Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Sturmcantor]

I'm going to test an interaction with spell haste and SoB on Exo that someone posted about on EJ and then push a build with latest changes (baseline wings cd, new t14 4 set, increased SoL) sometime this week, probably towards Friday/Saturday. If it wasn't midterms week it's be sooner, sorry.

[Dmchomerun]

It's mentioned in multiple blue posts that they want people to be re-rolling from ret. I don't think they can make it more clear than that; Ret is going to be mediocre as it is this tier and has being in many many previous tiers until the population evens out. I think they want ret to be a point where he is not completely useless but bring some damage and utility that guilds "may" drag one per raid team. So all the benched / guileless rets will eventually have re-roll to see some action.

So what do people like me do who only have one character to play on. For the guild I raid with, I have a spot in the 10-man group I am in because of numbers (being on a low pop server doesn't help). I don't want to have to spend a ton of time, as in time I don't have being an engineering student, leveling another character that I won't give a damn about as much as a care about my Paladin. I think it really is a piss-poor excuse from Ghostcrawler considering he made the same remark about Hunters and then they are buffing the shit out of Hunters for 5.2. I just think that it isn't fair for the rest of the raid team I am in is all...

/mytwocents

Anyways, the buff to Sword of Light looks helpful, but I just don't think it is going to be close to getting the job done.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

This tier I've been doing a lot of "gimp" jobs on bosses, I went OS tank for Empress HC and Amber Shaper HC, I also went prot for Lei Shi and did the stack mechanic. I don't mind doing them but he always asks me to do them because I can do them without getting a panic attack and usually don't mess it up (too badly).
So last night I asked him about it and he dropped this on me: "You're a ret, we might aswell use you for something good."
Yes, gimped because ret is weak Atleast I cover my raid spot that way I guess..? :P

How are you keeping your raidspot in previous and future tiers? Taking special jobs or you hoping to get to a state where our dps (aoe or single target) isn't dragging the raid down?

[Defender]

I keep my spot because of me as a player and individual playing the class to its best. A good attitude. No other special job required. It is acknowledge of the disadvantages of a Ret, but it can be overlooked through the player, and pumping/striving out more than what the class is capable of.

Edit: I would like to add that the unknown drop source for Greatsword of Frozen Hells may be a trash drop as someone said it was "confirmed", but a guildie who has affiliation with some high end Blizzard Staff members mentioned they did not want another situation of farming trash for gear. It contradicts what Ghostcrawler said about there being normal trash drops, however. We shall see. She told someone and said they are going to look into it, but it may be too late with the patch on the horizon. Take with a grain of salt.

[Dmchomerun]

Edit: I would like to add that the unknown drop source for Greatsword of Frozen Hells may be a trash drop as someone said it was "confirmed", but a guildie who has affiliation with some high end Blizzard Staff members mentioned they did not want another situation of farming trash for gear. It contradicts what Ghostcrawler said about there being normal trash drops, however. We shall see. She told someone and said they are going to look into it, but it may be too late with the patch on the horizon. Take with a grain of salt.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is, if you don't want groups farming trash for loot, then put the items into the loot table of one of the bosses; or just don't put large amounts of trash in the raids in the first place. The reason why Icecrown was farmed so hard, other than the reputation grinding, was because there was such a large amount of trash you could kill without even having to get by one boss. Which is exactly what they come back and do with Heart of Fear, although the drop rate on the bracers is quite low.

I can't lie, I am concerned about the gear itemization for the next tier, but at the same time am interested to see how the trash loot table looks, whether it is just recipes/plans or they do add separate epic items also. At least for a player like me who really isn't planning on running heroics for a while into 5.2 (if not at all), these weapons dropping at all would be huge.

Also, possibly stupid question: Is the Best-in-slot list for normal mode essentially the same pieces as the heroic mode list? I feel like there could be some pieces, for example the blacksmithing gear that could be much better than anything from normal mode boss loot.

Link to Blacksmithing gear for those who haven't seen it already:
Boots
Helm

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I keep my spot because of me as a player and individual playing the class to its best. A good attitude. No other special job required. It is acknowledge of the disadvantages of a Ret, but it can be overlooked through the player, and pumping/striving out more than what the class is capable of.

My point was more in line of how are you gonna keep your raid spot if your raid needs higher dps specs, which is basicly any class. Well used to be, might be different with the 5% SoL buff + aoe buffs we're getting in the next PTR build

[Bombercloner]

My point was more in line of how are you gonna keep your raid spot if your raid needs higher dps specs, which is basicly any class. Well used to be, might be different with the 5% SoL buff + aoe buffs we're getting in the next PTR build

I see the SoL buff on the front page but I haven't seen anything about an AoE buff. Please enlighten me.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I see the SoL buff on the front page but I haven't seen anything about an AoE buff. Please enlighten me.

nothing has been said specific but GC said he was happy about where ret dps was in T14 compared to Frost DKs apart from the aoe / cleave side. Going to be changes if you go by that, but like I said, nothing has been changed so far and it might just be a DS buff + the 9% seal of cleave we got already.

[Bombercloner]

nothing has been said specific but GC said he was happy about where ret dps was in T14 compared to Frost DKs apart from the aoe / cleave side. Going to be changes if you go by that, but like I said, nothing has been changed so far and it might just be a DS buff + the 9% seal of cleave we got already.

Ahh ok. I read something earlier in the thread about someone having their fingers crossed that they make EXO glyph baseline, but still have it as a ranged attack. I would really like that. Also think I read somewhere, on this thread as a suggestion, about HotR spreading Censure, but that might be OP.

