Mists of Pandaria Asian Chinese style expansion

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I don't get your point, classic wow had plenty lore heavy bosses.

It did, but it was never focused on one. There was no Rag before Classic, there was no C'thun or Ony. It created bosses, just like what MoP is doing.
And besides this is just one example.

[BatteredRose]

I also think it's foolish to create a whole expansion around lore that's basically "created"

...

All lore is created. What the hell are you smoking?

[AbalDarkwind]

Elaborate.

It has a theme of exploration, like Vanilla, and is the entire backdrop to a war that has major parallels with Warcraft II. Orcs and friends versus Humans and friends. Garrosh mirrors Orgrim Doomhammer just as Varian mirrors Anduin Lothar. The Horde pushing heavily and nearly winning until a faction splits off and betrays them (The Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer in Warcraft II, the entire Horde outside of Garrosh loyalists in MoP). The Alliance rallying to ultimately route and defeat the Horde, at Blackrock Spire in Wacraft II and at Orgrimmar in Mists of Pandaria. Thrall is acts as foil for Gul'dan in that Thrall becomes the rallying point for the Horde rebellion much as Gul'dan became the rallying point for the Horde rebels in Warcraft II; the foil comes into play in that Thrall is the ultimate good guy while Gul'dan was the ultimate bad guy.

Pandaria is just a different coat of paint with themes that date back to over 15 years ago.

I don't get your point, classic wow had plenty lore heavy bosses.

It did? I count Kel'thuzad, Balnazzar, Rend Blackhand, and that's about it.

[haaku]

It did, but it was never focused on one. There was no Rag before Classic, there was no C'thun or Ony. It created bosses, just like what MoP is doing.
And besides this is just one example.

If you think classic created some of the pillars in warcraft lore, old gods, black dragonflight, the four champions of the old gods, i think you are wrong.

---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 07:07 PM ----------

...

All lore is created. What the hell are you smoking?

Read my whole sentence. My opinion is that panda is lore that's created pretty much out of nothing, yes that's how lore becomes lore, but i don't agree the way it was done, nor how they chose to base a whole expansion of it.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

If you think classic created the pillars of the warcraft lore, old gods, black dragonflight, the four champions of the old gods, i think you are wrong.

I never said it did, all I'm saying is they never had names, or some were not created yet.

[AbalDarkwind]

If you think classic created the pillars of the warcraft lore, old gods, black dragonflight, the four champions of the old gods, i think you are wrong.

Old Gods existed in one paragraph of the Warcraft III manual, had a little background in the War of the Ancients trilogy, and that was all we knew. Their names, purpose, appearance, etc. were all created wholesale beginning in patch 1.9 with C'thun. Also, what the hell are "The Four Champions of the Old Gods"?

As for the Black Dragonflight, we knew the name of a grand total of one of them before WoW: Deathwing.

[haaku]

It has a theme of exploration, like Vanilla, and is the entire backdrop to a war that has major parallels with Warcraft II. Orcs and friends versus Humans and friends. Garrosh mirrors Orgrim Doomhammer just as Varian mirrors Anduin Lothar. The Horde pushing heavily and nearly winning until a faction splits off and betrays them (The Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer in Warcraft II, the entire Horde outside of Garrosh loyalists in MoP). The Alliance rallying to ultimately route and defeat the Horde, at Blackrock Spire in Wacraft II and at Orgrimmar in Mists of Pandaria. Thrall is acts as foil for Gul'dan in that Thrall becomes the rallying point for the Horde rebellion much as Gul'dan became the rallying point for the Horde rebels in Warcraft II; the foil comes into play in that Thrall is the ultimate good guy while Gul'dan was the ultimate bad guy.

Pandaria is just a different coat of paint with themes that date back to over 15 years ago.



It did? I count Kel'thuzad, Balnazzar, Rend Blackhand, and that's about it.

Try harder, lol.

[Flaks]

I assume you aren't familiar with the fact that Outland was called Draenor before it's destruction? Named after and by the Draenei?

And yet "Draenor" isn't even remotely "Draenorian" considering the utter lack of Draenei around (yes, that includes the Broken). There was also far more variation in everything. Most of the inspiration for the lands, lore and characters was unique. And when it held cultural references they weren't in your face blatant ones. My point stands, Pandaria tries WAY too hard to be "Asian". Hell, even WotLK with its rather blatant Norse inspiration was more subtle about it.

[Deleted]

Did you miss the part where Chen Stormstout was a part of the Founding of Durotar?

Yeah I did miss. Didnt really know about that. I apologize for my ignorance.

[haaku]

Old Gods existed in one paragraph of the Warcraft III manual, had a little background in the War of the Ancients trilogy, and that was all we knew. Their names, purpose, appearance, etc. were all created wholesale beginning in patch 1.9 with C'thun. Also, what the hell are "The Four Champions of the Old Gods"?

