Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Deleted]

Also, is anyone else extremely disappointed at our set bonuses?

Every other class (with the possible exception of Paladins) get some cool set bonuses, both 2 set and 4 set. Conversely our 2 set seems extremely mediocre, and our 4 set bonus just seems pathetic. Seems like they got mixed up with the 2 set and 4 set bonuses as well.. usually flat damage increases are 2 set and the usage/uptime/proc changes are for the 4 set, both of which seem very underwhelming to me.

e.g. For Affliction, MG and DS deal 5% more periodic damage? ...MG hits like a wet noodle on it's own, and DS isnt exactly high up on the numbers either. It would be a lot better if they caused the DoTs to deal 5% extra periodic damage as well when they ticked.

The only spec I can see the set bonuses actually being worthwhile for is Demo.. 30% less fury consumed during DS and then 10% more fury gained from spells seems a LOT more appealing than the rubbish Affli and Destro get.

[Jessicka]

Also, is anyone else extremely disappointed at our set bonuses?

Every other class (with the possible exception of Paladins) get some cool set bonuses, both 2 set and 4 set. Conversely our 2 set seems extremely mediocre, and our 4 set bonus just seems pathetic. Seems like they got mixed up with the 2 set and 4 set bonuses as well.. usually flat damage increases are 2 set and the usage/uptime/proc changes are for the 4 set, both of which seem very underwhelming to me.

e.g. For Affliction, MG and DS deal 5% more periodic damage? ...MG hits like a wet noodle on it's own, and DS isnt exactly high up on the numbers either. It would be a lot better if they caused the DoTs to deal 5% extra periodic damage as well when they ticked.

The only spec I can see the set bonuses actually being worthwhile for is Demo.. 30% less fury consumed during DS and then 10% more fury gained from spells seems a LOT more appealing than the rubbish Affli and Destro get.

If you have amazing set bonuses, it's a surefire sign your class will suck terribly until you get them. Having lame ones is a good thing.

[Deleted]

Sacrifice is hardly the issue I have with the class, the issue is that the 4th and 6th talent rows feel like entire rows of crap.

Seems you havent seen bad design and crap, useless talents. Try playing a shadow priest in this expansion.

[Deleted]

e.g. For Affliction, MG and DS deal 5% more periodic damage? ...MG hits like a wet noodle on it's own, and DS isnt exactly high up on the numbers either. It would be a lot better if they caused the DoTs to deal 5% extra periodic damage as well when they ticked.

Ehm, didnt a blue confirm that's the case? (dots from mg/ds would also increase with 5%)?

[Screwtape]

You make my head hurt, please tell me how affliction is disadvantaged?

How long have you played warlock?

[Kaizers]

Ehm, didnt a blue confirm that's the case? (dots from mg/ds would also increase with 5%)?

Yep, aff 4 set is actually decent.

[xskarma]

How long have you played warlock?

Let's not start waving e-peens about who's played how long and what that says about their knowledge or lack there of, just answer the simple question, cause I'm curious too. You said, and I quote:

Of course I also think that affliction should always be #1- even maybe among all specs in general- because of its propensity to be disadvantaged by fight mechanics for whole tiers.

So what is this disadvantage that Affliction has that Demo/Destro don't have?

[Phoenexis]

Just wanted to say a small thing amidst all of the theory crafting:
The new talent system was never going to actually give any choice whatsoever. If anything, it has increased the amount of cookie-cutter builds and the use of them with the possiblity to reset them prior to any encounter. As it is right now, you have the option to swap talents before every raid encounter, and every arena match. I you want to play optimally, then you're going to take the talents best fit for the situation, so no real choice, just more options to be forced to choose from. During Cataclysm, you'd make your build up, which as a Destro lock I found to have lots of choices, and then stick with it, at least in arena.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 12:56 AM ----------

So what is this disadvantage that Affliction has that Demo/Destro don't have?

No green fire, duh!

[Netherspark]

I'm a little unnerved by Ghostcrawler's tweet on Sacrifice. This was in response to someone suggesting GoSac should equal pet damage:

Or even a DPS loss since it's a convenience plus.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...47553145614339

So it seems I was right about what I posted earlier; they want to make Sacrifice unviable for serious raids/PVP in all but the most niche encounters. I'd rather they just remove it to be honest, and I expect they will next expansion.

Lets be honest here, Sacrifice is just a bad idea and there's no way to balance it properly.

[Deleted]

Ehm, didnt a blue confirm that's the case? (dots from mg/ds would also increase with 5%)?

Oh ok, fair enough. Missed that post, I retract my previous statement of the 4 set being garbage!

So, Sac nerf puts the mg extra dot ticks at 67.5% of normal periodic damage -> +5% from 4 set = 72.5%, which is only 2.5% less than live.

With DS during execute, pre 4set = 135% extra dmg from dot ticks; with 4set = 140% extra dmg, so 10% less than live.

When you factor in the extra 5% that haunt will give, it really doesnt seem that bad on the nerf scale :X It could be a lot worse!

