40 Man raids

[kaption]

This is possibly a stupid question But, 40 man raids what happened to them? Besides the obviouse (Computers not being able to handle them, A decline due to the ammount of time to get people, Different raiding encounters having 3 tiers (10, 25, 40)

Is there a way they could have made it work? And would you (If you had the time and the computer to run it) actually be in a 40 man raiding guild? (I know I would becuase killing a boss with 40 people is much more epic than 10)

[Sillicis]

Blizzard removed them.
I do Sha of Fear with 40 man, it doesnt feel as epic as killing a heroic boss with just 10 man.

[Lushious]

Of course Blizzard could make them work, but the "problem" lies in the community.

[Synros]

It was to much work, and dropped it, like they do with everything else that is to much work. IE; new dancing, Path of the Titans, Fixing SW and Org at the beginning of MoP, etc.

[kaption]

Of course Blizzard could make them work, but the "problem" lies in the community.

I think you are right there, except I would have said "Community" instead.

It was to much work, and dropped it, like they do everything else that is hard. IE; new dancing, Path of the Titans, Fixing SW and Org at the beginning of MoP, etc.

I'm not too sure it was "too hard" as much as the reception they got wasn't as positive as they would have liked or perhaps to release the things that the community feels is better (pvp changes/raids) they didn't have time.

[Enosh]

It was to much work, and dropped it, like they do everything else that is hard. IE; new dancing, Path of the Titans, Fixing SW and Org at the beginning of MoP, etc.

I fail to see how supporting a 40 man raid is any different from doing a 10 or 25 one
it's just tweaking the numbers a bit...

they didn't drop it because it is hard, they dropped it because it was a design decision to move away from large 40 man raids and implement smaller ones where individual contributions mattered more and more responsibility was given to each person in the raid

[dlouhys]

I miss raiding with the people I did 40 mans with. I do not miss the loot drama, no shows, 15 deep wounds knocking off dots.....etc

The experience did feel more epic but I spent more time recruiting people that wouldn't cost us members, settling disputes, talking it over with officers if we were better off running with 30-35 instead of filling out the raid and so forth. After a while it really took the fun out of the game and I felt like this was my 3rd job.

[Mersynd]

40 mans quickly died because their loot system and NPC damage/hp could be not be fair or equal compared to 10 and 25. People in hardcore 25 man guilds are already funneling gear into specific players and 40 mans would need to have a lot of items drop which could be put onto specific players and make 10 man raiding easier. 10 mans also became a more serious concept and if 10, 25 and 40 mans existed, either 10 mans would be too easy or 40 mans would be too hard in terms of how hard mobs hit and how much healing/dps you need to do. There are many reasons 40 mans can not and will not exist. Another simple one is the fact that graphics were improved and the average player's computer cannot handle it.

[Xegor]

I believe any good teamgame should be about the player, not just numbers nor the class. In 40 man it was primarily class-stacking and getting 40 people to be online at the same time.

In my 10man HC team, I feel valued and important. If I screw up/makes a save the outcome is directly affected. In 40man you could afk and sometimes it would barely make a difference. (Of course I am not talking about Naxx runs @ 60 here)

And just to add to the list of people, yes blizzard could make it happen, yes it would have an epic feel, yes it is the community that is hindering it.

[Synros]

I fail to see how supporting a 40 man raid is any different from doing a 10 or 25 one
it's just tweaking the numbers a bit...

they didn't drop it because it is hard, they dropped it because it was a design decision to move away from large 40 man raids and implement smaller ones where individual contributions mattered more and more responsibility was given to each person in the raid

idk, apparently its to much work making a fight for a lot of people. Thats apparently what was said in 2010 when someone asked at a Blizzcon, was to time consuming. Other then that, there is really no reason why they dropped 40 mans.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 06:36 PM ----------

I think you are right there, except I would have said "Community" instead.




