5.2 tuning pass

[Sesshou]

Sub doesn't need patchwerk. Sub works just fine mechanics wise on the vast majority of t14 fights (numbers were just a bit low). Sub just can't have fights where you can't use its primary abilities when you need to. They either need to fix this positional crap, at least to the degree of a feral, and/or (preferably and) buff hemo so that you aren't completely screwed.

I guess the other option would be to make sub so far ahead on the fights where mechanics don't screw it, that sub is a clear winner, but I don't see that happening as it would mean either sub is crapping on every single other dps class or assassination/combat are sub par compared to every other class which means rogues are sub par on fights where sub mechanics don't work well.

[Coldkil]

There never gonna be pure "patchwerk" fights, we just have to accept this.

I agree, but there's a big difference between "we don't want anymore dummy fights because they aren't fun" and "you cannot use a spec because a fight mechanic won't let you".

The first sentence is pretty good, the second one is a problem. And since the problem isn't about the boss fights but about the spec mechanics, i think a fix is needed.

Tbh, i don't want another spine fight just to say "well, sub is pretty much required there". It's the same as combat being good because of cleave.

[Drunkhobo]

Sub is balanced around it being the pvp spec, so they don't have to worry about cross pve/pvp balance concerns. Combat and mutilate are our defacto options for pve and will be for the foreseeable future. I understand you like the playstyle and whatnot, but they can't buff the damage on sub or make qol changes without severely affecting pvp because sub is already going to be extremely strong this season.

[Ryme]

Sub is balanced around it being the pvp spec, so they don't have to worry about cross pve/pvp balance concerns. Combat and mutilate are our defacto options for pve and will be for the foreseeable future. I understand you like the playstyle and whatnot, but they can't buff the damage on sub or make qol changes without severely affecting pvp because sub is already going to be extremely strong this season.

I appreciate that this might be true, but it doesn't qualify as an excuse - just further admission of poor design.

[D3athsting]

I appreciate that this might be true, but it doesn't qualify as an excuse - just further admission of poor design.

This^
Everyone agrees that frost is mage's pvp spec but actually is very good for pve and and is being buffed in single target and cleave come 5.2, subt is still hardly viable for both single and multitarget...

[Deleted]

love how they took the rogue spec rankings from 5.1 with the intention of making them all viable, and somehow ended up screwing them even further.

Mut: the go-to spec

Combat: good but only in special circumstances - 4-set bonus, low latency and insane button mashing required

Sub: Marketed as the big bad monster, in reality shy, underfed and iffy


I wanted... really wanted to MS combat or sub. Ah well, less gold spent on reforging I guess.


Edit: Just keeping the score, with Mut's buffs stacking multiplicatively, there should be a roughly 12% increase over 5.1

[D3athsting]

They say that sub with bis gear "might be too high" so expect a nerf too

They're really throwing buff and nerfs here and there without any clue of what to tweak...

As for combat my keyboard will be very pleased...

[Drunkhobo]

Once I get 4pc I am going to install a keystroke counter to see how many times I mash my sinister strike button in a single raid because it was already pretty high in the current tier, but with that insanely lowered gcd I may get carpal.

[Maelstrom51]

Edit: Just keeping the score, with Mut's buffs stacking multiplicatively, there should be a roughly 12% increase over 5.1

Don't count on it. The RPPM changes are a huge nerf. The Assassin's Resolve buff just barely covers the RPPM nerf (sub 1% increase over the previous changes).

[Deleted]

Don't count on it. The RPPM changes are a huge nerf. The Assassin's Resolve buff just barely covers the RPPM nerf (sub 1% increase over the previous changes).

True that. Seems a bit strange that they've buffed Mut, and left Comb and Sub to eat the RPPM nerf as it is.

[Maelstrom51]

True that. Seems a bit strange that they've buffed Mut, and left Comb and Sub to eat the RPPM nerf as it is.

Combat is being left as is because with the overpowered four set it was pretty much the best melee in the game.

Sub, I have no clue about. They were already behind and are hit much harder by the RPPM nerf.

[Mazius]

I always said rogue has 2 and half dps spec and some pro rogue keeps saying sub is viable for pve ROFL

Sub is fine in this tier with BiS gear.
Sub is NOT fine in 5.2 not because it's not viable, but because assa and combat got insane direct and indirect buffs.

I agree, but there's a big difference between "we don't want anymore dummy fights because they aren't fun" and "you cannot use a spec because a fight mechanic won't let you".

Sub may be viable as AoE spec on Tortos HC, but fight as a whole is incredibly far from "deal with adds, dps the boss".
Rogues prolly will be forced to spec into ST there (due to shield mechanic).

[Nekked]

Tooltip for AR still reads 20% increase in damage. Tooltip error or did the 10% buff never make it to live?

Also, for 2 target cleave fights do you guys prefer Assassination or Combat?

[Elmurda]

Tooltip for AR still reads 20% increase in damage. Tooltip error or did the 10% buff never make it to live?

Also, for 2 target cleave fights do you guys prefer Assassination or Combat?

5% buff and yes, the buff is live.