Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Deleted]

Btw, who would win? Gogeta vs Vegito?

Vegito easily. Even being turned into a piece of candy wouldn't stop him from beating you up.

[Adramalech]

Vegito easily. Even being turned into a piece of candy wouldn't stop him from beating you up.

True.

Assuming both fusions have access to the same level of transformations, Vegetto wins simply because the potara fusion is more efficient than the fusion dance. Assuming that both of them had Goku and Vegeta at the same powers, that both of them had 0 training after fusion and that they can both access the same transformations, it's Vegetto all the way. Not that Gogeta wouldn't put up a fight, but at most he'd just amuse Vegetto for a while. And even if they were at the same power or if Gogeta was superior, there's the cold fact that fusion dance has a timer. If Vegetto could hold Gogeta at bay long enough, the fusion would fall off and Vegetto would then have undisputed advantage.

Every time the subject of Vegetto vs Gogeta comes up, I wonder if DBM is gonna do that at some point, though I find it unlikely for one reason alone: the DBM Vegetto from U16 has had what, two decades of training on top of already being stronger than everyone else in his base form? Even as a basic super saiyan, I think DBM's Vegetto could probably kick U18 Gogeta's ass easily, though it's hard to tell since Goku and Vegeta's power growth is still largely unknown.

[Raptor With a Saber]

We all agree Captain ginyu would defeat anyone in a 1v1 fight. Since well every dbz character takes a blast from a weaker opponent to show well..if they were in jail theyed be the top.. Its safe too assume ginyu would just switch bodies then kill his old self.

[Adramalech]

We all agree Captain ginyu would defeat anyone in a 1v1 fight. Since well every dbz character takes a blast from a weaker opponent to show well..if they were in jail theyed be the top.. Its safe too assume ginyu would just switch bodies then kill his old self.

It depends a lot. When Ginyu displayed his body switch ability the first time, he pretty much had the scales tipped in his favor. Without the Kaioken, Goku's power was pretty close to Ginyu's, so their speed would as well. Goku was pretty shocked that Ginyu wounded himself so badly, and wasn't aware of the technique. He was a fool for not dodging, but Goku is pretty naive too, so it's not a stretch to think he just thought Ginyu was going whacko from being losing against him. Then Vegeta kinda walked into the body switch too, but he wasn't there tanking the thing. He was already moving or distracted enough that he wouldn't be able to evade it.

I'm sure any person who's 100% focused on the fight and knows of Ginyu's ability would never allow him to perform it, unless they're too slow to avoid or stop it. And even assuming Ginyu does succeed in the body switch, he doesn't have full control of the body. If he were to switch bodies with Buu saga Goku, he'd have access to an amazing power. But he wouldn't know how to turn super saiyan or use the Kaioken, just like happened on Namek. All it would take would be one single person who's stronger than base Goku and Ginyu would be toast. Of course, that doesn't apply if it's a one on one fight. But he wouldn't defeat anyone of equal or superior power who knew he had the body switch, or anyone who would be careful enough to just dodge everything. Someone cocky like Vegeta (if he didn't know of the body switch) might take it head on just to mock Ginyu, and then find himself in a purple and horny body.

[Rakeer]

so heres a thought, what if ginyu took over gogeta or gotenks body. What would happen when the fusion limit ran up?

[Adramalech]

so heres a thought, what if ginyu took over gogeta or gotenks body. What would happen when the fusion limit ran up?

I have no idea. Maybe the body switch would be reverted. Or maybe it would "clone", or even split Ginyu's soul, or maybe have an effect similar to the Multi-form technique. Or maybe the body switch just cannot be performed on a body that resulted from a fusion of two or more beings that still maintains all fusees souls separate (fusion dance).

In a way, I like that this is left unanswered. It gives fanfiction authors like DBM's Salagir or Bringer of Death's npberryhill leeway to come up with their own stuff. At least these two I'm sure they wouldn't come up with something silly. I've read enough of their stuff to expect nothing but good stuff.

[OrcsRLame]

I would argue that all energy works the same in DBZ, and with Ginyu's low power level his body switch technique would never penetrate the ki aura of some of the stronger characters, especially fused ones.

[Duncanîdaho]

I would argue that all energy works the same in DBZ, and with Ginyu's low power level his body switch technique would never penetrate the ki aura of some of the stronger characters, especially fused ones.

Maybe that's why he never tried stealing Frieza's body. I always thought that was weird.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 02:16 PM ----------

Goku and Ginyu swtiching bodies.

Ginyu was actually weaker then even base form Goku when he switched bodies with Goku. The Z fighters seem to be a rare breed in the sense they do some funky control stuff with their power level. Many fighters(like the entire Ginyu force) don't have this ability. Vegeta picked it up after he fought Goku on Earth and learned it from them. That ability to just hide your power inside somewhere and then just be able to "power up". Frieza is actually the first villain in DBZ we see to also have this ability not linked to a transformation(Zarbon and Freiza's own first 3 forms). But yeah, I guess all I'm saying is that's why Ginyu was actually weaker then base form Goku when they switched bodies. Ginyu had no idea how to jack up the bodies power level by focusing the energy as well as the transformations you mention.