But one can dream right

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

the issue with our aoe abilities spreading Censure beyond the primary target is that it's gonna be absolutely OP for fights where the adds or multiple targets (like counsil of elders) live for a long time. Then there's PvP, if you're allowed to get up 5 stacks of Censure on 2 targets that means alot of preassure and no penalty for target switching. + Once up you have to be horseshit bad to let them fall off again so it's not gonna require any skill (not that multidotting in general use alot of "skill")

What they could do is add a dot on divine storm or simply increase tha direct damage it does, since it's late in PTR I'm guessing we'll see a +25% or more damage scaling on Divine Storm, maybe on Hammer of the Righteous aswell (or one of them)

[Andron]

the issue with our aoe abilities spreading Censure beyond the primary target is that it's gonna be absolutely OP for fights where the adds or multiple targets (like counsil of elders) live for a long time. Then there's PvP, if you're allowed to get up 5 stacks of Censure on 2 targets that means alot of preassure and no penalty for target switching. + Once up you have to be horseshit bad to let them fall off again so it's not gonna require any skill (not that multidotting in general use alot of "skill")

What they could do is add a dot on divine storm or simply increase tha direct damage it does, since it's late in PTR I'm guessing we'll see a +25% or more damage scaling on Divine Storm, maybe on Hammer of the Righteous aswell (or one of them)

Warlocks do it, (Fire)mages do it, DKs do it. Why not us? If needed, add a mechanic similar to Howling Blast to it, where the damage is reduced on secondary targets.
Or reduce Censure duration and let Exorcism spread it to nearby targets. Also: It's a DoT after all and not likely to hit overly hard in PvP, so not much pressure just from Censure alone.
There's a lot they could do with Censure, creativity is all it takes. That may however be the point.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Warlocks do it, (Fire)mages do it, DKs do it. Why not us? If needed, add a mechanic similar to Howling Blast to it, where the damage is reduced on secondary targets.
Or reduce Censure duration and let Exorcism spread it to nearby targets. Also: It's a DoT after all and not likely to hit overly hard in PvP, so not much pressure just from Censure alone.
There's a lot they could do with Censure, creativity is all it takes. That may however be the point.

number one, blizzard doesn't want ret to be top dps or even top half, never have never will.
number two, ret has never been a spec that relied on dots or multidotting, Censure spreading on up to 4-5 targets yes but not on 10+ targets.

Censure does roughly 40k damage over 15sec before raidbuffs and inquisition, roughly 65k damage over 15sec. That's 4.3k dps per target before the % SoL buff (if that affects it) Now you still want Censure on unlimited targets? Talk about OP and a reason to get hate and nerfs.

[Reith]

I think Censure is fine as is, which is why all these changes regarding it may not happen, the risk of making Censure worse prob too big.

Which is why buffing Divine Storm helps cleave and AOE at the same time. That's probably what they're going to do. I'm calling 120% weapon damage right now.

[Zabannith]

Reith Id be ok with this , hell we need something ,

Maybe instead of as ppl suggested DS applying censure to all targets affected (which is op as hell common ppl u gotta be able to see this) make DS apply censure to a limited amount say 5 targets or something , or even as unlikely as it is at this point make DS apply its own exclusive effect that stacks to 1 like monks rising sun kick making all the targets take extra dmg from all your attacks... except that would change our single target rotation to keep that debuff on the target...they would have to make the debuff affect only our aoe skills.

[Fredzilla]

Edit: I would like to add that the unknown drop source for Greatsword of Frozen Hells may be a trash drop as someone said it was "confirmed", but a guildie who has affiliation with some high end Blizzard Staff members mentioned they did not want another situation of farming trash for gear. It contradicts what Ghostcrawler said about there being normal trash drops, however. We shall see. She told someone and said they are going to look into it, but it may be too late with the patch on the horizon. Take with a grain of salt.

I wish they would have put in a damn 2h mace for us to use. Two tiers without one. They said they don't like racials, but they're just making it worse by screwing over pretty much everyone that's not a human or orc.

Don't worry though, they're putting in an INT 2h mace...

[Zabannith]

Don't worry though, they're putting in an INT 2h mace...

Further proof they want rets to go holy... heres a 2h mace for u that you were asking for .... oh wait... its meant for holy...dafuq?

[Ulmita]

Which is why buffing Divine Storm helps cleave and AOE at the same time. That's probably what they're going to do. I'm calling 120% weapon damage right now.

I hope they just buff censure. I like the idea of being strong single target nukers and weak on aoe. Buffing censure a bit will ensure that our aoe will increase by a tiny bit too.

Btw guys, if they make exo glyph baseline then there will be issues with breaking cc's. Not sure if its a good way to go around doing things.

They should had just buffed sol, the ap to sp ratio. that would had increased single and aoe damage.

[Sett]

Further proof they want rets to go holy... heres a 2h mace for u that you were asking for .... oh wait... its meant for holy...dafuq?

It's not BiS and it's mainly for a little change of pace. A lot of specs/classes are being gifted that 'one' item that they usually wouldn't use to have a different look and feel to it. The int fist weapon, this mace, and the str polearm are all examples of this.

[Reith]

I hope they just buff censure. I like the idea of being strong single target nukers and weak on aoe. Buffing censure a bit will ensure that our aoe will increase by a tiny bit too.

That's not gonna happen. They don't want ret to be OP in any way, period.

[Ulmita]

Yeah i know Reith, just putting out there some wishful thinking; "channeling that positive energy hopping to hit GC"