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  1. #1181
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Sure, point taken. It is also a free heal.

    Still, I dont see anything interesting playing with Solace as Holy atleast. Very annoying to have to target enemy/boss and cast it on CD. As disc this is natural. I actually prefer using Mindbender on a 1 min CD and I hope it will stay viable.
    You can macro Solace to cast Solace on your target's target (usually the boss in a raid). This will prevent you from being able to cast it on an enemy target...but you can fix that in the macro too! I can't log in to copy it (servers down) right now, but it's useful for me as Disc for Atonement healing and soloing/dailies.

    Not that this would necessarily change your opinion on the talent, just pointing out you can make it easier should you ever decide to use it.

  2. #1182
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotasianchick View Post
    How is secondary stats going ? crit haste and mastery what is bringing best results right now for 10 man ?
    And how is 10 man disc feeling, are you feeling pressured to play a bit differently to get the most out of disc or is it more or less business as usual despite changes?
    I hope disc is feeling pressured to feel differently [in 10s].

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  3. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotasianchick View Post
    How is secondary stats going ? crit haste and mastery what is bringing best results right now for 10 man ?
    And how is 10 man disc feeling, are you feeling pressured to play a bit differently to get the most out of disc or is it more or less business as usual despite changes?
    According to Twistedmind on the blizz priest forums, its haste > crit = mastery. I honestly am not a theory craft guy, im just repeating the what i read. Obviously do not take my word for it lol. He said if Int is worth 1, then haste is like .8, crit .6 and mastery .6. Something along those lines. Just look it up when the forums come back online after maintenance.

  4. #1184
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    Although I've always enjoyed haste, I dont think we have the mana atm to sustain a haste build. Haste might provide the best output, but not if you oom. Crit and mastery are both free healing.

  5. #1185
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    Our secondary statweights should be way lower than that compared to int Vapaad, but you are basically right about the order (even if it obviously depends on your spell usage). Haste will generally be significantly more output than crit and mastery, but you also consume additional mana to make use of it (it's also way better for tankhealing). Mastery should end up very closely to crit, depending on your spell usage (and they scale off each other, so you probably want to balance them in some way), but atonement will be central to disc healing in 5.2 so I will probably be valuing crit slightly higher (since this also affects your dps).

    1 int should be slightly superior to 2 secondary stats (excluding haste, but this obviously requires extra regen) so you will most likely be trying to gem as much int as possible (assuming that you're okay when it comes to regen), while getting pieces with haste as the secondary if you have spare mana and otherwise a mix of crit and mastery. All the secondary stats will have a place come 5.2 (which I really like), and what you should focus on will mainly depend on what your role is as a healer.

  6. #1186
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    You can macro Solace to cast Solace on your target's target (usually the boss in a raid). This will prevent you from being able to cast it on an enemy target...but you can fix that in the macro too! I can't log in to copy it (servers down) right now, but it's useful for me as Disc for Atonement healing and soloing/dailies.

    Not that this would necessarily change your opinion on the talent, just pointing out you can make it easier should you ever decide to use it.
    The thing is I will have to take whatever talent is best and that is that, even though I dislike it, considering I need to perform as good as I possibly can. And no, no macro in the world could make it more interesting:-)

    This is to me yet another spell for disc flavors.

  7. #1187
    Stood in the Fire
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    Haste will be higher than crit or mastery for burst hps, but at the cost of not increasing hpm. Crit and Mastery will be pretty close in value depending on power word: shield usage and personal preference. Crit and Mastery feedback off each other making an exact assessment dependent on gear.

  8. #1188
    correct me if I'm wrong, the new crit change to disc boils down to only removing the crit part of the heal, since the DA part is not changed (200% heal*50% = 100% heal*100%) this looks to me as the biggest nerf ever for anything.

