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  1. #521
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post



    I absolutely agree. The one thing I've never understood is how, after hitting undreamed of levels of subscribers and profits with BC and Vanilla, management at Blizz decided they needed to change the fundamentals of the game as they headed into Wrath. It's like they woke up one morning and went, "The present model got us to 12 million players. I guess it's time to dumb down the game to reduce complexity; change the gearing model; and change how talents, professions, abilities, and even classes work at a fundamental level. Oh, and let's make as much content as possible irrelevant while we're at it."
    I'm not sure we REALLY agree here... maybe only on the surface.

    First, BC hit 10 million subscribers at around the release of Sunwell content. In WotLK it peaked at 12 million.

    So you are selectively throwing out WotLK and making it irrelevant even though it hit 12 million at the END of the expansion after Ruby Sanctum was released which... very few people actually played. Which was 8 months AFTER the release of ICC and this was when I personally started to see friends and guildmates leave the game because no new content had been added in so long and there just wasn't anything left for them to do.

    So your conclusion is/was that WotLK began a trend of dumbing down the game, and that reduction in complexity was the reason for the decline in subs... I think it is the complete opposite.

    I should qualify this by saying that I have been playing since Vanilla, and have almost been on the moderate-hardcore in the amount of time that I play (but not necessarily a hardcore raider as it does not appeal and my availability does not work well with it).

    My reason for saying that we disagree is that things have become WAAAAY more complicated. Raid mechanics are far more complex than anything we saw in BC or in Vanilla. There is so much going on different phases, targets, roles.

    The accessibility of WotLK is what helped wow to peak. Separate lock out for 10 and 25 man, mean you could raid twice as much. Moving from 10 mans to 25 mans was a simpler transition and progression (despite being outside the realm of intended development).
    5 mans being a 15-30min endeavor, with decent upgrades at the end. Apropriate amount of dailies and rewards that were SEPARATE from any other content.

    In CATA it was the complete opposite, 5 mans were long drawn out and provide ghetto worthless rewards. Raids had a higher gear threshold to even participate in and thus made initially participating in them more difficult (not difficult themselves necessarily but brought back the importance of being properly geared to contribute or bring the group down) not only that while attempting to limit the number of buttons required to push made it much more important to really bring your A-game and be super focused on rotation and resource management, rather than just mindlessly face rolling.

    MoP had the right IDEA in the different type of content available to players, but failed in making it either required... or semi required, and poor rewards for content.

    MMOs live and die by the rewards provided to its participants.

    What they have done (from my perspective) is limit the amount of rewards EXCEPT when doing certain specific content. Thus encouraging you to participate in that content... unless of course you don't like that content
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    then you can go fuck yourself

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Of course you will argue, pointing to yourself, that they do not need to do dailies in order to fill the missing slots the problem is that many of the alternatives are worse or not even an option as far as these players are concerned no amount of Blizzard telling different and you repeating them is going to change their minds about this. Perception is king in the entertainment/leisure industry and the perception of many is that they are forced to complete dailies.ta has driven them
    That is PRECISELY the problem with dailies and why they are forced and really how the dailies are designed and how the gear got behind them in the first place. In fact if the other rewards were as good or even as reliable the large majority of you WOULDN'T TOUCH A DAILY. So by design they must be Compelling (FORCED BY PROGRESSION AND GEAR) to get you to do them and the alternatives must like wise suck and be subject to attrocious rng for instance or insane mat requirements. Dailies become the default choice.

    Saying their are optional is correct in the literal sense but untrue in the essential sense. For raiders they're about as optional as gems on your gear or enchants on your weapons. YOu can technically kill bosses without them, I did it all the time. To fucking lazy to regem gear fuck it. Still killed the boss. Now how many of you would argue to your raid leaders that such a thing was the case?

    For non raiders it's even worse. Even non raiders want to progress. They are essentially just left with lfr and sha ques. Outside of that it's face the attrocious BG grind (which is potentially even more painful than dailies IMHO), farm gold to buy gear (which is still really done with dailies anyway and is also a pretty shit way as the prices can be wholly inflated) and/or unsub until they admit their mistake.

