Jab Nerfed Again :D

[Rakael]

What you can get out of this is that they are probably still experimenting with the mistweaver monks on what to change to get them as balanced as they want them to be. It's also ptr, they probably have their reasons. I'm pretty sure they'll explain why they made the changes when they are happy with where monks are standing.

How do you apply this logic to the Discipline Priests?

Ghostcrawler even went out of his way several times to indicate that not much will change since they're close to shipping 5.2. The point still stands, they don't reply to Monk concerns but at the same time make sure Disc Priests don't feel too "nervous" about the nerfs coming to them. Combine that with the constant flipflopping and the increasingly laughable changes they're making to the way we play Mistweavers and you get the image of a developing team that doesn't know what they are doing.

It's not even based on math anymore. Just wait, you'll see the retarded amount of hotfixes going through 5.2, too.

[Liff]

Part of me wonders whether they're only increasing the mana costs by such a rediculous amounts on the PTR in order to force us to abandon jab uplifting completely for now and test life without it, so that we can give them feedback on these 'other methods' of chi gen. So what people have been talking about "I'll just get 16k mana then and carry on", may just be wasting time, when we could have been giving them data and feedback on alternative healing methods.

I'm not in favor of these changes at all, I enjoy jab healing, but if they're trying to make soothing mist more usable, I will oblige testing it out as they make their changes to it. And I hope that afterwards they revert some of the mana nerfs, so that our play styles can be a little more balanced.

[Manabomb]

Part of me wonders whether they're only increasing the mana costs by such a rediculous amounts on the PTR in order to force us to abandon jab uplifting completely for now and test life without it, so that we can give them feedback on these 'other methods' of chi gen. So what people have been talking about "I'll just get 16k mana then and carry on", may just be wasting time, when we could have been giving them data and feedback on alternative healing methods.

I'm not in favor of these changes at all, I enjoy jab healing, but if they're trying to make soothing mist more usable, I will oblige testing it out as they make their changes to it. And I hope that afterwards they revert some of the mana nerfs, so that our play styles can be a little more balanced.

But this is the problem. We gave them feed back in the beta about how rng chi generation was utterly unreliable. We continue to give them feedback about how rng chi generation is just simply not viable in any raid setting outside of lfr. Either they need to make it a 100% chance to generate chi on the 2nd or 3rd tick of soothing mists with an icd, with rng generation during the remainder of the ticks or they simply need to stop with all the "bad monks, we don't think the way you play is in the direction of we think the class should go and we are going to fix it by separating fw/mw by larger and larger gaps."

[Mithfin]

Soothing mist is clunky and abysmal and clunky and abysmal and terribly clunky and utterly abysmal, there is no way I'll be forced to use it on rotational basis. Guess, SCK and moar spirit it is.


// Inb4 "SCK is now 50% of base mana and trigger muscle memory".

[saeros]

hey blitz, instead of 2% each patch, go like jab 80% mana and tp restore 76% mana, this should work

[Deleted]

nerf + nerf but no change on soothing in this night patch ? WTF ?

WE want to know exactly the numbers they are planning to change on Soothing

Still a beta class, still so much work to do and skill to add and change, but no blue seems to care about us
I feel like MW community starts to get pissed of with this class managment since 5.1

[apepi]

PTR is up, my results were right, uplift is 48000 mana and jab is 24000 mana. I went 0 to full mana in 52 seconds with my stance dance now.

I am getting almost 3-4 chi every time, one or two I only got 2 chi. I don't think it is too bad now.

Well just had one where it is just give me one chi>.<
Now I just got 5 from one..

[saeros]

PTR is up, my results were right, uplift is 48000 mana and jab is 240000 mana. I went 0 to full mana in 52 seconds with my stance dance now.

hey why you have the next patch so early??

btw, while in tiger form, isn't our dps really low and heal nothing? is it worth it?

[Aure]

IMO they want us fistweavers to jab+tp while mantaining blackoutkick buff, rm on cd, chive wave on cd, mana tea when possible, surging mist when free and instant (glyphed imo), uplift as chi dumper(glyphed is not an option) this is the only build that makes sense to me nowadays for fistweavers. It is is mana viable but i still hate the 20yd eminence healing restriction.

[Deleted]

IMO they want us fistweavers to jab+tp while mantaining blackoutkick buff, rm on cd, chive wave on cd, mana tea when possible, surging mist when free and instant (glyphed imo), uplift as chi dumper(glyphed is not an option) this is the only build that makes sense to me nowadays for fistweavers. It is is mana viable but i still hate the 20yd eminence healing restriction.

