaderboards: No persistance. People have to go all over again and reestablish all of their times. Really not acceptable.
    • Fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: New groups are put at a disadvantage at getting top times, something I already mentioned in my first post here
    • Don't fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: People getting top times do the research and find the ways to use the "exploits". Everyone is capable of the same "exploits". I really don't see this as a problem, or at the very least it is preferable to the alternatives above. Unless an exploit appears that is only capable by a particular class or spec, which is not what is being discussed here.
    Challenge modes need seasons, with persistent leaderboards when one is over. That way you can fix bug and reset times without destining exploiters to always sit at the top for the rest of history after the exploits are fixed, and it doesn't diminish the achievements of the people with the top times, as those are forever remembered. It also deals with the serious issue of class changes. Honestly, I don't understand why seasons wasn't a core part of the feature from implementation.
    "Quack, quack, Mr. Bond."

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    It's hardly a bug, it just doesn't remove buffs or debuffs. Working as designed.
    You keep telling yourself that. It's clearly cheating. You can call it anything you like, creative use of game mechanics, whatever you like but it's clearly not intended or you'd just have the buff when you walked into the instance. Not stacking it up, reseting and starting again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 02:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    They found a bug which allowed them to keep your stacks after a reset. Something that is not intended. They used this bug to their advantage (Which by the way, is the definition of an exploit as far as games go)
    This guys knows what he's talking about. The rest defending this cheating are clearly deluded.
    Last edited by Navitas; 2013-02-19 at 02:01 PM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Navitas View Post
    "They found a bug which allowed them to keep your stacks after a reset. Something that is not intended. They used this bug to their advantage (Which by the way, is the definition of an exploit as far as games go)"
    This guys knows what he's talking about. The rest defending this cheating are clearly deluded.
    Then what else should count as the time of the run? Eating food for buff? Buffing up? Crafting flasks? Or even leveling up the profession for it? Maybe grinding the klaxxi repu for the ambers? Or even leveling up characters? Or getting the 463+ gear?
    Of course I am joking, but please realize that this is not as "black and white" as you think.

  11. #191
    The idiots who complain about keeping the debuff: Everyone else is doing the same. These guys did it better.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    The idiots who complain about keeping the debuff: Everyone else is doing the same. These guys did it better.
    One person cheating vs everyone cheating is still cheating. Hey Lance, how's it going?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Navitas View Post
    One person cheating vs everyone cheating is still cheating. Hey Lance, how's it going?
    This word is still getting thrown around, how is it cheating? Where are the rules stating that this is not allowed?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    This word is still getting thrown around, how is it cheating? Where are the rules stating that this is not allowed?
    What word would use? clever use of game mechanics? bug? exploit? Regardless of the terminology used it's still wrong. Guess we just need to wait and see what Blizz have to say if so many people have actually reported this.

  15. #195
    Deleted
    Clever use of game mechanics. This is hardly unique to this one buff/debuff that would actually make it a true bug, just because this is beneficial it's taken advantage off. Going by what ion hazzikostas in his watercooler blog on when it becomes an exploit.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Navitas View Post
    One person cheating vs everyone cheating is still cheating. Hey Lance, how's it going?
    Oh yeah because using the game mechanics to complete something faster is comparable to putting illegal substances in your body. Get a grip.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    Oh yeah because using the game mechanics to complete something faster is comparable to putting illegal substances in your body. Get a grip.
    Considering some people's logic on this subject I say there's a lot of cheating support in this thread.
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  18. #198
    It, WILL get hot fixed, in the mean time, people need to stop bitching. Speed running is Speed running, And by the sounds they got the worlds fastest time. GG. Its a exploit that they found and used. You see more bitching on forums than real life if someone see's someone else "cheat".

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    Oh yeah because using the game mechanics to complete something faster is comparable to putting illegal substances in your body. Get a grip.
    Well if everyone's doing it, it must be OK.

  20. #200
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skit View Post
    It, WILL get hot fixed, in the mean time, people need to stop bitching. Speed running is Speed running, And by the sounds they got the worlds fastest time. GG. Its a exploit that they found and used. You see more bitching on forums than real life if someone see's someone else "cheat".
    I doubt it will be fixed, considering half the runs in there are done resetting with the buff. Everyone knew it, so fixing it will require resetting most times. The part they did and others group didnt was kiting the slimes. So grats to the op.

    It was fairly easy to see for every group going there, if you fail and reset you noticed the buff staying right away. At least we did back then.
    Last edited by mmoc38db56fadf; 2013-02-19 at 03:14 PM.

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