Jab Nerfed Again :D

[Chimerian]

I think they are lying tbh, i always get at least 2 chi per soothing mists. However i rarely see 4 and never seen 5 so I think it could be a downside tbh when rng gods favor you

This is what I got on the day of the Soothing Mists change:

Out of about 1000 full casts of Soothing Mists, with 9 ticks per Soothing Mists I got the following:

1 chi: 1%
2 chi: 23%
3 chi: 42%
4 chi: 25%
5 chi: 9%

So the chi proc rate is roughly 35%, however it is considerably rare to only get 1 chi, but you cannot get more than 5 chi.

During tonight's testing on the Twin Consorts I observed a couple times that a full channel of soothing mists only generated 1 chi, which is pretty frustrating when you want to generate chi before Cosmic Barrage hits without spending 48k (if you could even find a safe spot in melee as a mw) mana through jab. So generating only 1 chi still happens, but rarely.

[nowish]

"The Glyphed version of Uplift now costs 16% of base mana (was 6.6%) to cast."
HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAH Blizzard sure knows how to fuck with people D

[Deleted]

Looks like we're going to need as much haste as we can get then to offset these nerfs. Spamming clicking soothing mist is going to be a thing as well now to get the most chi out of it :/

[Aure]

A normal day in blizzards hq

Hey monks are doing jabjab uplift in order to heal 70% of what a priest or pally does
-Omg this is outrageous, lets nerf it. Increase the mana cost. Increase it again. HAHAHA Jab is now ridiculously expensive. Lets increase it again, just for the sake of it HAHA!
LOL jab is so expensive that even Surging mists costs less mana now. Doesnt make any sense haha
- No worries, we just increase surging mists mana cost in the next build even more.



The day before they discussed the new lvl30 talents and how chi wave takes so long to bounce between targets that the boss actually enrages before it heals

[kippi]

A normal day in blizzards hq

Hey monks are doing jabjab uplift in order to heal 70% of what a priest or pally does
-Omg this is outrageous, lets nerf it. Increase the mana cost. Increase it again. HAHAHA Jab is now ridiculously expensive. Lets increase it again, just for the sake of it HAHA!
LOL jab is so expensive that even Surging mists costs less mana now. Doesnt make any sense haha
- No worries, we just increase surging mists mana cost in the next build even more.



The day before they discussed the new lvl30 talents and how chi wave takes so long to bounce between targets that the boss actually enrages before it heals

What in the history of blizz balancing made you think they'd succeed with fistweaving?

As with all things fun in wow, it will be broken soon.

[Deleted]

This build is a Release Candidate

Well, let's hope some changes after the release

Because we're going to be useless without tier 15, and just meh even with tier 15

[Deleted]

Tier 15 is a 15% boost to ReM healing, tops a ~5% increase.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

This is what I got on the day of the Soothing Mists change:

Out of about 1000 full casts of Soothing Mists, with 9 ticks per Soothing Mists I got the following:

1 chi: 1%
2 chi: 23%
3 chi: 42%
4 chi: 25%
5 chi: 9%

So the chi proc rate is roughly 35%, however it is considerably rare to only get 1 chi, but you cannot get more than 5 chi.

During tonight's testing on the Twin Consorts I observed a couple times that a full channel of soothing mists only generated 1 chi, which is pretty frustrating when you want to generate chi before Cosmic Barrage hits without spending 48k (if you could even find a safe spot in melee as a mw) mana through jab. So generating only 1 chi still happens, but rarely.

Wow, did you really go and cast Soothing for over 2 hours just to get a big sample? well thats nice of you, thanks :-)
anyway, just as for sake of comparison i'll list how the chances are currently, with a pure statistical 30% proccchance per tick (out of 9 ticks):

0 chi: 4%
1 chi: 16%
2 chi: 26%
3 chi: 26%
4 chi: 17%
5 chi: 7%
6 chi: 2%
more chi: 2%

if your sample is somewhat correct, it is defenetly an improvement, with a much higher chance to get the expected value (than with a pure statistical 35%)
wonder how exactly they implemented that.
In your example you get 2-4 chi 90% of the time, that's good enough I guess. (with just a buff to 35% chance to procc, we would get 2-4 chi in only 70% of the cases)

[Gorsameth]

Im still unconvinced on SM. THe vague wording + the lack of any datamine changes means they could have changed something but an equal chance for it to be the same still.

[Dreyo]

Im still unconvinced on SM. THe vague wording + the lack of any datamine changes means they could have changed something but an equal chance for it to be the same still.

