Varian should be exiled from the alliance.

[Eats Compost]

Trolls were there before the Titans even showed up. They are a native species to the planet, they were not created.

That isn't known as a certain fact. Trolls existed before the Titans' second visit to Azeroth (when they came to slap the Old Gods' shit) from official sources, but we don't know if they existed before the Titans' first visit.

[Eats Compost]

Just to try to shoot the fox. WoW conflicts are more or less "grey" like real life ones - with the exception of the Burning Legion and the Old Gods.

No one is really at fault. It's mostly a very unfortunate chain of events, one leading to another, perpetuate by "neutral" but flawed characters.

No, it's not a series of "unfortunate" events. It's a series of terrible (and obviously terrible, at that) decisions that get made again and again and again, written in for the sole purpose of perpetuating a pointless conflict.

[mordale]

Trolls were there before the Titans even showed up. They are a native species to the planet, they were not created.

they were here when the titans returned, return being the key part.
but assuming they were here before that still doesn't change the point that they were never the owners of azeroth.

[Justignoreme]

I also meant Fandral, who may not have summoned him but became his second hand man

You are going to mention Fandral, but then use the Burning Legion as an excuse for Orcish aggression; Fandral was corrupted through and through. He was removed from power and imprisoned for trying to kill Malfurion. Who would've thought a green dragon would've sided with him to deliver him to the Twilight's Hammer. He was also Ragnaros' majordomo. Interesting tidbit about lore with respect to the Druids of the Flame. Had it not been for the Horde, they wouldn't have existed either...

[Thrive]

The only one keeping a grudge is Garrosh and his youngling orc followers whom never fought in the third war. Night Elves weren't going into Orc land for anything. Night Elves rallied under the Command of Saurfang in Silithus as well. This crap of "old grudges" is awefully one-sided. You, and dozens of horde fanbois, seem to take issue with the Night Elves defending their home and resources.

I take issue with the Alliance fanboys trying to stand high and mighty when their faction committed more than enough attacks to justify the horde and their grudges. Not that I'm saying the Horde hasn't, just that the Alliance like to pretend they are innocent.

[leaks]

And they were hardly peaceful, as we can see by their friendship with the Mogus. Perhaps the troll scum thought they could try to enslave the Night Elves, and overstepping their bounds resulted in the fastest destruction of an empire in the history of Azeroth.

I don't think trolls being aggressive is news to anyone. I'm just pointing out that they weren't made by the titans.

[SodiumChloride]

No, it's not a series of "unfortunate" events. It's a series of terrible (and obviously terrible, at that) decisions that get made again and again and again, written in for the sole purpose of perpetuating a pointless conflict.

That's is Blizzard half-ass writing for you. LOL.

Seriously, they have billion of dollars and they can't get a decent writer from Hollywood?

[leaks]

That isn't known as a certain fact. Trolls existed before the Titans' second visit to Azeroth (when they came to slap the Old Gods' shit) from official sources, but we don't know if they existed before the Titans' first visit.

Yes it is. It was stated during one of the Q&A's with the lore team.

[Thrive]

they were here when the titans returned, return being the key part.
but assuming they were here before that still doesn't change the point that they were never the owners of azeroth.

Yes they were. The Gurubashi and Amani empires had total control of the Azeroth before a sect of humanoids, believed to be trolls, discovered the well of eternity and magic and destroyed the Great Empires (great only because of the land they controlled, as they were excessively violent and savage.) These humanoids later came under the name of Elves.

[mordale]

I take issue with the Alliance fanboys trying to stand high and mighty when their faction committed more than enough attacks to justify the horde and their grudges. Not that I'm saying the Horde hasn't, just that the Alliance like to pretend they are innocent.

iis there a broken record in hear cause thats the umpteenmillionth time i've heard that excuse.

no the alliance has commited some down right evil acts, yet there is generally a reason or cause for it.
the horde on several occasions has done evil acts without justification.

thats what it boils down to, justification.

[Justignoreme]

I take issue with the Alliance fanboys trying to stand high and mighty when their faction committed more than enough attacks to justify the horde and their grudges. Not that I'm saying the Horde hasn't, just that the Alliance like to pretend they are innocent.

No, sorry, they haven't. Grudges were set aside under Thrall. Garrosh, wasn't motivated by grudges, he was motivated by the mentality of "everything should belong to the Horde, specifically the Orcs because we are the strongest and the best, and we will prove it by violently attacking and taking what we want". This has been verified countless times and it's the younger generation of Orcs and specifically Orcs that go along with his plan without pause or question, which is what is causing the internal conflict within the horde itself. The bastard has nothing to hold a grudge over. Neither do the young generation of orcs which are enthralled with him.

So please, re-read the story, get a better grasp of it if you are going to argue about its details.

[mordale]

Yes they were. The Gurubashi and Amani empires had total control of the Azeroth before a sect of humanoids, believed to be trolls, discovered the well of eternity and magic and destroyed the Great Empires (great only because of the land they controlled, as they were excessively violent and savage.) These humanoids later came under the name of Elves.

compared to the titans and old gods the trolls are nothing, its them who own azeroth.

twice azeroth has been in risk of being destroyed by them or their tech.

even excluding them the trolls NEVER had complete control of azeroth.
the fought constantly with the insect empires and the feral titanic constructs.

any way you cut it the trolls never controlled all of azeroth.

