The Serpent’s Accord: A Mistweaver PvE Guide [5.4]

[Elovan]

Just wanna drop this here

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...s-february-25/

Soothing Mists now generates chi more consistently and average generation rate is slightly higher.

[Jayra]

Just wanna drop this here

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...s-february-25/

Soothing Mists now generates chi more consistently and average generation rate is slightly higher.

While still providing no numbers whatsoever as exactly what that means. Guaranteed chi? higher % chance to gain one per tick? Its still this vague statement that we can't take seriously until they actually communicate as to exactly how they've changed it

[Chuupag]

Alright so I've been sort of sticking my fingers in my ears about the mistweaver changes b/c they were changing so often. Been reading up more now that the patch is getting closer. I raid 10 mans and the heal comp is me, disc priest, and resto sham that swings elemental for 2 heal fights. Sort of a melee heavy group with enhance sham, ret pally, fury warrior. Is chi burst the way to go with this comp? I've had chi wave but rarely use it b/c I'd rather uplift 99% of the time.

[Deleted]

Is chi burst the way to go with this comp? I've had chi wave but rarely use it b/c I'd rather uplift 99% of the time.

Is this question still related to current content? Because in 5.2, due to the cooldown on Burst and all the T30 talents not needing Chi anymore, there is no proper answer on what to use as it is highly situational and overall a lackluster.
From a 10man perspective, I never found Chi Burst in current content majorly useful, even with Melee heavy groups. You can reliably ReM blanket the raid, thus Uplift always being a strong choice anyway, and this will not change in 5.2. The only thing that will change is your reliability to use Uplift as often as you can at the moment, due to mana costs on guaranteed Chi builders / the still random generation on Soothing Mist.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

While still providing no numbers whatsoever as exactly what that means. Guaranteed chi? higher % chance to gain one per tick? Its still this vague statement that we can't take seriously until they actually communicate as to exactly how they've changed it

have a look at the "Jab nerfed again :-D" thread, post #546, Chimerian went ahead and channeled ~1000 Soothing Mists and gave us the results, that should give you a good enough sample to make a picture

[Deleted]

have a look at the "Jab nerfed again :-D" thread, post #546, Chimerian went ahead and channeled ~1000 Soothing Mists and gave us the results, that should give you a good enough sample to make a picture

You don't understand; there are two methods they could have gone about;

a) They increased the proc chance, it's still random so it's a useless change.

b) They added a proc system similar to Nightfall for warlocks, which guarantees procs and averages out to the given proc chance but it's not as random because you're always guaranteed procs. The problem with this solution is it results in droughts of Chi because SM is our filler and not something we're going to use sparingly. Chi is also finite and dictated by Blizzard in this fix.

Both solutions are shit and don't solve the main problem .

[Chuupag]

Is this question still related to current content? Because in 5.2, due to the cooldown on Burst and all the T30 talents not needing Chi anymore, there is no proper answer on what to use as it is highly situational and overall a lackluster.
From a 10man perspective, I never found Chi Burst in current content majorly useful, even with Melee heavy groups. You can reliably ReM blanket the raid, thus Uplift always being a strong choice anyway, and this will not change in 5.2. The only thing that will change is your reliability to use Uplift as often as you can at the moment, due to mana costs on guaranteed Chi builders / the still random generation on Soothing Mist.

Since I mentioned the upcoming patch I'm talking about 5.2. You're not really answering my question. Since the level 30 talents are basically becoming a free heal to be used on cd I was trying to see if here was a general consensus on which was going to be better, and I mentioned my melee heavy raid group in case that made a difference.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

You don't understand

oh really, don't I. it's not as if I did some calculations myself a few posts further down, and I didn't conclude that they must have changed something else than only upping the proccchance... oh wait I did do that.
they did change the proccchance so that you get chi more regularly (and slightly more often, about 35%) how exactly they did that, they will probably not tell us, implementation details.

[Astraios]

During raid testing I had 2 full 7.2s (haste reduced) soothing mists with zero chi generated. What you're experiencing is a placebo effect of thinking it's better.

It's not.

It's still horrible.

[Deleted]

During raid testing I had 2 full 7.2s (haste reduced) soothing mists with zero chi generated. What you're experiencing is a placebo effect of thinking it's better.

It's not.

It's still horrible.

While I definitely see where youre coming from, and by your results here it seems more and more likely that a Nightfall-esque fix hasnt been in place, I do think that the rng on a personal level cannot show this change well. You may just have had bad rng, it may still be possible to gen 0 chi IF they have implemented a new formula. On the other hand, the sample size of the current pro-formula players just isnt large enough (not by anyones fault) as it cannot be simcrafted without a formula.

I'm saying, yes, it is quite likely that there is no change since there is no formula or % released. However there is a chance that your testing is just as inconclusive. Not conclusive enough to say it definitely is or definitely isn't a placebo. There is no way we can know for sure because of the rng factor involved in EVERY test (until they release a 'sim-able' formula.)