    It is really dishonest and disingenuous of Blizzard to hide behind this stance. It's cataclysm 2.0 all over again. I would have much rather they just come out and said yea dailies are part of the wheel, get over it but instead they decided to hide behind "optionality" of something as if it makes a fucking difference one way or another about the technical definition of the word optional.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 09:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    I'm not sure we REALLY agree here... maybe only on the surface.

    First, BC hit 10 million subscribers at around the release of Sunwell content. In WotLK it peaked at 12 million.

    So you are selectively throwing out WotLK and making it irrelevant even though it hit 12 million at the END of the expansion after Ruby Sanctum was released which... very few people actually played. Which was 8 months AFTER the release of ICC and this was when I personally started to see friends and guildmates leave the game because no new content had been added in so long and there just wasn't anything left for them to do.

    So your conclusion is/was that WotLK began a trend of dumbing down the game, and that reduction in complexity was the reason for the decline in subs... I think it is the complete opposite.

    I should qualify this by saying that I have been playing since Vanilla, and have almost been on the moderate-hardcore in the amount of time that I play (but not necessarily a hardcore raider as it does not appeal and my availability does not work well with it).

    My reason for saying that we disagree is that things have become WAAAAY more complicated. Raid mechanics are far more complex than anything we saw in BC or in Vanilla. There is so much going on different phases, targets, roles.

    The accessibility of WotLK is what helped wow to peak. Separate lock out for 10 and 25 man, mean you could raid twice as much. Moving from 10 mans to 25 mans was a simpler transition and progression (despite being outside the realm of intended development).
    5 mans being a 15-30min endeavor, with decent upgrades at the end. Apropriate amount of dailies and rewards that were SEPARATE from any other content.

    In CATA it was the complete opposite, 5 mans were long drawn out and provide ghetto worthless rewards. Raids had a higher gear threshold to even participate in and thus made initially participating in them more difficult (not difficult themselves necessarily but brought back the importance of being properly geared to contribute or bring the group down) not only that while attempting to limit the number of buttons required to push made it much more important to really bring your A-game and be super focused on rotation and resource management, rather than just mindlessly face rolling.

    MoP had the right IDEA in the different type of content available to players, but failed in making it either required... or semi required, and poor rewards for content.

    MMOs live and die by the rewards provided to its participants.

    What they have done (from my perspective) is limit the amount of rewards EXCEPT when doing certain specific content. Thus encouraging you to participate in that content... unless of course you don't like that content
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    then you can go fuck yourself
    This whole accessibility argument is also bunk imo. Do people not remember vanilla? Vanilla was the most inaccesbile vresion of this game ever. Why did it explode in tbc and wrath? BECAUSE THEY MADE THE GAME MORE ACCESSIBLE. Vastly more accessible in fact. They added avenus for gear outside the raid bringing greater accesibility to gear. Crafting actually became usefull, heroic dungeons gave you gear, and at the end of TBC you got VALOR points. Or what would we become valor points. The HISTORY of the success of warcraft is the history of an mmo that was more accessible than it's competitors by a large margin and increasingly only became more and more accessible.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So we are not allowed to discuss it because they "feel" like that?
    People can feel whatever they want.
    But don't start threads that they force you to do dailies.

    And we shouldn't tell people they are wrong because they won't listen anyway? What kind of nonsense is that..


    So? They were wrong.
    They are still wrong.

    Just because one stops paying for a subscription doesn't mean he is right.
    It is like banging your head on a brick wall. People have said why they feel this way over and over again quitting is a last resort for many but that is what they are doing. The way someone feels about something cannot be wrong... well it can but lets not go there .... so telling them they are wrong about the way the feel about dailies is pointless.

    Blizzard might not have intended for dailies to be required but many feel that they are, it is Blizzard that must adapt not the other way around.