As for the Black Dragonflight, we knew the name of a grand total of one of them before WoW: Deathwing.

Don't you see the difference between basing a whole expansion out of nearly nothing versus creating the daughter of Neltharion (Ony) for a raid?

[BatteredRose]

Read my whole sentence. My opinion is that panda is lore that's created pretty much out of nothing, yes that's how lore becomes lore, but i don't agree the way it was done, nor how they chose to base a whole expansion of it.

Without lore being created from nothing, the Warcraft universe wouldn't exist (nor would any story in the world for that matter) so your gripe about them expanding upon the Pandaren and creating a story around Pandaria feels rather pointless, despite the fact that you "hates da stowy they did for its."

You also have a selective memory if you hate the fact that they have an expansion revolving around a major plot for just this expansion, as they've done such a thing already.

Edit:

Considering the posts a couple of certain people have made, said certain people are either Vol'jinning or they just don't know what they're talking about. I'm outty.

[AbalDarkwind]

Try harder, lol.

The irony of this post is astounding.

And yet "Draenor" isn't even remotely "Draenorian" considering the utter lack of Draenei around (yes, that includes the Broken). There was also far more variation in everything. Most of the inspiration for the lands, lore and characters was unique. And when it held cultural references they weren't in your face blatant ones. My point stands, Pandaria tries WAY too hard to be "Asian". Hell, even WotLK with its rather blatant Norse inspiration was more subtle about it.

That would be because Outland was a vastly changed place from Draenor.

Also, "Asian" isn't a culture. By lumping them all together, you are showing a severe lack of cultural understanding for the various influences Pandaria has from countries in Southeast Asia.

Don't you see the difference between basing a whole expansion out of nearly nothing versus creating the daughter of Neltharion (Ony) for a raid?

You mean like how Warcraft III completely made up Kalimdor, the Night Elves, the Scourge, the Burning Legion, "good" Orcs, and everything else they magically conjured up in that game that wasn't even hinted at in Warcraft II?

[haaku]

Without lore being created from nothing, the Warcraft universe wouldn't exist (nor would any story in the world for that matter) so your gripe about them expanding upon the Pandaren and creating a story around Pandaria feels rather pointless, despite the fact that you "hates da stowy they did for its."

You also have a selective memory if you hate the fact that they have an expansion revolving around a major plot for just this expansion, as they've done such a thing already.

Edit:

Considering the posts a couple of certain people have made, said certain people are either Vol'jinning or they just don't know what they're talking about. I'm outty.

I think they created too much of too little yes.

---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 07:20 PM ----------

The irony of this post is astounding.

I was referring to your last part of your previous post, sorry.

[Ifeanychukwu]

I don't like the asian style.
I also believe they didn't develop the "norse aspect" of Northrend enough. But maybe that is because i love norse mythology and stuff.

I agree. I feel like they over did it in some respects although the land is very, very beautiful. Wrath had my favorite theme by far but I suppose they could have improved it a little.

[AbalDarkwind]

I was referring to your last part of your previous post, sorry.

You mean outside of the three bosses I mentioned? I literally just combed WoWpedia just to make sure I was right. Since you believe otherwise, the burden of proof now shifts to you to prove that other bosses were "lore heavy" in vanilla. Outside of the three I mentioned, none of the other bosses appeared or were mentioned before their appearance in WoW. In fact, Rend was only mentioned; he didn't even have a unit in Warcraft II.

[haaku]

You mean like how Warcraft III completely made up Kalimdor, the Night Elves, the Scourge, the Burning Legion, "good" Orcs, and everything else they magically conjured up in that game that wasn't even hinted at in Warcraft II?

You don't really get my point do you?

---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 07:29 PM ----------

You mean outside of the three bosses I mentioned? I literally just combed WoWpedia just to make sure I was right. Since you believe otherwise, the burden of proof now shifts to you to prove that other bosses were "lore heavy" in vanilla. Outside of the three I mentioned, none of the other bosses appeared or were mentioned before their appearance in WoW. In fact, Rend was only mentioned; he didn't even have a unit in Warcraft II.

Please free to post links to every boss in vanilla whose lore came out of the clear blue sky.

[AbalDarkwind]

You don't really get my point do you?

Is your point "I don't like Mists of Pandaria because Blizzard created a whole bunch of lore that wasn't even hinted at before Mists of Pandaria came out"? Because, if it is, then yes, I do, and my analogy was spot on. Warcraft III did the exact same thing Mists of Pandaria did. In fact, so did vanilla, or had you heard about every boss and zone in Vanilla before WoW came out? Because I had never heard of C'thun, Nefarian, Onyxia, Ragnaros, Marudon, Desolace, Feralas, Silithus, Tanaris, Zul'Gurub, Hakkar, Stranglethorn Vale, Gnomeregan, Thunder Bluff, Baron Rivendare, General Drakkisath, the Wailing Caverns, Naralax, and I could really go on for pages with this before I started playing Vanilla.

