LFR release pacing for casual raiders

[corngrenade]

Having to wait 1 or 2 months (depending on if the patch schedule is LFR section release every 1 or 2 weeks) for all the LFRs to unlock is just crappy for casual raiders who only get like 6 hours or so a week. I'm not sure it's possible for those types of guilds to exist anymore. Those type of players really don't get an extreme amount of time to play so they need all the LFR upgrades they can get to chop down normal modes. Does this mean that these types of players should just wait a few months after the patch is out to re-sub? My personal opinion is: yes.

[CptAwesome]

If your guild is so far behind the progression curve that LFR is going to give you big upgrades, why are you even concerned about the pace of anything?

[Reyzzz]

6 hours is fine if you aren't bad.

[Temp name]

You shouldn't need LFR to kill normal modes.

[Ryuke]

If your guild is so far behind the progression curve that LFR is going to give you big upgrades, why are you even concerned about the pace of anything?

Agreed. If you're someone who truly cares how far you progress while raiding and not simply the activity of going into a raid attempting to down anything you can for the sake of just having fun with other people to chill out or what not then you aren't what id considered a "casual" raider. Yeah it's crappy that some people's lives only allow them to raid 6+ hours a week but in the end that's just how it is. You'll see the content in about the same time "semi-hardcore" raiders will as if you were actually progression raiding 4+ hours a day several days a week in normal modes. Think of it as "Artificial Progression" and the unlocking of a new wing is your guild finally downing that gateway boss to move on. LFRs original purpose wasn't to make it so you can acquire gear to plow through normal modes it was to allow the true casual players who NEVER raided a day in their lives to see the content that wasn't previously possible to see by non raiders before.

[Devwar]

If you're concerned about not having enough gear for normal mode Throne of Thunder, perhaps your guild should revisit Heart of Fear and Terrace of the Endless Spring for some items during the first few weeks?

[Deleted]

Normal mode ToT ramps up after Megaera. Ji-khun, at least on 25 normal, was pretty damn hard to both a) execute and b) meet the DPS/healing requirements, and that was in the scaled gear level of 509~. I don't expect a guild to fully complete normal mode ToT unless they're in full BiS gear from this tier.

[Ryuke]

Normal mode ToT ramps up after Megaera. Ji-khun, at least on 25 normal, was pretty damn hard to both a) execute and b) meet the DPS/healing requirements, and that was in the scaled gear level of 509~. I don't expect a guild to fully complete normal mode ToT unless they're in full BiS gear from this tier.

Exactly this also applies to 10 man normal. Jinrokh (The first boss) will most likely be the stone guards 2.0 for casual guilds as it requires a lot of personal player awareness and has mechanics that can wipe your raid if 1 person screws up.

[LordRvh]

Normal mode ToT ramps up after Megaera. Ji-khun, at least on 25 normal, was pretty damn hard to both a) execute and b) meet the DPS/healing requirements, and that was in the scaled gear level of 509~. I don't expect a guild to fully complete normal mode ToT unless they're in full BiS gear from this tier.

Seriously? Aww man. I'm gonna expect it'll have a some tuned adjustments before and/or after live.

That's just cruel. Lmao.

My guild cleared everything on normal, only 4 heroic bosses atm. This should be real interesting!

[Deleted]

"Tier 14 had a few too many hard DPS checks on Normal difficulty, so in Tier 15 you should beat Normal difficulty by mastering the mechanics, not having a certain amount of DPS."

Indicates that the dps requirements will be tuned down on live, compared to ptr.

[Deleted]

"Tier 14 had a few too many hard DPS checks on Normal difficulty, so in Tier 15 you should beat Normal difficulty by mastering the mechanics, not having a certain amount of DPS."

Indicates that the dps requirements will be tuned down on live, compared to ptr.

I didn't mean that enrages were an issue, I meant that on Ji-khun 25 player Quills and the hatchling platforms require high, co-ordinated DPS. Likewise normal Megaera's mechanics actually make it harder (IMO) in normal than on heroic. Iron Qon had a high healing requirement too and the DPS was high as well. Do not be fooled, those DPS/HPS checks are not enrages they're more "this thing does a huge amount of damage" or "this thing requires a huge amount of DPS" - this will wipe you. Every boss has some sort of "check" like that. I can see Primordius/Durumu being a pug-wiper to be honest.

[Marooned]

You do not need LFR gear for normals, LFR is for those you want to do LFR, normals for those who want to do normals, separate progression paths...

Actually as a casual I rarely do LFR, they are so boring, I just do normals once a week with my guild on Sundays.

[Deleted]

I didn't mean that enrages were an issue, I meant that on Ji-khun 25 player Quills and the hatchling platforms require high, co-ordinated DPS. Likewise normal Megaera's mechanics actually make it harder (IMO) in normal than on heroic. Iron Qon had a high healing requirement too and the DPS was high as well. Do not be fooled, those DPS/HPS checks are not enrages they're more "this thing does a huge amount of damage" or "this thing requires a huge amount of DPS" - this will wipe you. Every boss has some sort of "check" like that. I can see Primordius/Durumu being a pug-wiper to be honest.

