GC has no intention of fixing pets when it comes to mechanical buffs

[Durumu]

Check
the
2nd
Hide

So what? The hide mechanic is weird. As I've said before I've seen very wide damage spreads and time differences. So if you used snake trap on the first, second and third why are they that much different? You need consistency. That doesn't prove anything. Snakes don't do anything on that fight to get lei shi out of hide.

[Dracodraco]

Check
the
2nd
Hide

No
One
Cares.

Whether it works or not, enough is enough. The logs you have linked so far clearly shows no damage being done by the snakes - it is purely damage comming from AOE sources. Snakes cannot hit her when she is hidden, as it is melee. Untill you can show us a log where the hidden lei shi actually takes damage from the snakes, or otherwise explain why they "almost instantly break her out", we'll assume that it does not work.

[Durumu]

You have to find her first?


Firstoff: you =/ all. If you dont care, write nothing. But since you care, what you do since you answer, dont write such shit (couldnt find an other word).

Also, I just explained it two posts above???

Right how would finding her affect the damage spread/time spread in any way? If you were supposedly ready and using your snake trap for the first, second and third hide it would've behaved the same if it worked regardless of how fast you found her. You need more logs because that again, doesn't prove anything. Consistency is key here. Also he is probably right, just saying.


Your explanation also didn't prove anything.

[haaskilbas]

this is why i miss the days before dps meters. If no one saw the dps numbers they wouldnt bitch as much. Who cares if you are doing quite as much dps as long as the boss dies.

And sadly everyone is saying how bad it is that others are "attacking" op. Well the most attacks i see in these types of posts is attacks against blizzards design crew. "OMG my class doesnt perform absolutely perfectly on listed fights. Screw Blizzard...they suck."

People need to grow up and realize this is a GAME. nothing more nothing less. If you are having this big an issue with this then reroll or go to another game because all you are doing is making the game community worse.

[Durumu]

this is why i miss the days before dps meters. If no one saw the dps numbers they wouldnt bitch as much. Who cares if you are doing quite as much dps as long as the boss dies.

To quote one of my previous posts:

I say it does matter, because I don't want to gimp my raid just because I was doing shit dps and I'm like "oh, I'm getting carried, but it's ok since we're killing bosses!". That doesn't make any sense to me. It maters a lot. As long as your damage isn't padded you want to do the best for your raid.

Also no progression raider doesn't care about their damage.

[gulder]

this is why i miss the days before dps meters. If no one saw the dps numbers they wouldnt bitch as much. Who cares if you are doing quite as much dps as long as the boss dies.

You should try SWTOR sometime. I was really surprised that I actually missed the overall skill level of the Blizz playerbase there. No meters = no indication that you're messing up = freedom to do whatever you want.

I've replaced healers with companions on some bosses and gone from wiping incessantly to one-shotting the boss. Not like the AI is brilliant, it stood in most of the fire. It also pressed healing buttons.

[Nemesis003]

You should try SWTOR sometime. I was really surprised that I actually missed the overall skill level of the Blizz playerbase there. No meters = no indication that you're messing up = freedom to do whatever you want.

I've replaced healers with companions on some bosses and gone from wiping incessantly to one-shotting the boss. Not like the AI is brilliant, it stood in most of the fire. It also pressed healing buttons.

the draw back to no meters is people feel that is a reason to do nothing and get carried. Meters have a purpose.

[Durumu]

You absolutely need meters. That is why Blizzard implemented them.

[NomadKing]

Without getting into the topic of if snakes do or don't hit lei shi, I do see a lot of people saying that melee attacks / auto attacks can't hit her which simply isn't true. Go and stand next to the hide spot with your pet and you'll clearly see your pet auto attacking the hidden boss. I don't know if this works for normal melee, but it definately does for pets.

[Saoron]

I have posted a few times on the official forums as well. No notice yet. And sheesh the ignorance on this topic is astronomical. As hard it is for me to admit, i'm with nemesis on this. Hunters have been overlooked. I just hate the inconsistency of it all. I mean how hard is it to fix a simple issue like pets not getting certain buffs or certain pet summons not getting dmg reduction. Sad thing is, warlock imps (demo) used to be squishy as fuck as well.. But they got fixed. Nothing on Dire Beasts.

I would like to know what goes on in the devs' minds.. They hotfix the garalon buff and make it so hunter pets get the buff, but ignore the other fights. They probably just went 'man that was a lot of work.. I know they're still bugged in SG and WILL and Protectors.. but we're not gonna bother with those fights.. too much hassle.. let's just give them garalon so they'll shut up'.

[jonoy8]

wow you are just not able to grasp what is being said... No other class will be FORCED to be limited by a pet. Locks have the ability to sac their pet, Mages will be fire or arcane to not have a pet, DKs will simply go frost if the pet puts them at a disadvantage.