  9. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syri277 View Post
    correct me if I'm wrong, the new crit change to disc boils down to only removing the crit part of the heal, since the DA part is not changed (200% heal*50% = 100% heal*100%) this looks to me as the biggest nerf ever for anything.
    It's balanced out by the change to mastery, which will now affect noncrit heals, that wouldnt have procced aegis anyway, and the possibility of PWS to crit (though PWS itself is nerfed by not being affected by 100% mastery anymore).

    All in all, its taking some from RNG absorbs and making it reliable actual healing, which is nice, but the overall result is very close to what it was before.

  10. #1190
    Blademaster Kaidye's Avatar
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    It's terrible. They took away the ability to crit heal as disc, and increased the amount that DA absorbed when we crit. Yes, the overall end result if you add the absorb and healing together is the same thing - technically it isn't a nerf in that regard.

    It is a LARGE nerf to our actual healing output (just output, not throughput with healing and absorbs considered). How many instances can you think of in which someone actually needed the heal portion of that Greater Heal crit, and not just the absorb tacked on at the end? It completely nerfs our ability to compete in healing gimmick fights such as Tsulong (which, granted, are still gimmick fights and we didn't do all that well in them to begin with). It makes us much less effective with things such as soaking the protectors on Heroic Elegon and the debuff that you need to remove by healing the player to 80% HP.

    It makes for a great time as a raid healer - will probably somewhat negate their desire to stop people from pre-shielding the raid with DA, because it makes our absorbs more powerful. Will be interesting to see the math behind how the mastery nerf to absorbs and buff to healing done will affect throughput in the end.

    All in all, not a fan of the change though. Hopefully its one of those datamined things that doesn't actually happen.
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  11. #1191
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    I somehow really hate that shields can crit now.
    Anyone remember the tier bonus in Dragon Soul that is basically exactly that? It basically came down to hoping that it only procced in high damage phases since a higher shield might prevent Rapture from proccing...

  12. #1192
    Blademaster Kaidye's Avatar
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    Reading all the datamining again, I really don't understand where Blizzard is going with this (again assuming that datamining = fact, which can sometimes cause problems).

    They state they want us to use more PW:S, then nerf both its SP scaling and base absorb as well as nerfing the absorption scaling of mastery itself. Are we getting another mana cost decrease in the future in compensation for the loss in efficiency to a spell they want us to use more?

    I like that PW:S can finally crit, which is long overdue and gives us another stat that affects our spec-defining spell, but it will affect Rapture, especially for people running low damage heroics and whatnot.

    I like that they are buffing our healing done to offset our mastery nerf, but isn't that counter productive when they are turning the crit part of every crit into an absorb? I'm not sure about the numbers (correct me if I'm wrong, obviously), but it looks like we got a 6% nerf to our absorbs and a 6.4% buff to our heals via mastery. That would be all good and dandy if we were allowed to keep our crit heals, and our bonus absorb at the end from DA instead of completely losing our crit heals to absorbs.

    I'm also going to come out and say that, as a healer, it is very satisfying to pop Inner Focus and Greater Heal on a tank that is going down fast, and seeing his health pop up again with a nice little DA buffer. I would be very sad to lose that.
    Last edited by Kaidye; 2013-02-19 at 04:59 PM.
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  13. #1193
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    I somehow really hate that shields can crit now.
    Anyone remember the tier bonus in Dragon Soul that is basically exactly that? It basically came down to hoping that it only procced in high damage phases since a higher shield might prevent Rapture from proccing...
    Well you wanted double bubbles to break because they gave you double the rapture proc. That's not the case anymore since rapture is a set amount based on your static spirit. You'll be casting PW:S on targets that are about to take dmg (e.g: tanks, targets with debuffs on them, incoming aoe dmg). I feel that in this tier I have about 5 to 10% of bubbles that don't break because of lucky tank dodge streaks.
    Last edited by Clebane; 2013-02-19 at 04:59 PM. Reason: added quote

  14. #1194
    Blademaster Kaidye's Avatar
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    Reading all the datamining again, I really don't understand where Blizzard is going with this (again assuming that datamining = fact, which can sometimes cause problems).