I'm not too sure it was "too hard" as much as the reception they got wasn't as positive as they would have liked or perhaps to release the things that the community feels is better (pvp changes/raids) they didn't have time.

IMO, for Example: New dances were promised at the start of Wrath...I still fail to see them. Every week I see people asking for new dances, it should take 5 years to do that. The problem people have is all the empty promises, and the lack of addressing the feedback. They just label it as "too much work" or "time consuming" and move on. When I mean not addressing feedback, I'm excluding all the "Rogues need to be buffed to one shot everyone" and all those BS input. Its the little stuff that really matters in the end. Blizzard has pretty much like Obama. They say one thing, and do another. In the end, people don't like getting pushed around. Especially if they are paying and supported the people making the game.

I don't really care anymore though, I'm waiting to see what the next Xpac is before resubbing.

[Madruga]

Apart from the nightmare that would be putting the group together, handling gear, motivating the players, etc...

I think 40 man raids are quite epic. Something about putting a lot of people together to kill the dragon.

[Mormolyce]

The last 40m raid was in Vanilla. Blizzard scrapped them a long time ago because it's just too difficult to manage a roster that size.

The only way I could see 40m raiding working is if it was some kind of outdoor event or LFR type queue.

It was to much work, and dropped it, like they do with everything else that is to much work. IE; new dancing, Path of the Titans, Fixing SW and Org at the beginning of MoP, etc.

Boo hoo. Also:

1) Path of the Titans - it was going to be another pane of prime glyphs (but it was connected to Archaeology, either you learned the recipes or got the mats from that). So people would just theorycraft the best ones and you'd set and forget just like prime glyphs used to be. Blizzard came to their senses and scrapped it, good bloody riddance.

2) Fixing SW and Org - what does Org even need done? And so what if SW takes ages to rebuild, frankly it's unrealistic that it would even be repaired by the time of 5.2 let alone MoP release. (Hell I still think the rebuilding of SW in the interim between Warcraft II and WoW was unrealistically fast...)

3) Dancing - okay I agree with that. WHERE'S MA GODDAMN DANCE STUDIO!!???

[RyanEX]

Blizzard removed them.
I do Sha of Fear with 40 man, it doesnt feel as epic as killing a heroic boss with just 10 man.

It's because people just zone out and kill it. If say...they were given a debuff after dying like they did back in Vanilla and TBC, they'd be more careful and the fight'd seem more interesting.

[Brash]

The biggest thing people seem to forget when talking about 40 man raids is that it had many of the same problems that LFR has now, 15 raiders could afk and you could still down bosses, loot drama, and getting people to show up. (That last one was more for 40 mans than LFR). I know when we were working on MC and BWL we took a few 57-59's just to fill spots, this is before the aq patch btw. I don't understand how this is epic in anyway.

[Synros]

Boo hoo. Also:

1) Path of the Titans - it was going to be another pane of prime glyphs (but it was connected to Archaeology, either you learned the recipes or got the mats from that). So people would just theorycraft the best ones and you'd set and forget just like prime glyphs used to be. Blizzard came to their senses and scrapped it, good bloody riddance.

2) Fixing SW and Org - what does Org even need done? And so what if SW takes ages to rebuild, frankly it's unrealistic that it would even be repaired by the time of 5.2 let alone MoP release. (Hell I still think the rebuilding of SW in the interim between Warcraft II and WoW was unrealistically fast...)

3) Dancing - okay I agree with that. WHERE'S MA GODDAMN DANCE STUDIO!!???

-If done properly, PotT would have opened up a ton more customization for everyone. Making for more uniqueness. It was going to opening up different dailies, and lore depending on what Titan you choose to follow. In the end, it was going to take to much work, so they strapped it for something more primitive.
-Lorewise (from WoW to MoP) its been about 20 years, or just under. Discounting Anduin, considering hes been cannoned to fit the story. From start of Cata to now, its been at least 4 years in game. So why is DW claw marks still burning, and why are the cranes in Org still spinning around with the same piece of wood? I don't care if you don't care. Some people find it annoying when things don't add up. Going from Mists-Cata-TBC-Wrath-Cata-Mists in the storyline doesn't make much sense.

