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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    No not really. I mean you've been backing the wrong horse in this daily debate all along and it's come to bite you in the asshole and you still won't admit it sucks but yea I'm the one who can't admit I'm wrong.

    It isn't irrational in the slightest especially when the developers insist that it's "compelling" content and the root definition of the word compelling contains the verb "to force" in it. It's hard to admit your wrong though I understand. YOu and the developers need to save some face so you simple say it "feels" that way.
    I guess there are degrees of feeling forced so we could say everything is forced or nothing is forced.
    I think it is pretty sad that you feel forced to do dailies and doing those dailies are so aweful for you that you need to make such a big deal about it. I have more respect for someones opinion when they say they feel forced when they actually have a hard decision to make.

    It's just your opinion that you think dailies are forced. I disagree because I think choosing between not doing dailies or doing dailies is not a big deal. When you can finish up your reputations in just a few weeks and you have other options I don't think there is as much force as you make it out to be.
    If Blizzard would say to you that you can only log in the game if you do dailies every day then I would agree there is too much force.

    There is also nothing wrong with forcing players to do something. Blizzard said dailies felt too forced. I don't understand why you are still discussing about this. Why do people need to keep spamming how forced and terrible dailies are while they are really just an option in the game and not a big deal. It looks more like they want things to be easier and it has nothing to do with feeling forced. It's just a more compelling argument.
    Last edited by Gilian; 2013-03-06 at 09:25 AM.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I guess there are degrees of feeling forced so we could say everything is forced or nothing is forced.
    I think it is pretty sad that you feel forced to do dailies and doing those dailies are so aweful for you that you need to make such a big deal about it. I have more respect for someones opinion when they say they feel forced when they actually have a hard decision to make.

    It's just your opinion that you think dailies are forced. I disagree because I think choosing between not doing dailies or doing dailies is not a big deal. When you can finish up your reputations in just a few weeks and you have other options I don't think there is as much force as you make it out to be.
    If Blizzard would say to you that you can only log in the game if you do dailies every day then I would agree there is too much force.

    There is also nothing wrong with forcing players to do something. Blizzard said dailies felt too forced. I don't understand why you are still discussing about this. Why do people need to keep spamming how forced and terrible dailies are while they are really just an option in the game and not a big deal. It looks more like they want things to be easier and it has nothing to do with feeling forced. It's just a more compelling argument.
    I think it's pretty sad people feel forced to pay taxes and paying those taxes is so aweful for them that they need to make a huge deal about it and protest.

    You don't think choosing dailies or not choosing dailies is a big deal but I don't think choosing not to pay taxes is a big deal either. More people should not pay their taxes. When you can not pay your taxes and it takes no time to not pay them and the the option of paying your taxes is still there I don't see why you would feel forced.

    Their is also nothing wrong with forcing ppeople to pay taxes. The government says taxes feel to forced. I don't understand why you are still discussing about this? Why do people need to keep spamming about how forced they are to pay taxes and how terrible those taxes are really when it's just an option in life and not a deal.

    Now of course the above is absolutely fucking ludicrous but then again so is what your wrote by and large. Just like choosing not to pay your taxes, the alternatives to not doing dailies are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR worse than doing the fucking dailies. If the alternatives were even remotely in the same ballpark then dailies would stop being compelling (forced). For me that wasn't the case, that's why I quit the game. Playing the game became a shitty alternative to not playing the game. Posting on forums and playing other games became a better alternative so I was COMPELLED to play other games and post on forums. As for why I'm still going on about this well you brought up how I was wrong slick. It turns out not so much.

    In ancient Rome their was a guy named Cato the censor. He was obsessed with Carthage and Hannibal as a threat to Rome. He would end every speech before the senate by saying "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" which roughly translates to "And I will add another thing. Carthage must be destroyed!" (more or less). I feel that way about dailies. It colors everything in the game. And I will add another thing. The gear shouldn't require a rep!. If you did that then the alternatives to dailies start to look alot better. All still slow as fuck mind you but alot less I have to do dailies because that's where the reliable steady source of gear is from. It's not from LFR I'll tell you that much.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-06 at 09:52 AM.

  3. #583
    This issue is so overblown it's ridiculous. Now that a new tier is out, now that the expansion's been out for a few months, the dailies "issue" shouldn't even be an issue anymore.

  4. #584
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    1. Heroic 5 man epic drops are 1% or less. Good luck grinding those.
    2. Your average player doesn't have 30k to dump on BoE epics (especially if they aren't doing dailies). They cannot craft their own because 99% of all the epic gear patterns are locked behind the rep.
    3. Sha boots and Klaxxi neck do help - but they WILL NOT get you to 470 with the rest of your gear being 463.
    4. PvE players generally don't want to put themselves through the hell of trying to grind PvP for gear.
    5. Grinding LFR MSV for the remaining pieces = 6 bags of fail PER WEEK. The drop rates from these bags is fairly abysmal as it's extremely common to go weeks without getting a single drop.

