Modern Feminism - What's the deal?

[Deleted]

Some men will stare, some will feel uncomfortable trying not to stare.

Their problem though.. it's not like they're obliged to stare or try to not stare.

[Uennie]

I thoroughly enjoy how people think feminism only extends itself to the United States and those within it.

Try applying it globally, and you'll see it desperately still needs to exist.

[Cybran]

Their problem though.. it's not like they're obliged to stare or try to not stare.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/20...-threw-her-out

Not everyone is okay with nudity.

[Spectral]

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/20...-threw-her-out

Not everyone is okay with nudity.

Breast feeding isn't "nudity" in any meaningful sense. I don't think we should accommodate uptight morons.

[Deleted]

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/20...-threw-her-out

Not everyone is okay with nudity.

I'm well aware of that not everyone is fine with nudity but I find it to be hypocritical to allow men to walk around without any clothes covering their upper body but women are not allowed to. I've been told off for riding a bike to a lake in a bikini during a real warm summer day, by the police. I could "cause accidents due to people not focusing on their driving/on the road if they saw me". It's stupid.

Breastfeeding is not nudity on the other hand.

[Cybran]

I thoroughly enjoy how people think feminism only extends itself to the United States and those within it.

Try applying it globally, and you'll see it desperately still needs to exist.

How do death threats to people help? How does forcing boys out of school and infringing the rights of men in Europe/USA help women in the 3rd world?

[Uennie]

How does forcing boys out of school and infringing the rights of men in Europe/USA help women in the 3rd world?

Because that has nothing to do with real feminism.

[Cybran]

Because that has nothing to do with real feminism.

What is real feminism? The upper middle class housewives that started the "Women suffrage" to get more power or the 70s feminist that wanted to castrate the "walking abortions" known as men?

[Uennie]

What is real feminism? The upper middle class housewives that started the "Women suffrage" to get more power or the 70s feminist that wanted to castrate the "walking abortions" known as men?

The pure equality of the genders. No superiors, no inferiors. Mutual respect. At least, that's how I and many other feminists I know approach it. Do you have a problem with not wanting a superior gender (no matter which it is)?

[Simulacrum]

Pronouns. It can feel pretty shitty to have your sex constantly ignored when group pronouns are used. "You guys" being the prime example. Sort of a prodding notion that you don't belong. For the guys in this thread: if you like cooking/cooking shows, watch something like "Paula's Best Dishes" on Food Network, and you'll get that feeling whenever she calls the audience "girls" or "gals". Again, SUUUPER relatively minor, but improvement can be made.

Outside of gaming, most of my interests are stereotypically female-oriented, and I typically hang out with women and girls, and when I watch a lecture on something, or a TV show, or whatever, aimed at a primarily female audience, I honestly don't care at all when the person on stage refer to the audience as female, because it primarily is. Maybe people should use gender-neutral pronouns more when it's ambiguous, but I don't think that this is an issue that is in any real way exclusionary; I sure don't feel excluded, because I realize the person on stage is just speaking naturally.

Even insofar as it may be a problem in forming stereotypes, feminists are as far from the solution to that problem as is possible. It's right there in their name. They complain about pronouns, and go on and on about how "language matters", and whine about how words like "chairman" are sexist, but they don't seem to have a problem with naming the entire movement after the female gender, and strongly implying that the solution is inherently female in nature. Their goal is not in any way to combat gender biases, but to promote a female gender bias. You'll also notice they don't complain about negative words, such as gunmen, having male connotations, usually justified by the rationalization that, well, most gunmen are men, so it's okay to be gender-biased then (even though it's not okay to be gender-biased in situations where males are just as overrepresented, but the role is a positive one).

I'm all for gender equality under the law, and for equality of opportunity, and I used to call myself a feminist... until I started having conversations with feminists activists, and listening to/reading the opinions of feminists leaders, on things like pronouns, reproductive rights, social ills that affect men far more than women, the biased representation of men in popular culture as perpetual abusers and women as perpetual victims, how it's wrong to perpetuate negative stereotypes of women, but it's okay to perpetuate negative stereotypes of men (the "all men are potential rapists and you should behave accordingly" being the most popular one), etc, and came to realize that the vast majority of their leaders and activists (even if this may not apply to all the random people who donate to organizations like NOW) are totally disinterested in gender equality in any way. They're female chauvinists, plain and simple, and traditionalists at that.

If you ask me, modern feminists don't even have the interests of women at heart anymore, busy as they are with perpetuating extremely negative stereotypes of women as weak, pathetic victims with no agency, and fearmongering to such a degree that it blows my mind. I've read blogs from girls who retell how they've almost suffered panic attacks in public; I read one from a girl who wrote that she locked eyes with a man in public and become convinced that, if there hadn't been so many other people around, he would definitely have raped her right then and there. When I brought up that blog post to a relatively prolific feminist blogger in my sphere of interest, she responded that it was perfectly reasonable for that girl to react the way she did, because her concerns were justified... I don't understand why fostering this narrative is something they are interested in doing, but they sure are going at it in full force.

I thoroughly enjoy how people think feminism only extends itself to the United States and those within it.

Try applying it globally, and you'll see it desperately still needs to exist.