Actually, Chimerian's data makes it exceedingly unlikely that it hasn't been changed. Like, vanishingly small chance.

[Deleted]

It's not good enough, a channel of Soothing Mist is 6 seconds long in full haste gear...

[Dreyo]

It's not good enough, a channel of Soothing Mist is 6 seconds long in full haste gear...

And if you want more chi faster you have to spend more mana. Isn't this a good thing?

[Deleted]

Soothing mist still sucks balls, but of course we all knew they weren't gonna give us any compensation for the nerfs.

[Astraios]

Despite the nerfs, at least on twin consorts and Lei Shen, I'm under the impression that MW are absurdly overpowered. Our TFT lines up exactly with thunderstruck on Lei Shen, and 2pc t15 makes ReM godlike. I was crushing the other healers by around 30-45k on average on both of those fights, which are the only fights I've had a chance to test with the new changes. ReM is now significantly more powerful than uplift (even on burst fights like lei shen, which is absurd), and Chi Torpedo hasn't been touched, so on fights where that's usable the percent of throughput lost is smaller. Ultimately, our ability to heal while moving with uplift/tft/chi brew seems to be giving us the ability to shit on other healers, even w/o jab being a reasonable mana cost. To give an idea, I was doing 120k~ on average on twin consorts, and 90-100k on Lei Shen. Both of these fights my mana never went down. There is basically nothing to spam or use thats worth casting as far as I'm concerned. Hit ReM/Chi Torpedo/EH on CD, line TFT up with boss mechanics, outheal every other healer with ReM averaging 90k raw HPS (Before overhealing of course). Some of the most braindead play I've encountered, face roll for around 80% of the fight so long as you hit the previous CD's at the right time and you can do whatever you want (and they're so cheap/built into our mana costs that you'll have PLENTY of free mana left to cast whatever makes you feel like you're actually playing a real class. But whatever you cast won't make up but, say, 15-20% of your total healing, assumng you include uplift from ReM/EH CD's in the above healing.)

I lack the ability to put how I feel about the class into proper words, but without the ability to generate chi reliably and quickly, I feel like there's little player input required anymore. It just doesn't even make a difference. ReM takes rsham healing rain to a whole new level of (effective) passive healing. I'm not even reforged properly into haste for the next tick etc, and it's blowing everything out of the water, it's as silly as the 24k mana cost on jab.

[Ryve]

This is an interesting question that reveals a lot of misconceptions people have about Spirit.

Here's a secret: Spirit accounts for very little of your actual mana regeneration, such that doubling your Spirit number gives you no where near double your mana regeneration.

I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head (and they're not terribly easy to find either, due to wowpedia being grossly out of date), but the mana regeneration formula includes 2% of your base mana every 5 seconds PLUS around 0.638 mp5 per Spirit (that's the number I'm fuzzy on). If you math it out, the passive regeneration is already worth 9k or 10k Spirit. On top of that, Monks especially get a ridiculous amount of mana back from Mana Tea which is also in the neighborhood of ten thousand Spirit.

When you go from 10k Spirit to 12k, you might think that you've increased your total mana available in a given fight by 20%, but it's closer to 7%. The increase in stats from 509 to 541 is only a 35% increase in stats, which would account for, being generous, a 20% increase in available mana between Crit and Spirit. If we switch from Jab chi generation to SCK, that's a 138% increase in mana spent.

No, we're not just going to "out gear" this nerf, nor are we going to just be able to "stack Spirit" to make it okay again. chi gen/chi gen/Uplift is dead unless you want to spend a ridiculous amount of mana, or one of those is Expel Harm or Renewing Mist. You cannot use it more than a couple times before finding yourself OOM.

And what of the increased int, crit and haste, spellpower that you're gaining in the process? Traditionally health pools only marginally increase relative to all other stats.... It is true that they will tune heroic encounters so that you're often casting those spells fast enough that a lot of what you're gaining merely becomes overheal on progression, however once again that's only the first few weeks before your ilvl is brought up. And being able to plan your heals around minimizing overheals when it maximizes mana efficiency has always been the job of a good healer. Then again, most would rather not brag about succeeding on the hardest class when they can instead just down the bosses faster stacking the most powerful classes.