  4. #524
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post

    This whole accessibility argument is also bunk imo. Do people not remember vanilla? Vanilla was the most inaccesbile vresion of this game ever. Why did it explode in tbc and wrath? BECAUSE THEY MADE THE GAME MORE ACCESSIBLE. Vastly more accessible in fact. They added avenus for gear outside the raid bringing greater accesibility to gear. Crafting actually became usefull, heroic dungeons gave you gear, and at the end of TBC you got VALOR points. Or what would we become valor points. The HISTORY of the success of warcraft is the history of an mmo that was more accessible than it's competitors by a large margin and increasingly only became more and more accessible.
    So how is this argument bunk? Because I agree with you that in BC and WotLK they attempted to make it more accessible. With Cata, and MoP they have tried to back track, limit access, and ensure the elitists still feel elitist no matter how it effects the game or community.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2013-03-04 at 09:58 PM.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    So how is this argument bunk?
    He meant the argument that that game being more accessible drove down subs is bunk.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    So how is this argument bunk?
    Sorry I was agreeing with you. People make the case that inaccessibility is fun and that the game was more fun because it was inaccessible but that's bunk.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 09:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    He meant the argument that that game being more accessible drove down subs is bunk.
    Thank you.

  7. #527
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Gotcha, we're on the same page now.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Well no shit Blizzard, thanks for noticing the outrage.
    hard to notice legitimate concerns from the sea of whine-fest that is the WoW forums.

    Personally there was a lot to do as a fresh 90. More shit to do than past few expansions had available at level cap. I did all of the rep because I wanted the mounts and other stuff you get @ exhalted. Eventually I stoped doing the dailies for the faction once i hit exhalted. Currently I only do tiller rep because I have not reached Best friends with everybody. There are weeks where I didn't do a single daily quest and still got VP cap. Were dailies mandatory for me? For gear? No definitely not. Raiding + LFR +daily dungeon/scneario = more VP than you can get for gear if i chose to buy and rest got from drops. Are they mandatory for other stuff like mounts...yea its their purpose/incentive.

    Just like you choose to run LFR/LFD for benefits you CHOOSE to do dailies for those benefits. Rep gaining tabards in LFD were a terrible idea in Wrath and I am happy that shit is gone. If that system was in place everyone would be in Vale sitting in the inn waiting on ques.

    I honestly do not think blizzard will ever make something that won't have people in an "outrage" and claim that old stuff was "better"

    [whiners] Not enough content
    [blizzard] Here are various daily quest you can do without cap and get cool rewards/experience lore/get tokens for bonus loot in raids
    [whiners] too much content! I feel like i am forced to do this now. Tnx blizz

    [whiners] Everyone sits in capitals and just que for LFD no one goes out into the world anymore
    [blizzard] no rep tabards so people would have to go out into the world/explore and earn their reputation
    [whiners] QQ bring back tabards I do not want to go out into the world to do stuff i want to que for dungeons only

    [whiners] my server is dead i never see other people. fix this
    [blizzard] introducing CRZ you can now see other people in place you thought were empty before
    [whiners] QQ now i have competition for my mobs/ore/plants/get ganked on pvp server you ruined my game-play

    [whiners] Blizzard is only catering to hardcore players and ignoring their casual base
    [blizzard] Here is LFR you can que when you like and do only what you want
    [whiners] QQ blizzard is only tailoring to casuals what about the hardcore players?
    [blizzard] here are Challenge modes for mounts/xmog gear
    [whiners] blizzard making gear/mount only exclusive to hard core what about the casual player?

    and this list can go on, and on, and on, and on...

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    It's more like a brick wall hitting another brick wall.

    But in my opinion it can be wrong.
    What is someone claimed he was forced to do heroic-mode?
    How many people need to cancel subscription before opinion becomes fact?

    And if many people feel that way, Blizzard is free to try and change their mind.
    If Blizzard fails to do so, they can either lose subs or change it.
    The problem is that people were attacking Blizzard and other users on this forum because they "tried to change their mind".
    Who has claimed that they are forced to heroic raids? You would have to ask Blizzard how many cancellations are needed but one thing is for sure we have reached that number.

    Are you on a piss take? Or do you really not understand how customers interact with businesses? People did not complain about dailies because they wanted their minds changed they complained because they did not want to have to do them.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Who has claimed that they are forced to heroic raids? You would have to ask Blizzard how many cancellations are needed but one thing is for sure we have reached that number.