    They state they want us to use more PW:S, then nerf both its SP scaling and base absorb as well as nerfing the absorption scaling of mastery itself. Are we getting another mana cost decrease in the future in compensation for the loss in efficiency to a spell they want us to use more?

    I like that PW:S can finally crit, which is long overdue and gives us another stat that affects our spec-defining spell, but it will affect Rapture, especially for people running low damage heroics and whatnot.

    I like that they are buffing our healing done to offset our mastery nerf, but isn't that counter productive when they are turning the crit part of every crit into an absorb? I'm not sure about the numbers (correct me if I'm wrong, obviously), but it looks like we got a 6% nerf to our absorbs and a 6.4% buff to our heals via mastery. That would be all good and dandy if we were allowed to keep our crit heals, and our bonus absorb at the end from DA instead of completely losing our crit heals to absorbs.

    The change to mastery does make mastery affect Spirit Shell again though - Spirit Shell isn't increased by the mastery absorb bonus, but it should be affected by the buff to our healing through mastery.

    EDIT: This was in my first post, I was dumb and used quick reply, and I'm too impatient to wait for a GM. Much less eloquent, but shrug.

    The new change is balanced for throughput maybe (absorbs and healing, the total of what we can do) but not output. They are taking away our actual crit healing and converting it into absorbs. That is not balanced. It makes us much less desirable on gimmick fights (not that we were very valuable to begin with on fights like Tsulong or Dreamwalker way back when), because what is needed is actual output, HEALING; if we could PW:S our way to victory things would be different. It also makes us less useful with fights that have debuffs that need to be healed off (Heroic Elegon, heal the soaker to 80% HP, etc). Yes, these types of mechanics are few and far between, but it doesn't change the fact that our healing was useful before and will be less so afterwards. It might make tank damage easier to handle if a crit-stacking Disc was attempting to build a nice DA before big hits, and would be more feasible to do in a shorter amount of time.


    I'm also going to come out and say that, as a healer, it is very satisfying to pop Inner Focus and Greater Heal on a tank that is going down fast, and seeing his health pop up again with a nice little DA buffer. I would be very sad to lose that. On a personal level, the crit change makes no sense. On a class design level, with their earlier stated intentions, the change makes no sense. On a balance level, the change makes no sense because it will result in even more absorbs going out, with less reliability.
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  15. #1195
    High Overlord Whicker's Avatar
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    God damn... Was the PW: s Nerf and less base mastery Nerf really needed? This is just getting sad now...

  16. #1196
    They nerfed base mastery because it's also increasing all healing now.


    PW:S Nerf was due to them giving PW:S THe ability to crit now.


    Id say both are fairly justified.

  17. #1197
    High Overlord Whicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    They nerfed base mastery because it's also increasing all healing now.


    PW:S Nerf was due to them giving PW:S THe ability to crit now.


    Id say both are fairly justified.
    Pw: S was already nerfed by receiving less abs from mastery witch more then made up for its ability to crit. Id rather have 130k+ pw: s that dont crit vs 80k ones that do...

  18. #1198
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    PW:S Nerf was due to them giving PW:S THe ability to crit now.
    The PW:S tooltip change on the front page is the result of the Mastery change. PW:S itself wasn't nerfed.

  19. #1199
    High Overlord Whicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    The PW:S tooltip change on the front page is the result of the Mastery change. PW:S itself wasn't nerfed.

    are you sure?

    Power Word: Shield (Discipline) SP scaling and base absorb reduced by 6%.

  20. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by Whicker View Post
    are you sure?
    Mastery is reflected in the tooltip.

    Take the Holy value of 233,9% SP * 1,2 = 280.7. The previous value. Now take 233,9 * 1,128 = 263.8%.

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