[iDrunkenheal]

Despite the nerfs, at least on twin consorts and Lei Shen, I'm under the impression that MW are absurdly overpowered. Our TFT lines up exactly with thunderstruck on Lei Shen, and 2pc t15 makes ReM godlike. I was crushing the other healers by around 30-45k on average on both of those fights, which are the only fights I've had a chance to test with the new changes. ReM is now significantly more powerful than uplift (even on burst fights like lei shen, which is absurd), and Chi Torpedo hasn't been touched, so on fights where that's usable the percent of throughput lost is smaller. Ultimately, our ability to heal while moving with uplift/tft/chi brew seems to be giving us the ability to shit on other healers, even w/o jab being a reasonable mana cost. To give an idea, I was doing 120k~ on average on twin consorts, and 90-100k on Lei Shen. Both of these fights my mana never went down. There is basically nothing to spam or use thats worth casting as far as I'm concerned. Hit ReM/Chi Torpedo/EH on CD, line TFT up with boss mechanics, outheal every other healer with ReM averaging 90k raw HPS (Before overhealing of course). Some of the most braindead play I've encountered, face roll for around 80% of the fight so long as you hit the previous CD's at the right time and you can do whatever you want (and they're so cheap/built into our mana costs that you'll have PLENTY of free mana left to cast whatever makes you feel like you're actually playing a real class. But whatever you cast won't make up but, say, 15-20% of your total healing, assumng you include uplift from ReM/EH CD's in the above healing.)

I lack the ability to put how I feel about the class into proper words, but without the ability to generate chi reliably and quickly, I feel like there's little player input required anymore. It just doesn't even make a difference. ReM takes rsham healing rain to a whole new level of (effective) passive healing. I'm not even reforged properly into haste for the next tick etc, and it's blowing everything out of the water, it's as silly as the 24k mana cost on jab.

Cause that won't get nerfed in a heartbeat. Then what?

[Deleted]

And if you want more chi faster you have to spend more mana. Isn't this a good thing?

It's not a question of us needing chi faster as if it was some sort of blanket increase, it's a question of having to blast through 40-60k mana to stabilize your tank.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 05:37 PM ----------

Despite the nerfs, at least on twin consorts and Lei Shen, I'm under the impression that MW are absurdly overpowered. Our TFT lines up exactly with thunderstruck on Lei Shen, and 2pc t15 makes ReM godlike. I was crushing the other healers by around 30-45k on average on both of those fights, which are the only fights I've had a chance to test with the new changes. ReM is now significantly more powerful than uplift (even on burst fights like lei shen, which is absurd), and Chi Torpedo hasn't been touched, so on fights where that's usable the percent of throughput lost is smaller. Ultimately, our ability to heal while moving with uplift/tft/chi brew seems to be giving us the ability to shit on other healers, even w/o jab being a reasonable mana cost. To give an idea, I was doing 120k~ on average on twin consorts, and 90-100k on Lei Shen. Both of these fights my mana never went down. There is basically nothing to spam or use thats worth casting as far as I'm concerned. Hit ReM/Chi Torpedo/EH on CD, line TFT up with boss mechanics, outheal every other healer with ReM averaging 90k raw HPS (Before overhealing of course). Some of the most braindead play I've encountered, face roll for around 80% of the fight so long as you hit the previous CD's at the right time and you can do whatever you want (and they're so cheap/built into our mana costs that you'll have PLENTY of free mana left to cast whatever makes you feel like you're actually playing a real class. But whatever you cast won't make up but, say, 15-20% of your total healing, assumng you include uplift from ReM/EH CD's in the above healing.)

I lack the ability to put how I feel about the class into proper words, but without the ability to generate chi reliably and quickly, I feel like there's little player input required anymore. It just doesn't even make a difference. ReM takes rsham healing rain to a whole new level of (effective) passive healing. I'm not even reforged properly into haste for the next tick etc, and it's blowing everything out of the water, it's as silly as the 24k mana cost on jab.

Would be very interested in seeing logs if there are any, not questioning you I'm just curious.

[DirewolfX]

Apparently the new formula is 15% + 15% per tick, resetting when we get chi.

[Courierrawr]

Apparently the new formula is 15% + 15% per tick, resetting when we get chi.

It should be 40% and then 20% more proc chance for every tick you don't get chi.

Maybe 10% instead of 20%, I dunno, the proc rate needs to be higher than 15% + 15% for every tick you don't get chi..

[Deleted]

15% + 15% per tick,

Finally sounds more like a nerf...

25% + 25% per tick is the minimum they had to do

33% +33% per tick was the good think to do

15%+15%/tick is like = you have 100% chance to have 1 chi every 6 tick ? a full channeling ? that's really not enought AT ALL