Mana viable, does fuck all healing though.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 11:03 AM ----------

PTR is up, my results were right, uplift is 48000 mana and jab is 240000 mana. I went 0 to full mana in 52 seconds with my stance dance now.

I am getting almost 3-4 chi every time, one or two I only got 2 chi. I don't think it is too bad now.

Well just had one where it is just give me one chi>.<
Now I just got 5 from one..

There's been no change to soothing

[siccora]

...we also changed Soothing Mist to generate chi more consistently (to avoid long stretches of bad luck) and increased its generation rate overall.

[wakii]

I still wonder, how the fuck shall we AoE heal.

Even with a now better tuned SM. you loose a full GCD while Uplift and its simple to slow. If you only compare us against priests, you can bench all MW's now. But hey we can still tank heal ah no I forgot 5.1 where they nerfed our single target to the ground. I hope one of our raid healers will carry me caues I dont have the time for lvling another healer though I expect to be benched in 5.1.

Sadly we dont have many MW's around so our community is simple not first on list. I saw that from 5.0 to 5.1 where we got nerfed so fast but priest with spirit shell never got touched. Its an simple recource allocation, biggest community gets most attention so MW will end up like elemental shamys cheers.

[Deleted]

...we also changed Soothing Mist to generate chi more consistently (to avoid long stretches of bad luck) and increased its generation rate overall.

Increased it's generation rate overall.

Now, I'm not exactly a mathematician, but increasing the rate at which something happens requires there to be an adjustment to the probability, and I see nothing regarding that in patch notes. More than likely that change is still in an internal build, there's been no change to Soothing on the PTR. Even if there was, it's not measurable without a significant sample size comparison between the PTR and live which you're more than welcome to provide.

[siccora]

*delete pls*

[Mithfin]

...we also changed Soothing Mist to generate chi more consistently (to avoid long stretches of bad luck) and increased its generation rate overall.

Well, the person above you just stated the "1 chi per whole SM channel" situation. Looks like a "long stretch of bad luck" to me.

[apepi]

hey why you have the next patch so early??

btw, while in tiger form, isn't our dps really low and heal nothing? is it worth it?

After so many zeros i end up adding to much..I think blizzard has the same problem. You stance dance to gain mana, not to get good dps or hps. It is okay thought, about 10k hps per sec that you gain mana with, you do not just stay in tiger stance.

[saeros]

After so many zeros i end up adding to much..I think blizzard has the same problem. You stance dance to gain mana, not to get good dps or hps. It is okay thought, about 10k hps per sec that you gain mana with, you do not just stay in tiger stance.

i understand that was for regen mana, but i was trying to understand if we can do that only in very low damage phases or if somehow it was viable even in other phases
btw, doesn't things get better if we use an agi staff in tiger stance?

[Deleted]

i understand that was for regen mana, but i was trying to understand if we can do that only in very low damage phases or if somehow it was viable even in other phases
btw, doesn't things get better if we use an agi staff in tiger stance?

Why...? the only reason he's saying to stance dance like that is because Jab has an energy cost in tiger stance and you can retain one chi switching over to regain mana through spending it in SotWS.

[Aure]

requesting topic title change to Jab Nerfed Again and Again and Again. thank you

[Felade]

If you want to fistweave and do comparable healing to a regular, non-dpsing healer, forget it. That's what they're most worried about. The deal has always been that healers can do damage, but at a tradeoff in actual healing, which is not true with fistweaving on live and is the real problem with Jab-Jab-Uplift.

I'm not sure if they've provided us with a viable way to generate Chi outside of Jab, though. The buffs to Soothing were nice, especially since I found it already fairly dependable for what I used it for - single target. However, using Soothing to do AOE healing doesn't sound very good. It just doesn't fit a lot of damage patterns - "Oh the boss is about to do a big AOE hit I better channel Soothing on a full hp tank to generate some Chi so I can Uplift".

It sounds to me like we're between a rock (The devs want us to choose between healing and fistweaving) and a hard place (there are times that we need more than just the baseline chi - not often, but we do - ). I don't think Soothing is the right direction, but perhaps that will come out through testing and we'll see some better options for Chi generation.

The note definitely belongs in the 'DPS tuning' section - they're worried that Fistweaving is too good, and when enrage timers are tight, there's too much incentive to stack Monks (and Priests).