    So, yea, I guess you're right - if you want to put your character through progression hell - I guess you can skip the dailies and enjoy spending your playtime dealing with the options above.

    Are the forced? No. But they are strongly, strongly, strongly encouraged through the games current design.

    This is a 100% correct any counter argument is flawed.
    Quiting the game is an option though.

  5. #585
    I think the people saying dailies aren't mandatory but option will keep saying this untill Blizzard says otherwise!
    So what's the point discussing this whole topic, we've had a lot of topics on it already and nothing came out of it.

    Just wait untill the next xpac cause that is when Blizzard will admit that this design was a mistake.
    Then all defending Blizzard will take that statement and that will be the end of this whole mess.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    This issue is so overblown it's ridiculous. Now that a new tier is out, now that the expansion's been out for a few months, the dailies "issue" shouldn't even be an issue anymore.
    Especially now that the developers have back pedaled and effectively admitted how shitty and forced the dailies were so much so that the current dailies and rep faction thingie is all server wide and I never have to touch a single fucking daily but still get reward like it should be. I'd love to let it go but some others simple can't admit that dailies are indeed forced content. Even when the developers do.

  7. #587
    Hilarious. The entire game is a grind, each and every option. The only issue is how long the grind takes to satisfy what you are grinding for.

    If you only do dungeons, gonna take a long time to get to LFR1. If you only do LFR1 to get LFR2, long time once more.

    But when you combine the various options, it goes faster. Reward for investment.

    If you do not like grinds, you are screwed as far as the MMO space is concerned. WoW has alot of grinds (worst was dailies, I agree), but better than previous expanions, and WAY better than your options.

    And as for tabards - all they did was allow you to choose how to advance each rep, it still required just as much time.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."
    Yes I can read thank you. Really in the end I don't care what their PR speak says. I mean you can swallow that tripe to save your fucking ego because well YOU LOST the debate but that's your perogative. That's your CHOICE. The fact is that I never have to touch a SINGLE FUCKING DAILY in 5.2 and I still get access to the vendors behind it whenever us-arthas gets it's shit together and does the work for me. That's a REAL choice btw because not doing dailies I don't lose out on a single fucking progression thing.

  9. #589
    *shrug* 493 iLvl, still honored with Klaxxi Shado Pan Goldden Lotus....

    Dailies aren't mandatory. I'm saying it because I *didn't* do them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  10. #590
    Perhaps Blizzard needed to learn the difference between content that compels you to do it, vs. content that compels you to stay subscribed.

    Make things grindy/annoying enough and a line gets crossed. The player ends up saying "I'd be better off if I just stopped doing any of this" and walks away.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    It is the only path to reach level 90.
    De fuck? No, it's not.. But why wouldn't you click your mouse to equip better gear?
    Which is exactly why a lot of people don't level professions.
    Which is why many people don't enchant everything.
    Yes, it is. It's the only way to get specific abilities.

    Yeaaah, I am just going to stop this.
    You really don't get the point.
    For people the goal of dailies is to get better gear.
    We have different paths to get better gear.
    So if people dislike dailies, they can take another path.

    If you think that "using mounts isn't mandatory" has anything to do with that, then.. let's just drop it before I get infracted >.>

    WOOOOOSH, that's the sound of the point going over your head.



    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."
    I really think you didn't get the point of my post........
    Otherwise you wouldn't have responded in the way you did.

  12. #592
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Perhaps Blizzard needed to learn the difference between content that compels you to do it, vs. content that compels you to stay subscribed.

    Make things grindy/annoying enough and a line gets crossed. The player ends up saying "I'd be better off if I just stopped doing any of this" and walks away.
    This one speaks with much wisdom. While I can understand the "time sink" model from a business perspective, from the end of the consumer it feels as though I am paying the same for less enjoyable content.

    I could buy a whole extra pizza a month with that money!....Stupid sales tax. -.-
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Perhaps Blizzard needed to learn the difference between content that compels you to do it, vs. content that compels you to stay subscribed.