No it doesn't. All it does internationally is marginalize the suffering of men, aiming aid exclusively at women and girls. All we hear about is the rape of women and girls, and the forced prostitution of women and girls, and how women and girls have their faces ruined by acid, and how women and girls are repressed sexually, and how women and girls are forced to wear certain clothes, etc... but you don't ever hear about how those exact same thing also affect men and boys in those same places. You don't hear about how male rape victims (of war rape, among other things) are denied treatment by western aid workers who specialize in helping rape victims, because they're only allowed to help women and girls. You don't hear about boys being sold into prostitution just as the girls are, or how men are forced into the army. You don't hear about how 1/3rd of acid attack victims are male, or how men are repressed sexually, how they can be killed for touching a woman without her permission, or how men also have rules on what clothes they can wear.

You hear stories like the one about the woman who was caught seeing a man without her family's permission, only to be imprisoned for 3 days, raped and tortured while in prison, and then executed. You don't hear that the exact same thing happened to the man she was with.

You see the video of the woman with the blue bra getting beaten (very mildly) by a law enforcer, but you don't hear shit about the thousands of men who are beaten to death at the same time for the same reasons; or when you do, it just flies past you as "just more violence", where the beating of the woman - for the exact same reason as the men was being beaten - is "misogyny".

This is the kind of shit that feminism brings. They normalize the dehumanization of men by ignoring their suffering even when they suffer as much as or more than women, while demonizing them in the process. If we need any ism to deal with shit like this, it's humanism, not this evil dogma.

[Uennie]

No it doesn't. All it does internationally is marginalize the suffering of men, aiming aid exclusively at women and girls. All we hear about is the rape of women and girls, and the forced prostitution of women and girls, and how women and girls have their faces ruined by acid, and how women and girls are repressed sexually, and how women and girls are forced to wear certain clothes, etc... but you don't ever hear about how those exact same thing also affect men and boys in those same places. You don't hear about how male rape victims (of war rape, among other things) are denied treatment by western aid workers who specialize in helping rape victims, because they're only allowed to help women and girls. You don't hear about boys being sold into prostitution just as the girls are, or how men are forced into the army. You don't hear about how 1/3rd of acid attack victims are male, or how men are repressed sexually, how they can be killed for touching a woman without her permission, or how men also have rules on what clothes they can wear.

You hear stories like the one about the woman who was caught seeing a man without her family's permission, only to be imprisoned for 3 days, raped and tortured while in prison, and then executed. You don't hear that the exact same thing happened to the man she was with.

You see the video of the woman with the blue bra getting beaten (very mildly) by a law enforcer, but you don't hear shit about the thousands of men who are beaten to death at the same time for the same reasons; or when you do, it just flies past you as "just more violence", where the beating of the woman - for the exact same reason as the men was being beaten - is "misogyny".

This is the kind of shit that feminism brings. They normalize the dehumanization of men by ignoring their suffering even when they suffer as much as or more than women, while demonizing them in the process. If we need any ism to deal with shit like this, it's humanism, not this evil dogma.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me in with the various others you disagree with. For me feminism has gone beyond just the female gender. It's a global effort to equalize all genders, at least for my friends and I. I as an individual am not these people you hate, and neither are those I socialize with. There are many different kinds of feminism, like people, we're not all the same.

[Spectral]

This is the kind of shit that feminism brings. They normalize the dehumanization of men by ignoring their suffering even when they suffer as much as or more than women, while demonizing them in the process. If we need any ism to deal with shit like this, it's humanism, not this evil dogma.

Are you really claiming that misogyny isn't a valid problem internationally? If not, then that rant was fairly pointless. No one's under the impression that human rights as a generality aren't important, and there are certainly nations where women face additional abuses that men generally do not.

[Elim Garak]

Their problem though.. it's not like they're obliged to stare or try to not stare.

They are obliged to stare by nature and they are required not to stare by society norms.

Make it OK to stare first and only then start flashing your boobs.

[Deleted]

They are obliged to stare by nature and they are required not to stare by society norms.

Make it OK to stare first and only then start flashing your boobs.

I really couldn't care too much about someone looking if I voluntarily exposed my breasts. I've been tanning topless on the beach a few times, if they want to look it's fine by me.

[Cybran]

The pure equality of the genders. No superiors, no inferiors. Mutual respect. At least, that's how I and many other feminists I know approach it. Do you have a problem with not wanting a superior gender (no matter which it is)?

What has feminism done about bringing equality?

[Spectral]

What has feminism done about bringing equality?

Universal suffrage.

[Elim Garak]

I really couldn't care too much about someone looking if I voluntarily exposed my breasts. I've been tanning topless on the beach a few times, if they want to look it's fine by me.

Sadly there are at least ~4000000000 other women.

[Uennie]

What has feminism done about bringing equality?

It must really frustrate you that I don't identify with your definition of feminism, and for that I am sorry. I say this because it seems you really want to make people (me) out to be man-haters, and I love all genders, so you're taking your precious fixed stereotype and running with it.

[Deleted]

Sadly there are at least ~4000000000 other women.

Yes, I'm aware of that but they need not expose their breasts if they're uncomfortable with it.

[Cybran]

Universal suffrage.

In most countries, full universal suffrage – with the inclusion of women – followed universal male suffrage by about ten to twenty years. Notable exceptions were France, where women could not vote until 1945, Italy (1946), Belgium (1948) and Switzerland (1971).

So in most countries men had the right to vote whole 10 to 20 years longer than women? What huge disparity that we have to pay for to this day... So what? Switzerland is one of the most misogynistic and least democratic countries in the world?

Is there anything significant?