    Are you on a piss take? Or do you really not understand how customers interact with businesses? People did not complain about dailies because they wanted their minds changed they complained because they did not want to have to do them.
    He's saying potentially if people whining about being forced to run dailies are forced to run them then what's to stop them from whining about being to forced to run heroic raids. Well aside from that being totally stupid and asanine and unlikely for the majority of players as the level of difficulty is prohibitive for them, it misses the point entirely. Valor rewards have a history in this game NOT tied to dailies. The reason dailies are forced is because dailies are a sure reward that is relatively EASY in terms of challenge to accomplish but time consuming. If heroic raids were as easy as dailies and not time consuming then yes people would feel forced to do them as well. The comparison is so retarded on so many levels.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    *snip*
    There are a lot of myths about the growth that WotLK really had on subscriptions.

    January 2007 there were 8 million subscribers at the beginning of TBC and peaked at 11 million in October 2009 prior to the launch of Wrath. One week after the launch of Wrath, Blizz announced 11.5 million subscribers. It wasn't until October 7, 2010 that Blizzard announced subs were over 12 mil.

    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847812
    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847816
    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847881

    So essentially in 2 years TBC gained ~3 mil subs while Wratch gained ~1 mil (500k if you don't include the first week of subs). Even though Wrath had the higher sub number, TBC had MUCH more growth. And growth has significantly slowed down since TBC and is actually on the decline since Wrath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    There are a lot of myths about the growth that WotLK really had on subscriptions.

    January 2007 there were 8 million subscribers at the beginning of TBC and peaked at 11 million in October 2009 prior to the launch of Wrath. One week after the launch of Wrath, Blizz announced 11.5 million subscribers. It wasn't until October 7, 2010 that Blizzard announced subs were over 12 mil.

    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847812
    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847816
    Source: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847881

    So essentially in 2 years TBC gained ~3 mil subs while Wratch gained ~1 mil (500k if you don't include the first week of subs). Even though Wrath had the higher sub number, TBC had MUCH more growth. And growth has significantly slowed down since TBC and is actually on the decline since Wrath.
    Which still says NOTHING about a correlation between accessiblity or inaccessibility in content. The success of wow was at least in part because it was MORE accessible than the other games on the market. This continued in TBC which made the game EVEN MORE ACCESSIBLE than in vanilla. What it says is that the market was tapped by and large in TBC and the potential growth was in decline because well the market for this type of game is only so big. It HAS NOTHING to do with accessibility. I mean if it did then EQ would have been the game to have 10 million subs. Or the final fantasy mmo where you lose xp when you die. can't remember the number.

    Their is NO relation between sub decline and accessibility. Their is no proof of a relationship other than they kinda happen at the same time but not really. That argument is bunk.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 10:44 PM.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I just claimed it.
    And because I feel forced it IS forced according to your logic.. Because there is no difference, right?

    1) People complained because they felt forced to do them.
    2a) Blizzard responded by trying to learn people that it's optional.
    2b) People weren't smart enough to understand what optional means.
    3) Blizzard changed it.

    So according to you they should skip step 2 and immediately cave to QQ'ing, no matter how irrational it is?
    A business that changes their direction on every customer-whim is a bad company.
    If you do something, you have to try to stick with it and try to explain why it was the right choice.

    That's how businesses interact with customers.
    Customers complain about irrational stuff >> Company tries to explain it.
    Customers can now come to senses and nothing changes.
    Or customers still complain and the company changes it.
    Their complaints aren't irrational no matter how you try and square it because the dailies very much are forced in any meaningful sense. now if you don't agree that's fine but that doesn't make them irrational. Their is so much wrong with the post and everything you post in general that it gives me a headache to read you. I would argue that the developers catering to YOUR wishes is irrational. In fact I would argue you are being irrational as a whole but hey man go complain to somebody about it.

  14. #534
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I just claimed it.
    And because I feel forced it IS forced according to your logic.. Because there is no difference, right?
    There's also this feeling that you are not sincere in your feelings, therefore you are not sincere about your feelings. You are not really feel forced to do heroic raids. By our logic. Carry on.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    There's also this feeling that you are not sincere in your feelings, therefore you are not sincere about your feelings. You are not really feel forced to do heroic raids. By our logic. Carry on.
    Absolutely not. The argument that's being made doesn't apply to heroic raids at all. It only applies to dailies because they are a relatively EASY and REGULAR source of reward that is just incredibly bland and time consuming. If they weren't easy they wouldn't be accessible, if it wasn't accessible it wouldn't be forced. If it wasn't a regular source of reward it wouldn't be forced.