[Adramalech]

Ginyu was actually weaker then even base form Goku when he switched bodies with Goku. The Z fighters seem to be a rare breed in the sense they do some funky control stuff with their power level. Many fighters(like the entire Ginyu force) don't have this ability. Vegeta picked it up after he fought Goku on Earth and learned it from them. That ability to just hide your power inside somewhere and then just be able to "power up". Frieza is actually the first villain in DBZ we see to also have this ability not linked to a transformation(Zarbon and Freiza's own first 3 forms). But yeah, I guess all I'm saying is that's why Ginyu was actually weaker then base form Goku when they switched bodies. Ginyu had no idea how to jack up the bodies power level by focusing the energy as well as the transformations you mention.

I see. Then my memory failed me
I read through the Namek saga a few weeks ago, and I seem to recall Ginyu telling Jeice that his scouter picked up low powers because they could suppress them, and mentioned being able to do so as well, hence he would be able to "power up" even with Goku's body, he'd just never breach a certain power barrier because he can't execute the technique that does it. That part I'm sure of... but I was convinced that Goku was about equal with Ginyu without Kaioken. I guess I was wrong then.

I would argue that all energy works the same in DBZ, and with Ginyu's low power level his body switch technique would never penetrate the ki aura of some of the stronger characters, especially fused ones.

I didn't actually consider that. Although I agree that is the most likely possibility, isn't there the chance that some techniques just can't be blocked just with power alone? Guldo's time stopping abilities come to mind. I don't think his power level was ever mentioned, but we can assume from Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta's conversation that Guldo was pretty weak compared to even Krillin, who was the weakest of the three. Yet he managed to freeze him and Gohan. But again, like above when Dunc corrected me, my memory on stuff is kinda foggy, and the last time I read it was a mere few weeks ago... imagine if it was months.

I forgot to reply to why he didn't try to steal Frieza's body: I think you might be right about that. Being unable to do it is a pretty damn good reason. Though I always saw Ginyu as the kind of "blindly loyal" soldier, to the point that trying such a thing against his master would never cross his mind.

[Duncanîdaho]

I see. Then my memory failed me
I read through the Namek saga a few weeks ago, and I seem to recall Ginyu telling Jeice that his scouter picked up low powers because they could suppress them, and mentioned being able to do so as well, hence he would be able to "power up" even with Goku's body, he'd just never breach a certain power barrier because he can't execute the technique that does it. That part I'm sure of... but I was convinced that Goku was about equal with Ginyu without Kaioken. I guess I was wrong then.

I've never read the manga before so you could very well be right on that. In the anime though Jeice reads Ginyu's power level in Goku's body at 23,000 which is much lower then Goku's base which is 90,000 at the time without even kaioken. He even starts to power up once, tops out, then it starts to drop. It's like he is used to driving a car with an auto transmission and is now trying to drive a manual.

Actually going to the dragon wiki it does appear that Ginyu was in fact the first enemy to have the power up ability, not Frieza. I guess Goku's body was still to much for him to handle though since he couldn't even bring it to the base 90k.

[Adramalech]

I've never read the manga before so you could very well be right on that. In the anime though Jeice reads Ginyu's power level in Goku's body at 23,000 which is much lower then Goku's base which is 90,000 at the time without even kaioken. He even starts to power up once, tops out, then it starts to drop. It's like he is used to driving a car with an auto transmission and is now trying to drive a manual.

Actually going to the dragon wiki it does appear that Ginyu was in fact the first enemy to have the power up ability, not Frieza. I guess Goku's body was still to much for him to handle though since he couldn't even bring it to the base 90k.

Alright then

[Deleted]

Has anybody an idea in which time the movie "The legendary saiyan" plays? In the movie Gohan is allready able to transform into a super saiyan, but Goku is still allive. But Gohan learns to transform in preperation for the Cell-games. (sorry for bad english, hope u'll understand)

[OrcsRLame]

Has anybody an idea in which time the movie "The legendary saiyan" plays? In the movie Gohan is allready able to transform into a super saiyan, but Goku is still allive. But Gohan learns to transform in preperation for the Cell-games. (sorry for bad english, hope u'll understand)

I consider most of the movies to be alternate timelines. It doesn't really fit in anywhere. The only place it could fit in is during the week before the Cell games, but that's ridiculously unlikely for several reasons.

[Deleted]

Hehe, that's true.

Anyways, I would like to live there. :P

Btw, who would win? Gogeta vs Vegito?


....

Even SSJ2 Vegito is probably stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta IF Potaras are really multiplicative. Even though Fusion-Dance also has some kind of additional multiplicator (otherwise SSJ2 Gogeta wouldn't have been stronger than SSJ3 Goku against Janemba).