Can you still not understand this concept. THERE IS NO HUNTER SPEC THAT PETS YOU GET RID OF YOUR PET. If you don't understand that please just don't post as you are not cappable of providing anything to this thread.

I play a demo lock, you don't sac your pet


maybe BM won't be that good on the fight, it isn't worth the rage you are putting out compared to simply using your second spec for that fight.


it's funny you claim unholy dk's should just go to frost for that fight but you yourself are unwillingly to change from BM, pet damage from the other specs is less noticeable

adapt or nerd rage

[NomadKing]

I play a demo lock, you don't sac your pet


maybe BM won't be that good on the fight, it isn't worth the rage you are putting out compared to simply using your second spec for that fight.


it's funny you claim unholy dk's should just go to frost for that fight but you yourself are unwillingly to change from BM, pet damage from the other specs is less noticeable

adapt or nerd rage

It's not just 1 fight, it's several fights this tier that have buff mechanics that don't apply to pets correctly. Your also missing one of the key points of this thread - whichever hunter spec you are your still losing DPS from your pet not getting buffed correctly because even as SV or MM the pet is ~15% of the hunters DPS.

Read Saorons post above you, it's simply something ALL pet classes shouldn't have to deal with and every Blizz response on the matter is nothing but an excuse for lazy programming.

[jonoy8]

It's not just 1 fight, it's several fights this tier that have buff mechanics that don't apply to pets correctly. Your also missing one of the key points of this thread - whichever hunter spec you are your still losing DPS from your pet not getting buffed correctly because even as SV or MM the pet is ~15% of the hunters DPS.

Read Saorons post above you, it's simply something ALL pet classes shouldn't have to deal with and every Blizz response on the matter is nothing but an excuse for lazy programming.

yeah i'm sure they specifically designed encounters for the sole purpose of making it bad for hunters

just stop complaining, no one has even run them yet, ptr doesn't count as any final evidence.

if hunter pets and hunters got the buff it would be unbalanced most likely, don't just lay some baseless claim that blizz programming is sloppy

[NomadKing]

yeah i'm sure they specifically designed encounters for the sole purpose of making it bad for hunters

just stop complaining, no one has even run them yet, ptr doesn't count as any final evidence.

if hunter pets and hunters got the buff it would be unbalanced most likely, don't just lay some baseless claim that blizz programming is sloppy

No one said they do design them that way, pets are often an oversight in thier design which is part of the problem - it's also not a Hunter specific problem, as many people have pointed out (including me in the very post you quoted)

People are talking about current content, what has the PTR got to do with anything? Thankfully the next tier doesn't feature a host of pet unfriendly bosses.

Baseless claim? The fact that pets don't receive the buffs isn't by design, this is evident by the fact they had to fix Garalon to do so, which means it's a mistake. Not fixing an obvious mistake is lazy programming (I said lazy, not sloppy)

[Deleted]

sdffffffffffffffffffff

[Saoron]

My god are all warlocks as dense as the ones on this thread ? First of all, to re-iterate the probably 100th time as already mentioned, READ the fucking thread topic. Does it say "GC has no intention of fixing HUNTER pets when it comes to mechanical buffs" ? NO. It does not. It says 'fixing pets'. We are talking about pets in general.

The whole argument about how hunters are unique in this situation though, comes from the fact that we do not have the option of NOT using pets. We are a full fledged pet class. We have permanent pets that we cannot choose to NOT use. Summoned pets are different. If for some reason, there was a bug with summoned pets. Then we would simply not use the Dire Beast TALENT. And we would use either of the other two. BUT, we cannot get rid of our PERMANENT pets.
All the other classes that use pets, are able to get rid of their pets by either switching a talent or switching specs.

Now, I will say this with no disrespect towards casual players. As I know there are plenty of them that frequent these forums. Majority of them are intelligent people who can discern the difference. But when we are talking about theorycrafting and min/maxing, we are trying to figure out the BEST possible output of a class. And to the people who say 'well play w/e you want. who cares about what's the best. who cares about theorycrafting. Meters are useless' all the while going to EJ forums or noxxic or icy veins to go look up their classes to learn how to play. To them I just hit my forehead with my palm since they don't get the irony. And if you really don't care, then don't post. kthnx. This place is not for you.

Now, as far as warlocks are concerned. I don't know which tier you people are stuck in, maybe firelands. But THIS tier, AFFLICTION is the best single target spec. With which talent ? anyone ? Grimoire of Sacrifice. For DEMONOLOGY, yes sacrifice is a dps loss. But WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU PLAYING DEMONOLOGY on progression ? All this debate was based on this tier's PROGRESSION. Where hunters DID get sat on garalon and protectors. The only reason we were brought to SG and Will was due to our utility and mobility. Not for our damage.