[Deleted]

basically becoming a free heal to be used on cd

Yeah but that's the key to the problem as well. A free heal is nice, but no point to use it unless there is actually some damage to be healed with it. As long as the builds are still being messed with (release candidate now, but one could still hope, eh), there are no final numbers. Some have been posted on this forum already, but all the T30 heals are at best situational and there is no straight "take this now, it's always and in every situation the best to do".
So let's sum it up: Chi Wave in 5.2 seems to be even worse healing than it currently is, on a longer cooldown. Chi Burst does a decent amount of healing, on a 30 second cooldown. Zen Sphere, from the latest Maths I read, actually is the highest HPS of the three talents, granted it hits enough players.
Personally, I would rank (ZS here, but I definitely need to work on how to utilize it best, so it actually has its highest potential Heal) > Burst (as an "oh shit I don't have Chi to uplift and need to get out a quick heal on that melee group" button/short cooldown) > Wave (for those fights where actually nobody but the Tank would take damage, but there haven't really been many of those lately, have there).

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

During raid testing I had 2 full 7.2s (haste reduced) soothing mists with zero chi generated. What you're experiencing is a placebo effect of thinking it's better.

It's not.

It's still horrible.

I'havent got any personal evidence, but assuming that Chimerian can count, and he really did do about 1000 soothing mists channels, it's nearly impossible that they didn't change anything.
They said they made it more reliable, not absolutley regular. that implies it's still a chance, and not something like a Chi every 3rd tick. so it seems it's still possible to get 0 Chi. sucks, but not much we can do about it.
but buffing the chance to 35% and makeing it more reliable is defenetly a step in the right direction IMO

[Mithfin]

While I definitely see where youre coming from, and by your results here it seems more and more likely that a Nightfall-esque fix hasnt been in place, I do think that the rng on a personal level cannot show this change well. You may just have had bad rng, it may still be possible to gen 0 chi IF they have implemented a new formula. On the other hand, the sample size of the current pro-formula players just isnt large enough (not by anyones fault) as it cannot be simcrafted without a formula.

now tell me who in their right mind would go 2-healing progress fight with a mistweaver under the mentioned circumstances? No one wants to experience "ok, that was amazing try, but our monk had bad luck and we died to that nasty AoE, let's try 10 more times" moment. RNG healer is really, really, really bad design.

[Deleted]

oh really, don't I. it's not as if I did some calculations myself a few posts further down, and I didn't conclude that they must have changed something else than only upping the proccchance... oh wait I did do that.
they did change the proccchance so that you get chi more regularly (and slightly more often, about 35%) how exactly they did that, they will probably not tell us, implementation details.

We have no proof that they have and all evidence points to the contrary.

[Chuupag]

Ok next question. Does the 2 targets 10 sec cd of Zen Sphere act like roll where you can have up to 2 charges but only 1 regens every 10 seconds or is it just 10 sec cd but you can have 2 active at any one time? And can you place it on someone less than 35% health and it will immediately detonate or does it have to be in place prior to that?

[Deleted]

- We'd rather you try out Soothing Mist in a combat situation rather than try to predict how it will feel, but the chi proc chance is 15% plus 15% for each tick that it doesn't proc. The chance to generate chi increases with each tick that doesn't proc and resets when it does.

Interesting... could be doing without the whole "test it out in a combat situation" thing though, it's not like we've been stuck with it's shitty functionality for 2 patch cycles now....

[Dreyo]

Interesting... could be doing without the whole "test it out in a combat situation" thing though, it's not like we've been stuck with it's shitty functionality for 2 patch cycles now....

What do you think the PTR is for?

Also, it'd be nice to have a retraction of the "Stop saying this" comments.

[Deleted]

What do you think the PTR is for?

Also, it'd be nice to have a retraction of the "Stop saying this" comments.

Well according to these numbers it should be impossible for me to get 0 chi in a channel which is still the case to my understanding, unless of course the figures are multiplicative but in that case it would be a heavy nerf to SM.

[Dreyo]

Well according to these numbers it should be impossible for me to get 0 chi in a channel which is still the case to my understanding, unless of course the figures are multiplicative but in that case it would be a heavy nerf to SM.

And the guy who did a thousand casts of soothing mist never got 0 chi on a channel. You dismissed the report of that data, when told to go look at it.

[Deleted]

now tell me who in their right mind would go 2-healing progress fight with a mistweaver under the mentioned circumstances? No one wants to experience "ok, that was amazing try, but our monk had bad luck and we died to that nasty AoE, let's try 10 more times" moment. RNG healer is really, really, really bad design.

I'm just saying that the rng factor involved makes testing whether the formula has changed very hard. You've got the wrong end of the stick here I think. Especially when on live, the 'unchanged' Soothing, does okay. It's not like there is going to be any LESS chance to gain chi.
I played shadow priest during cata and opening with shadow could be an RNG hell and they eventually worked around it. RNG has been manageable for MWs this patch and it will get no worse next patch. The problem is that there is less chi generated elsewhere. If your statement is true then it should applied to the patch now, in which MWs were being taken in progressive raids.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 06:50 PM ----------

And the guy who did a thousand casts of soothing mist never got 0 chi on a channel. You dismissed the report of that data, when told to go look at it.

Hence why I have stated earlier that I dont think any one personal test is enough to decide if there IS a formula change until we are given that formula by Blizzard. RNG is still RNG.