But think about it... it's very likely that super buu (+gohan) is stronger than a lot of DBGT characters. Mystic Gohan was a lot stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, who is a Fusion too (weaker than Gogeta though) and he got beaten up by Super Buu (+Gotenks) without having any chance. When buu absorbed Gohan, he still had the powers of trunks+goten inside him AND Mystic Gohan who was a lot stronger than Gotenks. I think that Super Buu (/w Gohan) could be as strong as Baby in DBGT.
And Vegito dominated him even in BASEFORM. It's stated many times, that it wasn't even necessary to go SSJ if he wanted to kill Buu. And as SSJ he was stronger than Super Buu even when he was transformed into a piece of Candy!

So Baseform Vegito is stronger than Super Buu (/w Gohan) who could be stronger than some DBGT Characters and therefore only a level below SSJ4. With SSJ i bet vegito is at least as strong as SSJ4 Goku. SSJ2 could be on a level with SSJ4 Gogeta... and then there is still SSJ3 which Vegito was 100% able to reach.

[OrcsRLame]

Even SSJ2 Vegito is probably stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta IF Potaras are really multiplicative. Even though Fusion-Dance also has some kind of additional multiplicator (otherwise SSJ2 Gogeta wouldn't have been stronger than SSJ3 Goku against Janemba).

But think about it... it's very likely that super buu (+gohan) is stronger than a lot of DBGT characters. Mystic Gohan was a lot stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, who is a Fusion too (weaker than Gogeta though) and he got beaten up by Super Buu (+Gotenks) without having any chance. When buu absorbed Gohan, he still had the powers of trunks+goten inside him AND Mystic Gohan who was a lot stronger than Gotenks. I think that Super Buu (/w Gohan) could be as strong as Baby in DBGT.
And Vegito dominated him even in BASEFORM. It's stated many times, that it wasn't even necessary to go SSJ if he wanted to kill Buu. And as SSJ he was stronger than Super Buu even when he was transformed into a piece of Candy!

So Baseform Vegito is stronger than Super Buu (/w Gohan) who could be stronger than some DBGT Characters and therefore only a level below SSJ4. With SSJ i bet vegito is at least as strong as SSJ4 Goku. SSJ2 could be on a level with SSJ4 Gogeta... and then there is still SSJ3 which Vegito was 100% able to reach.

Well, you're forgetting 3 things.

1. Goku in GT is roughly 400 times stronger than he is in Z, in base form. We know this because of how he can handle Uub in base form, (same power as Kid Buu) yet he could barely handle Kid Buu as SS3 in Z, and SS3 is a x400 multiplier. So base form GT Goku is greater than or equal to SS3 Goku from Z.

2. SS4 can basically be estimated as a x4000 power increase, or x10 over SS3.

3. The above calculations, (which would place SS4 Goku at roughly 1.6 million times his previous power level) ignore any power increases he gets in GT. And I'd wager that some fights gave him a huge Zenkai. Like the x33.3 increase he got from fighting Captain Ginyu. I feel like he gets hurt worse by Baby Super 17, and Omega Shenron.

[Deleted]

So great to see a time where both Goku and Vegeta were outclassed.
I am referring to the time when Goku was sick and Vegeta was mad about
being outclassed again when he saw Piccolo after his meeting with Cell.

Piccolo was the shit back then for a short period of time. Hehe.

[Adramalech]

So great to see a time where both Goku and Vegeta were outclassed.
I am referring to the time when Goku was sick and Vegeta was mad about
being outclassed again when he saw Piccolo after his meeting with Cell.

Piccolo was the shit back then for a short period of time. Hehe.

Indeed. Piccolo was badass, and even though he quickly became outclassed, he still lasted longer as a relevant character in terms of fighting power than the humans did. It's a shame that the non-saiyans, no matter how dedicated or how skilled they are, can never hope to even come close to a saiyan's power. Even if they had learned the Kaioken, even a basic super saiyan (mastered, of course) would still outclass them. Piccolo might have stood a chance if he learned Kaioken, but then comes SSJ2 to outclass him again.

[Nadev]

Piccolo was also stronger when`he fought Frieza's second form while Goku was healing and Vegeta was wetting himself.

[GennGreymane]

I consider most of the movies to be alternate timelines. It doesn't really fit in anywhere. The only place it could fit in is during the week before the Cell games, but that's ridiculously unlikely for several reasons.

Cell: Hey guys how was your week?

Goku: Oh it was great, battled cooler again, took on the legendary super saiyan, oh and an evil scientist from space tried to kill us all. How about you cell?

Cell: I hate a dream where I was krillin

Goku: thats awful!

Cell: and yamcha beat me!

Goku: OMG!

[Zoma]

Cell: and yamcha beat me!

Goku: OMG!

Actually, Cellin beat Yamcha, but he was exhausted after. Then he looked up and saw a Tri-Beam heading his way.