Read again, the quoted post is talking about dps checks (exactly what you are typing about), not just enrages.

There'll obviously still be some kind of dps requirement/check, but for normal this one will probably be tuned (if blizzard follows what they've said) to avoid the usage of an excessive amount of healers more than anything.

[zaneosak]

Exactly this also applies to 10 man norma. (The first boss) will most likely be the stone guards 2.0 for casual guilds as it requires a lot of personal player awareness and has mechanics that can wipe your raid if 1 person screws up.

Jinrohk is a joke. Everything after him has quite alot going on . i think most guilds that meet the 7 min soft enrage will kill him in less than five tries. Gives them some hope but you will be able to tell very fast upon pulling horridon if you belong in ToT

[Deleted]

Having to wait 1 or 2 months (depending on if the patch schedule is LFR section release every 1 or 2 weeks) for all the LFRs to unlock is just crappy for casual raiders who only get like 6 hours or so a week. I'm not sure it's possible for those types of guilds to exist anymore. Those type of players really don't get an extreme amount of time to play so they need all the LFR upgrades they can get to chop down normal modes. Does this mean that these types of players should just wait a few months after the patch is out to re-sub? My personal opinion is: yes.

Hyperbole much?

I guess these guilds not exist before LFR then?

I am in one of those guild since mid WotLK and I will love it if they release one wing every 2 weeks it removes the felling that I need to do it.

By the time we get to the last part being opened we should be making "some" progress in normals and LFR will fell less of a "requirement" than it currently does.

I really really hope the rumours are true!

[Deleted]

Read again, the quoted post is talking about dps checks (exactly what you are typing about), not just enrages.

There'll obviously still be some kind of dps requirement/check, but for normal this one will probably be tuned (if blizzard follows what they've said) to avoid the usage of an excessive amount of healers more than anything.

I didn't think any of the ToT encounters were hard in the testing gear we were given, but then again we're an organized top 20 guild. For your average run of the mill guild, with 0 guides available, I think the instance will be solid and really tough. I really do not expect Lei Shen to drop to any guild unless they're entering him with an average of 509-512 (which is pretty much current BiS).

[Deleted]

I didn't think any of the ToT encounters were hard in the testing gear we were given, but then again we're an organized top 20 guild. For your average run of the mill guild, with 0 guides available, I think the instance will be solid and really tough. I really do not expect Lei Shen to drop to any guild unless they're entering him with an average of 509-512 (which is pretty much current BiS).

Yes I agree that the ToT encounters seemed reasonably challenging on the ptr (not that I could test all of them, I've had massive issues with ptr lately), however considering that:
1.) Most guilds who haven't cleared all the current content can't reach the same ilvl as we had on the ptr testing.
2.) Blizzard have stated that normal mode is intended to be possible to down if you execute it correctly, without harsh dps requirements.
I think it's safe to assume that some encounters (e.g. horridon) will be tuned down on live compared to ptr.

[Celar]

LFR is meant for players who don't have time to even do normal modes, Blizzard said that somewhere.

[Deleted]

Yes I agree that the ToT encounters seemed reasonably challenging on the ptr (not that I could test all of them, I've had massive issues with ptr lately), however considering that:
1.) Most guilds who haven't cleared all the current content can't reach the same ilvl as we had on the ptr testing.
2.) Blizzard have stated that normal mode is intended to be possible to down if you execute it correctly, without harsh dps requirements.
I think it's safe to assume that some encounters (e.g. horridon) will be tuned down on live compared to ptr.

There's a heavy danger with this. If the live versions are indeed easier than the PTR versions you can expect to see top end guilds do 4-5 separate raids to funnel gear to mains, this'll mean than the heroic modes wont be "as tough" as I believe they will be. Iron Qon HC and Twin Consorts HC was tested with 537 ilvl and seemed relatively easy, but 537 ilvl on the PTR would essentially be that tier's "bis". I think most of the challenge of the starting bosses will be based around the gear of the guilds doing them. Horridon seemed relatively easy, as did Jinrokh, in 522 average. I believe guilds who are able to run 4-5 separate raids can achieve a 522 ilvl average.

[judgementofantonidas]

Having to wait 1 or 2 months (depending on if the patch schedule is LFR section release every 1 or 2 weeks) for all the LFRs to unlock is just crappy for casual raiders who only get like 6 hours or so a week. I'm not sure it's possible for those types of guilds to exist anymore. Those type of players really don't get an extreme amount of time to play so they need all the LFR upgrades they can get to chop down normal modes. Does this mean that these types of players should just wait a few months after the patch is out to re-sub? My personal opinion is: yes.

We raid between 6 and 9 hours a week, maintain a fairly consistent crawl through content and are for the most part content with our progress. Yes we take a lot of trolling from the guilds that have umpteen of a kazzillion heroic down thirty seconds after release but we are at no risk of imploding nor dissbanding. We are a firmly average raiding guild with average normal mode players. LFR is not a gearing path nor should it ever be, hence it's staggered release after raiders have had a chance to butt their heads against normal modes.