[Thrive]

And they were hardly peaceful, as we can see by their friendship with the Mogus. Perhaps the troll scum thought they could try to enslave the Night Elves, and overstepping their bounds resulted in the fastest destruction of an empire in the history of Azeroth.

The trolls had no idea the Elves existed before they swarmed on the Empires with their magic, and Trolls are known for slavery, so no, they wouldnt have enslaved the Night Elves.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:40 AM ----------

compared to the titans and old gods the trolls are nothing, its them who own azeroth.

twice azeroth has been in risk of being destroyed by them or their tech.

even excluding them the trolls NEVER had complete control of azeroth.
the fought constantly with the insect empires and the feral titanic contructs.

Very true, the Insect empires were the others, but regardless the Night Elves came down on them to. I wasn't specifically referring to the trolls.

[Mayhem]

And they were hardly peaceful, as we can see by their friendship with the Mogus. Perhaps the troll scum thought they could try to enslave the Night Elves, and overstepping their bounds resulted in the fastest destruction of an empire in the history of Azeroth.

uhm aren´t trolls ancestors to the high elves?

[Justignoreme]

The trolls had no idea the Elves existed before they swarmed on the Empires with their magic

That's not true, at all

and Trolls are known for slavery, so no, they wouldnt have enslaved the Night Elves.

Speculation based on the fact that Mogu enslave everything, Trolls could easily have seen it as a way to try and control the growing Night Elf empire. The closest suggestion to how the war between them started was the Night Elves were aiding the Pandaren and just decided to crush the Trolls when they were done. Doesn't make a lot of sense; that part was not fleshed out at all. Not even in 5.2, to my dismay.

uhm aren´t trolls ancestors to the high elves?

No.

[Thrive]

No, sorry, they haven't. Grudges were set aside under Thrall. Garrosh, wasn't motivated by grudges, he was motivated by the mentality of "everything should belong to the Horde, specifically the Orcs because we are the strongest and the best, and we will prove it by violently attacking and taking what we want". This has been verified countless times and it's the younger generation of Orcs and specifically Orcs that go along with his plan without pause or question, which is what is causing the internal conflict within the horde itself. The bastard has nothing to hold a grudge over. Neither do the young generation of orcs which are enthralled with him.

So please, re-read the story, get a better grasp of it if you are going to argue about its details.

I feel like you think I like Garrosh. I don't. But I do like the Orcs as a race, and they have reasons to mistrust elves.

[SodiumChloride]

iis there a broken record in hear cause thats the umpteenmillionth time i've heard that excuse.

no the alliance has commited some down right evil acts, yet there is generally a reason or cause for it.
the horde on several occasions has done evil acts without justification.

thats what it boils down to, justification.

So slaughtering an undefended Tauran hunting outpost is justifiable ... right ...

Both sides have made countless mistakes and errors in judgement. All the quest text in-game is 100% biased - intentionally - because most of the NPCs are operating under the same propaganda.

[Aquamonkey]

Kalecgos (and to a lesser extent Thrall) talked her down from using the Focusing Iris and her army of Water Elementals from flattening Orgrimmar, but Varian has been keeping Jaina in check post-Dalaran. She finally circumvents his request in 5.2. From Dalaran until 5.2, she's been wanting to attack the Horde with the Kirin Tor, but Varian was telling her to wait. For as crazy as she is becoming, she's not batshit insane yet.

Thrall tried to talk her down, but she's too mad at him and tried to murder him. After fighting fiercely for a while, she was about to score a killing blow when Kalec showed up and talked her down.

Varian tried to get Jaina to commit the Kirin Tor to the Alliance and kick out the Sunreavers. When she refused, Varian tried to negotiate an induction of the Blood Elves. Then she Purged the Sunreavers from Dalaran, screwing up Varian's new plan. She is pretty batty, she's flipping back and forth between extremes. One moment she's sympathetic to the plight of the Horde, then she's on a murderous rampage, then she's calm and understanding, then she's in another rage. Supposedly she calms down long enough to work with the Horde in 5.2.

[Justignoreme]

I feel like you think I like Garrosh. I don't. But I do like the Orcs as a race, and they have reasons to mistrust elves.

And the Night Elves have many many more reasons to dislike, mistrust, and want nothing to do with Orcs, especially after Cataclysm events. Still the mistrust is aimed at the leadership and not the people.

[mordale]

The trolls had no idea the Elves existed before they swarmed on the Empires with their magic, and Trolls are known for slavery, so no, they wouldnt have enslaved the Night Elves.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:40 AM ----------


Very true, the Insect empires were the others, but regardless the Night Elves came down on them to. I wasn't specifically referring to the trolls.

the trolls can and do take slaves, generally they will only use the souls of the enslaved.



thats alot of others for a group that supposedly had "total control" of all of azeroth.


stop talking out of your ass you blatant lair.