[PBitt]

*If* you could throw away the issues with computers being able to handle 40 man raids and there was a way you could magically make everyone show up and on time, then yes, 40 man raids could potentially be a lot of fun. But that's not how it works, hell there are tons of hardcore raiders that have crapbox PCs that wouldn't be able to handle it, and as for attendance....yeah...a 40 man raid might work for a top 20 world guild but most guilds simply wouldn't have the ability to maintain said attendance, and you'd have to have at least 50 people to ensure all spots were filled.

As I'm saying, they were a clusterfuck, very fitting for what the game was when it was new to be honest, but as a 25 man raid leader throughout Wrath, I would say 25 people is a good cap for raiding in a game like WoW. My guild made pretty good progress all things considered but being an officer in a 25 man guild was a nightmare, I can't imagine having to do so with 40. You can say whatever you want about it but it was a wise decision of them to remove 40 mans, IMHO.

[KCguy]

Getting 10 people together is hard enough as it is, I couldn't imagine getting 40 together. haha.

[Mormolyce]

-If done properly, PotT would have opened up a ton more customization for everyone. Making for more uniqueness. It was going to opening up different dailies, and lore depending on what Titan you choose to follow. In the end, it was going to take to much work, so they strapped it for something more primitive.

No offense, but that's rubbish. Here are some examples of what they were working on before it was scrapped:

Some examples for ancient glyphs available through the Path of Golganneth include:
Rank I
Earth's Embrace - Physical damage taken reduced by 4%.
Battle Hardened - Reduces the duration of Bleed and Stun effects by 20%.
Rank II
Medic - Bandages heal targets by an additional 30%.
Fortification - instant - 5 min cooldown - Nearby allies take 10% less damage for 6 sec.
Rank III
Breakthrough - instant - 5 min cooldown - Increases damage dealt by 10% for 10 sec. Only usable after you deal a critical strike.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Paths_of_the_Titans

As you can see they were going to be absolutely terrible and impossible to balance. Like prime glyphs but not even class specific.

-Lorewise (from WoW to MoP) its been about 20 years, or just under. Discounting Anduin, considering hes been cannoned to fit the story. From start of Cata to now, its been at least 4 years in game. So why is DW claw marks still burning, and why are the cranes in Org still spinning around with the same piece of wood? I don't care if you don't care. Some people find it annoying when things don't add up. Going from Mists-Cata-TBC-Wrath-Cata-Mists in the storyline doesn't make much sense.

Deathwing's claw marks did get their glow reduced in MoP I believe? How about, it's still glowing because of magic.

How many years were they repairing the bridge in Redridge Mountains before Cataclysm? Come on do you seriously expect them to go back and update old zones all over the world every year to make it chronologically correct? Just a stupid thing to complain about.

P.S. MoP happens ONE year after Cataclysm.

Q:
Will Cataclysm revamped stories be followed up on in Mists of Pandaria, such as the fate of Ashenvale, Feralas and its army, and many other points?

A:
No. The timeline of level 1-60 zones will stay in the time of Cataclysm. And when you enter the zones that require higher than 85, Deathwing is already dead in their time. The story of Mists of Pandaria will set roughly 1 year after Cataclysm.

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...ad.php?t=21125

[Oppressionix805]

It was to much work, and dropped it, like they do with everything else that is to much work. IE; new dancing, Path of the Titans, Fixing SW and Org at the beginning of MoP, etc.

i'm sad, Ironforge was the city everyone went to back in my days now everyone hangs in SW

[Deleted]

You forgot player housing, a feature that will be surely added to the game before the first expansion.

But back to topic, 40 man raids were an epic experience... they were screwed due to performance issues, I don't think they will ever come back.... sadly.