    Honestly when someone makes that argument and thinks they are rational making it I start to wonder if they're even paying attention.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 11:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Nobody is forced to do heroic raids.
    That's a personal choice.
    Just as doing dailies is a personal choice.
    Are you even reading the conversation that's happening? Or are you so far up your arguments own ass that you can't see what anybody else is saying?

    The majority of complaints on MMOC WERE NOT THAT. The majority of complaints in this thread alone weren't even close to that. It's not false to say DAILIES FEEL FORCED because they very much DO FEEL FORCED. It is false to say that any content is forced because the reality is nothing in this game is forced. I could stop playing tmmrw. That's a real choice mind you, not the non choice the dailies present. If you don't like forced, and you people seem to be hung up over the literal definitions of these words (ignoring the substance of the arguments that are being made) then we'll start using compelled. Dailies are to compelling which is leading them to feel VERY FORCED. Remove the gear from them. Simple.

    This conversation is retarded. Honestly. Even the developers have acknowledged it's a problem and it FELT FORCED. Because it very much WAS FORCED in any meaningful context. In some abstract post modern existentialist sense I'm sure nothing is forced. Sartre would probably be arguing that exact same thing. However in a very real sense it is forced. You people arguing that they aren't are arguing the academic argument and ignoring the realities. To fucking bad for you that the game will be changed to meet our needs and desires instead of your sophistry.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 11:04 PM.

  16. #536
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    When someone starts a thread and yells "I cannot do LFR without doing dailies!" that is irrational.
    It's irrational because it's false.
    It's false because people can do LFR without touching dailies.
    You are missing some bits here
    Yes you technically can do LFR without touching dailies.
    You are also technically can do normal raids completely naked.
    The point is, can and actually do - are different things.

    If you are doing LFR - you need Elder Charms for extra rolls to get the most of it, this charms were added to the game just for that sole purpose - extra rolls.
    In light of low LFR drop rates - they are required. Without them you're just wasting your time there.
    The only way to get charms - via dailies.
    Also, LFR grants 90 VP per run per week. Up to 450 VP total.
    To spend VP you need Reputation with every faction at least honored.
    Should I say, hm, dailies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    You failed to understand the logic.

    Nobody is forced to do heroic raids.
    That's a personal choice.
    Just as doing dailies is a personal choice.
    I used our logic, there was nothing to understand.
    Whatever we feel - is.

    Dailies are mandatory, heroic raiding is not.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2013-03-04 at 11:06 PM.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I just claimed it.
    And because I feel forced it IS forced according to your logic.. Because there is no difference, right?

    1) People complained because they felt forced to do them.
    2a) Blizzard responded by trying to learn people that it's optional.
    2b) People weren't smart enough to understand what optional means.
    3) Blizzard changed it.

    So according to you they should skip step 2 and immediately cave to QQ'ing, no matter how irrational it is?
    A business that changes their direction on every customer-whim is a bad company.
    If you do something, you have to try to stick with it and try to explain why it was the right choice.

    That's how businesses interact with customers.
    Customers complain about irrational stuff >> Company tries to explain it.
    Customers can now come to senses and nothing changes.
    Or customers still complain and the company changes it.
    You believe that a business meeting its customers' needs is irrational? I honestly still am not sure if this is a joke I am genuinely speechless that someone would be this clueless. Seriously how old are you?

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Are you reading anything in this thread?
    Or what people have been saying for the last few months?


    That was exactly what people were complaining about!
    "Hurdur, I want to follow each path that awards gear so it is forced!"


    But people weren't saying that, they were saying it WAS FORCED.
    The FACT that enough people pointed out how they got into ToES without doing dailies and without good luck in LFR is enough proof that it was not forced at all.