[haaku]

Is your point "I don't like Mists of Pandaria because Blizzard created a whole bunch of lore that wasn't even hinted at before Mists of Pandaria came out"? Because, if it is, then yes, I do, and my analogy was spot on. Warcraft III did the exact same thing Mists of Pandaria did. In fact, so did vanilla, or had you heard about every boss and zone in Vanilla before WoW came out? Because I had never heard of C'thun, Nefarian, Onyxia, Ragnaros, Marudon, Desolace, Feralas, Silithus, Tanaris, Zul'Gurub, Hakkar, Stranglethorn Vale, Gnomeregan, Thunder Bluff, Baron Rivendare, General Drakkisath, the Wailing Caverns, Naralax, and I could really go on for pages with this before I started playing Vanilla.

I don't like Mop at all, not that i don't like the zones, some are cool.

Vanilla was the first, it was where blizzard expanded the wow universe, based on lore they had in mind, wished to create. It's a huge puzzle. It's all connected in the end. Naming raid bosses that was created with JUST THAT lore in mind is not an argument. Rather you should focus on mop.; tell me how those little threads of panda existence in the wow lore justifies a whole expansion? I don't think it's justified, convince me otherwise.

[AbalDarkwind]

Please free to post links to every boss in vanilla whose lore came out of the clear blue sky.

I'll ignore any boss related to a pre-existing orginization because, even if individuals weren't featured, basic lore was established about their factions.

-Any boss with the Twilight's Hammer, which was strictly an Orc/Ogre clan before Vanilla, and still hasn't received an explanation on why it no longer is. Their lore was also originally about demons, not the Old Gods.
-The entire Scarlet Crusade, including all of Scarlet Monastery
-The Qiraji and Silithid, including all of Ahn'Qiraj outside of C'thun (Old Gods were previously mentioned)
-Anything to do with the Nightmare, including all of the Wailing Caverns
-The "Dark Horde" led by Rend Blackhand
-The Dark Iron clan of Dwarves, including all of Blackrock Depths
-All of Deadmines, including the idea of the Stonemason rebellion and their leader, Edwin Van Cleef
-The Worgen
-The Zandarlari Trolls
-Hakkar the Soulflayer, and the Gurubashi Empire, including all of Zul'Gurub
-The Farakki trolls and all of Zul'Farrak

I don't like Mop at all, not that i don't like the zones, some are cool.

Vanilla was the first, it was where blizzard expanded the wow universe, based on lore they had in mind, wished to create. It's a huge puzzle. It's all connected in the end. Naming raid bosses that was created with JUST THAT lore in mind is not an argument. Rather you should focus on mop.; tell me how those little threads of panda existence in the wow lore justifies a whole expansion? I don't think it's justified, convince me otherwise.

The bolded part is blatantly false. Warcraft I created the Warcraft universe, Warcraft II expanded it, Warcraft III greatly expanded it and set the foundation for World of Warcraft, and Vanilla filled in the blank spots that Warcraft III left out.

As for Mists itself, the Pandaren have been a mystery since Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne's Orc Campaign, the Founding of Durotar. This mystery continued into Vanilla with the quest "Chen's Empty Keg". The Pandaren obviously came from somewhere and Blizzard knew they had to address it. As for why did it justify an entire expansion? That's simple; the Pandaren were, according to Blizzard, the most requested addition in the game by a large margin. Rather than just plop them in a starting zone and call it a day, they saw potential for something new. Furthermore, Mists of Pandaria isn't just about the local Pandarian problems; it's also about the war between the Alliance and the Horde, and that has been core to the setting since Warcraft I.

Warcraft III did the same thing when it introduced previously unknown concepts such as the Night Elves, Tauren, the Undead (Both the Scourge and Forsaken) as well as the entire continents of Kalimdor and Northrend. Warcraft III did the "brand new lore" thing 11 years before Mists of Pandaria. Just because you weren't there to make the transition from Warcraft II to III and see such a jarring expansion of the setting doesn't mean it didn't happen. This is just your first rodeo with the expansion of the setting; it's my third (I saw the expansion from I to II, II to III, and again now in Mists of Pandaria).

I'm not here to make you like the game. I'm here to show you that your argument is extremely narrow in scope since you refuse to acknowledge that Warcraft existed before World of Warcraft came out.

[haaku]

The first wow, thought you'd understand as much. No point to read anything further for me.