    Make things grindy/annoying enough and a line gets crossed. The player ends up saying "I'd be better off if I just stopped doing any of this" and walks away.
    I've been saying it since day 1. Their is a difference (although a small one) between bored because you've exhausted the content you liked to do and get rewarded for and being bored because you don't like the content offered to you and it isn't rewarding enough. In the first case (cataclysm) it took me several months to get bored and I was subbed for at least 5 or 6 consecutive months and overall subbed to like 80% of that expansions life cycle. In mists I've subbed for 2 months of this expansion and not consecutively. In the former case I had a blast. In the latter case I was bored as hell throughout the entire fucking thing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 09:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes, luckily we do things like that now.
    Because in 5.0 it was IMPOSSIBLE to gear your character without doing dailies :')

    But hey, calm down on the swearing.. We don't want you to get a stroke or anything
    Again with the histrionics. I never said it was impossible. Just like it's not impossible to not pay your taxes. It's very easy to not do dailies, and it's very easy to not pay taxes. The consequences are shitty though. In the case of taxes the alternative to paying them is jail and an audit and all kinds of bullshit. In the case of dailies the alternatives also likewise suck and suck by design. Otherwise dailies would cease to be "compelling".

    In the end playing the game became the shitty alternative to not playing the game. So I was "compelled" to stop playing.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-06 at 09:48 PM.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You're shitting me right? Epics on the AH are 3k tops.
    The price depends the sever on mine the most cheap epic is a cloth item for 8k and it has been that way since the start.

    but I love how you think your AH price's are the price's on every server.

    Like he said even blizzard has admitted to dailys feeling forced therefor anything you say dose not matter. Blizzard admits there is a problem but feel free to blindly disagree with the makers of the game and the huge amount of the player base saying different then you.


    Blizzard has admitted dailys felt mandatory case closed nothing else said matters.

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  15. #595
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    On my main, I do everything I can - dailies, LFR, rep grinding (stopped raiding proper 'cos it's no fun anymore).

    Finally have a couple of alts to 90, can I arsed doing dailies on them?

    Of course fucking not - my tank alt has it easy and is already in TOES LFR, but tanks have tiny queues so there you go.

    It just feels that Blizzard is milking every single last second they can out of people, and then this meatshield of the community is like a rottweiler slobbering and barking at anyone who dares to question Blizzard.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But what are the consequences of not doing dailies?
    I have gone weeks without drops.
    I have made 20 kills and used 5 coins on the boss that dropped my weapon.
    I've had items drop that I already own around 8 times.

    And still I am only 6 iLVL lower than a friend who did all the dailies and was full-epic a month ago.
    So no, I have to disagree that the "consequences are shitty".

    You'll learn that too as soon as people stop with this "if not the best, than it's shitty"-attitude.
    Going slow is a consequence.
    Getting less reward out of the game is a consequence.
    Being subject to atrocious RNG as your source of reward is a consequence.
    One less avenue to spend your valor is a consequence
    No charms is a consequence.

    That's a short list of the shitty consequences for not doing dailies. It took me 30 seconds to figure that out. I;m sure if I thought about it I could come up with more. The key ones are going slow sucks and being subject to shitty rng. If dungeons or some other form of content circumvented those two consequences than dailies wouldn't feel forced and as a corollary they'd stop being "compelling" because in reality the two terms are interchangeable.

  17. #597
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    The dinosaur island is a perfect example - the grind required for a few mounts and pets is nuts, yeah you do not have to do them but many will spend hours and days blindly harvesting dinosaur bones... and you scoff at the casuals!

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Faustus View Post
    The dinosaur island is a perfect example - the grind required for a few mounts and pets is nuts, yeah you do not have to do them but many will spend hours and days blindly harvesting dinosaur bones... and you scoff at the casuals!
    I'm okay with pets and mounts for that kind of thing. Go nuts. I'm all for it. The alternatives to not doing the dinosaur island is to not get the mounts and pets. Whoopdie doo. Of course you'll see less people doing it because without gear it isn't forced or compelling (interchangable) because the alternative to getting mounts and pets is not getting mounts and pets but that's fine.

  19. #599
    Deleted
    I've stopped doing dailies a long time ago. When I need money I just buy it from some website, since there is no way to obtain it ingame that doesn't involve forcing myself to spend a lot of time in the parts of the game that I despise.

    As a result I play wow as nothing more than a casual game where I sometimes launch it, play some BGs or go grief some of the mindless zombies who dutifully grind the daily quests, and I log off as soon as it gets boring.
    Basically I completely avoid all of the increasingly transparent attempts to leverage the sunk cost fallacy to make me feel like I'm wasting my past time investment in the game if I don't keep playing every day and even every week.

    As a result I don't play wow as much as most people, but I enjoy all of the time I spend playing it.

  20. #600
    Deleted
    Daylies and the factions reps unlocked by doing daylies + coins where simply a good way to have an alternative path to get a more powerfull character.
    I think its ok to grind for vanity items like pets and mounts. But having to grind to increase the power of your chracter isn't very fun. Then it becomes more a question of time you are willing to waste opposite having the skill and the team to get items that can make your character more powerful.
    So in the end you would have to sit go raiding and do lfr and do daylies if you wanted to have the best chances to increases the power of your character. That ends up being a lot of time wasted.

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