    Remove the gear from them and nobody cares anymore.
    If people are working 7 days a week, they want a reward.
    The "problem" is that the reward is actually a reward.
    And the modern MMO-crowd feels like they should obtain every single reward in the game if that helps character-progression.

    And yes, there is a fucking difference between "compelling" and "forced".
    Being forced is when it's the ONLY path you can take.
    Dailies was never the only path, which makes it non-forced.
    Because IT IS FORCED. Don't you get it? In essence it is terrible forced. In literal actuality it might not be but so what? Nothing is forced in actuality. Like even in Thrall knocked on your door, called you a bitch and told you to run dailies YOU'D STILL HAVE A CHOICE. Short of being telepathically controlled or brainwashed everything is a choice to some degree or another. I mean theirs probably a legal definition where choice flies out the window and people start to have no choice in matters but that's a digression. The fact is that it was INCREDIBLY FORCED and subsequently felt VERY FORCED. Forced isn't a binary. Theirs degrees to it.

    Your attempt to paint people with grievances over the dailies as being irrational is cute but unecessary. In the end YOU end up looking more irrational because well even the developers acknowledge how forced it felt. I check these forums ROUTINELY and was active during the worst part of the daily fiasco at the start of the expansion and the majority of people posting were complaining as either raiders or players looking for an alternative path to gearing outside of LFR but not because they thought they needed it to get into lfr. Well except when the que for lfr had some ridiculous requirement that you couldn't meet with just the dungeon gear which was stupid and they lowered it so even BLizzard acknowledged that. After that totally legit greivance nobody or next to nobody was bitching about dailies to get to lfr. That's a fucking strawman you built up to paint people as irrational. Doesn't work for me.

    Their is ZERO different between compelled and forced because in reality short of being brain washed by martians or hypnotized by a marvel super villain choice is basically always available to you.
    Dailies was the INEVITABLE path and really the only path when you consider the reward behind them or when you consider the path of not doing them.
    Remove the gear THEN YOU"LL HAVE A REAL CHOICE. But we already know you people don't like having real choices because you never touched the fucking dailies without the gear behind them anyway. Why bother right? Were just mice chasing a piece of cheese. Yet somehow the mice shouldn't feel FORCED to go after the cheese.. You people are hilarious. You chose to be bored in cataclysm. How you like that logic? That's a choice. I certainly didn't choose to have this reward model foisted on me because a handful of you co-opted the developers into embracing regressive and painfully stupid ideas about the "good old days" of wow.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 11:23 PM.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Their is NO relation between sub decline and accessibility. Their is no proof of a relationship other than they kinda happen at the same time but not really. That argument is bunk.
    Um... I simply gave hard numbers and facts debunking a post earlier talking about the growth of wrath. There was no purpose or opinion beyond that.

    Your rant ignores the numbers and skews my opinion as you see fit. I would ask that if you intend to twist my words that you at least back it up with some facts instead of an overly passionate opinion that tends to use the caps button too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Um... I simply gave hard numbers and facts debunking a post earlier talking about the growth of wrath. There was no purpose or opinion beyond that.

    Your rant ignores the numbers and skews my opinion as you see fit. I would ask that if you intend to twist my words that you at least back it up with some facts instead of an overly passionate opinion that tends to use the caps button too much.
    My rant doesn't ignore the numbers. First of all I never claimed that you said any of that. I was just reinforcing what I had stated earlier about the non relationship between accessibility and sub loss. Second of all my rant doesn't ignore the numbers at all. I didn't even look at the numbers to be honest. I just said their is no proof of a relationship between sub decline and accessibility or lack of accessibility. It's a myth like the yeti. As for your opinion I have no idea what it is but I'm sure you'll be forthcoming with it shortly.

    Furthermore Blizzard never JUMPS to a whim. that's half the fucking problem imo. Just like hard dungeons in cataclysm they REFUSE to acknowledge it's a problem until the next expansion where they do a complete fucking 180. They'd rather write a fucking BLOG telling people how to play the game instead of pursuing methods to alleviate the frustration of their customers. Who runs a Business like this? And these people are successful? They have got to be the luckiest company in the universe. Like nothing sticks to them. They're made of teflon I swear.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 11:32 PM.

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