[Tramzh]

If the goal with GoSac is to not be used, then just remove it already please. Not that I don't like it, but there's just no point in having it in the game going by that design logic.

[Grizelda]

I just thought that the idea was to give us choices in the way we play. If it's nerfed so heavily it's not a choice.

[xskarma]

When you factor in the extra 5% that haunt will give, it really doesnt seem that bad on nerf scale :X It could be a lot worse!

The Haunt thing is pretty smart cause it rewards smart play with buffed dots and more importantly doesn't increase our multi dotting prowess too much, which Blizz seems to always be concerned about. They could have buffed MG, but that would mean they'd have to increase DS too or else that'd get out of whack. So this was a smart, low effort buff they made. It's also pretty convenient that we are limited in the use by our shards, so there's a limiter on the use we get out of this buff.

[Apero]

When you factor in the extra 5% that haunt will give, it really doesnt seem that bad on nerf scale :X It could be a lot worse!

Now take the 4pc t14 loss into account and it does seem bad. 4pc t14 is pretty big for affli.

[Deleted]

The Haunt thing is pretty smart cause it rewards smart play with buffed dots and more importantly doesn't increase our multi dotting prowess too much, which Blizz seems to always be concerned about. They could have buffed MG, but that would mean they'd have to increase DS too or else that'd get out of whack. So this was a smart, low effort buff they made. It's also pretty convenient that we are limited in the use by our shards, so there's a limiter on the use we get out of this buff.

But in addition this will make us more dependable on nightfall procs and even stronger during execute phase.

[Zinnin]

But in addition this will make us more dependable on nightfall procs and even stronger during execute phase.

It also increases Affliction's strength on fights where you can get 'unlimted' shards, making it pull even 'further' ahead of the other specs. I already don't like the disparity between specs on fights where there are adds that can grant resources, in general it makes demo mechanically weak in comparison.

[Deleted]

Now take the 4pc t14 loss into account and it does seem bad. 4pc t14 is pretty big for affli.

Whilst a nerf for sure, I wouldnt say it seems "bad". Less good than current, aye, but bad? Nah, not just yet! :P If anything I'm glad they havent nerfed it any more, which let's be honest they could have easily done owing to our current co-dominance of the meters.

[Screwtape]

Let's not start waving e-peens about who's played how long and what that says about their knowledge or lack there of, just answer the simple question, cause I'm curious too. You said, and I quote:



So what is this disadvantage that Affliction has that Demo/Destro don't have?

I wasn't epeening; isn't this an issue every single expansion? I didn't play Cata but I've heard a lot of bitching about it; was it all about the pets? I don't remember Ulduar as a great tier for affliction, and that was coming off nearly a clean sweep of high parses on Naxx bosses. XT adds for one. And need I bring up Anub'arak? Anything that requires short term burst, lots of short lived targets, burst aoe.

Who knows what the future tiers will be like, but affliction is slightly different than "there's a target, shoot at it".

[xskarma]

But in addition this will make us more dependable on nightfall procs and even stronger during execute phase.

Well the nightfall procs thing is exactly what Blizz is counting on to limit the effect of the buff, and I don't feel a stronger execute is much of a problem tbh. I always liked that about Affliction. Just remember there'll be fights like Horridon with loads of adds that we can DS for more shards that will be like christmas

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 02:35 AM ----------

Anything that requires short term burst, lots of short lived targets, burst aoe.

We got loads better in those departments, but Demo is better at most of those, yes. Doesn't mean Affli should be at an advantage all the time. Affliction has multi dotting as it's niche, and a strong execute. Specs have different strenghts and weaknesses, and every fight highlights different areas, making different specs shine. Saying Affliction needs to be no. 1 at all times cause it's not perfect in one area that sometimes comes up is kinda nonsense.

[nightfalls]

I wasn't epeening; isn't this an issue every single expansion? I didn't play Cata but I've heard a lot of bitching about it; was it all about the pets? I don't remember Ulduar as a great tier for affliction, and that was coming off nearly a clean sweep of high parses on Naxx bosses. XT adds for one. And need I bring up Anub'arak? Anything that requires short term burst, lots of short lived targets, burst aoe.

Why don't you look up his armory that's in his signature? I know I was looking at his logs from Refined(?) and I think he was perhaps featured in some other guilds I personally was looking at joining in Cata.

Once you become quite involved with a class you realize there's several names that will jump out constantly when looking at others' logs, from there you can kind of figure out some "big names."

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 01:42 AM ----------

Seems you havent seen bad design and crap, useless talents. Try playing a shadow priest in this expansion.

I'll give priests don't have the best talent setup either. Like I said though, most specs do have junk in the trees, but warlocks seem to just be badly designed altogether. I'm actually leveling a priest as a main alt now as an alternative to moving my lock, but I probably won't play that much Shadow compared to Disc/Holy depending on what's needed in runs.

I'm also not saying that locks have the only bad T6 talents. Shaman have a pretty laughable T6 in my books also (also another laughable tier if I remember).