And once again, as far as progression (while relevant) goes, any dps would always be using the highest damage spec. So as far as single target goes, for let's say Heroic protectors, a Warlock would be AFFLICTION with GoSAC (highest dmg spec), and a hunter would be BM. Warlock = no issue whatsoever since they don't have a pet. Entire argument on this thread is hence irrelevant. Hunter on the other hand, who is BM, will be forced to go SV since BM is too reliant on pet damage. SV still has a significant portion of it's damage come from pets. So they are at some disadvantage. Warlocks disadvantage = 0.

Now if some LFR or normal mode heroes want to come in and say well I play Demo! Well good for you. Nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind, if you are progressing on H protectors through some miracle, and playing Demo, you are already gimping your raid by not playing the best spec. But let's say the raid leader is an idiot and doesn't know affliction is the best spec, along with the warlock who's playing demo. What the warlock would have to do in that case, since pet classes are at a disadvantage, would be to switch specs to Affliction and use GoSaC. Which in turn, outside of removing the pet disadvantage, would just straight up boost their dps by miles.

In conclusion, Affliction with no pet = best warlock spec for single target. Demo with pet = best AOE spec. AOE. Much like how SV is the best aoe hunter spec. So no, in THIS TIER, tier 14, any fight which has a pet bug, has ZERO impact on warlock dps cuz THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO FUCKING USE PETS IN THE FIRST PLACE. This is the reason they nerfed GoSac for tier FIFTEEN. the NEXT TIER. Which is NOT what we are talking about on THIS thread.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 07:48 AM ----------

I play a demo lock, you don't sac your pet


maybe BM won't be that good on the fight, it isn't worth the rage you are putting out compared to simply using your second spec for that fight.


it's funny you claim unholy dk's should just go to frost for that fight but you yourself are unwillingly to change from BM, pet damage from the other specs is less noticeable

adapt or nerd rage

Frost doesn't have a permanent pet. Let me break this down barney style for you. A dps dk has two options. 1 is unholy which uses a permanent pet. 2 is Frost which doesn't use a pet. Ghouls are common but they are summoned pets for short duration. Mages have three specs. Frost, which uses a permanent pet. Fire and Arcane don't have pets. Warlocks have three specs. Affliction (atleast for now) doesn't use pets. Demo and Destruction use pets. All those classes have a spec or talent that allows them to pew pew without a pet.

Hunters have three specs. BM/SV/MM. ALL OF THEM USE FUCKING PETS. And no, we do not have any talent like GoSac or have a fourth magical non pet spec. That was the point that was being made.

And again, if any of those classes had their pet specs be the top spec, they still wouldn't be the same as hunters, but they'd be sort of similar in the sense that if they go into a fight where pets are bugged they'd be forced to go with a non pet, lower dps spec. But in THIS tier. That is NOT the case. Dk ? frost is better than unholy. No disadvantage. Mages ? Arcane is better than frost. No disadvantage. Warlock ? Affliction with gosac is better than demo and dest. No disadvantage. All their top dmg specs for single target are already NON pet specs. Our top ST dmg spec is the spec which relies the MOST on our pet. More than any other class in the game. 50-60%. If we are going from BM to SV we are losing dmg even before any pet bugs. If any of those other classes switch from their pet specs to non pet spec, they GAIN dps as the specs by themselves are superior.

[Moinaldo]

All the mages are either arcane or fire right now in t14. They don't have any pets whatsoever. Locks can sack their pet and all the dks now are frost/can go frost. You are just trying to attack him.

Hunters can go MM/SV... you are just trying to justify this thread.

[Saoron]

Hunters can go MM/SV... you are just trying to justify this thread.

Read my post above. Please don't talk about spec balance when you don't even know how each spec performs currently relative to each other. I will not repeat myself. All the points were mentioned in my last post. If you cannot understand english, let me know and I will google translate it to whichever language works for you. If you still don't understand, then just go 'take noobs to school' somewhere else and stop posting. There really should be an IQ limiter for these forums.

[Dracodraco]

Hunters can go MM/SV... you are just trying to justify this thread.

Read the thread or get out. If I hear more comments that fails to aknowledge the points made in this thread (the fact that hunters out of all classes are the only class without an option to not use a pet), I'm going to start handing infractions out for trolling, because at this point, no one can be so dense as to not understand what has been said over and over on the past few page.


Oh, and just FYI - we already DO go survival. We still lose dps from having a pet (although less than we would if we stuck to BM), and on top of that we lose dps because surv is a lower damage spec than BM on singletarget.

[Kibu]

Read the thread or get out. If I hear more comments that fails to aknowledge the points made in this thread (the fact that hunters out of all classes are the only class without an option to not use a pet), I'm going to start handing infractions out for trolling, because at this point, no one can be so dense as to not understand what has been said over and over on the past few page.


Oh, and just FYI - we already DO go survival. We still lose dps from having a pet (although less than we would if we stuck to BM), and on top of that we lose dps because surv is a lower damage spec than BM on singletarget.

Wow your patience boggles the mind...@Moinaldo, please less clueless, more out of this forum.