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  1. #21
    New mechanics, when first introduced can be easy and brutal because its something "new" however you cannot constantly have entirely new ideas every fight. Ultraxion, very basic just press the button, once people learnt that, next tier they added in more mechanics to go with it.

    I agree there is a line where too much is going on and we're hitting that now but that's when they add in new mechanics to complicate it, initially it will be basic but then they combine it with other mechanics to go with.

    Some mechanics this tier aren't fun and I think blizzard is learning what is/isn't - Leishi disappearing was new but just became annoying as shit, Blade lord mechanics weren't fun especially P2. So Blizzard learns and moves forward, you can't expect every single fight to be fantastic with new mechanics because quite frankly a lot of mechanics over 15 tiers have already been done
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    This logic makes absolutely no sense.

    P.S. If BT and Sunwell were released today they'd be considered faceroll content and the forums would be wall to wall bitching about how easy WoW has become.
    What.

    I don't think you understand how difficult sunwell was and why it was difficult. It had new mechanics, but the mechanics also required close to perfect execution otherwise you died. The only reason it could possibly be considered easy if it were released now is that Blizzard would release it in the 30% nerfed state it is currently in instead of how it was. Some of the things that made it difficult have been solved through class changes, but the sheer damage/healing, reaction time, and attention to detail you needed to do the fights would still make it close to impossible for most the WoW population.

  3. #23
    Dreadlord Synbaby's Avatar
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    I've only killed the first 3 bosses in the new raid, but they are fairly similar for the most part. I'm hoping it gets a little better the further in I go.

    Council and Horridon just feel kind of thrown together. Like they had a list of like 20 mechanics, and had to choose 6-7 mechanics for each fight. The boss fights are just very chaotic. We did a couple pulls on Tortos, and they seems a bit more interesting.
    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stranger

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Heigan was fun for you? I want what you're smoking because that's fucking crazy.
    So we can all be stupid together? Never understood the "I want what youre smoking" statement.

  5. #25
    because people now in top guilds are just miles better than they were 7-8 years ago, if you put naxx level difficulty into raids now, bosses will be 1 shot it would have less challenge than LFR that also makes it not fun.

    i mean heigan just moving every now n then with the boss....thats fun? as a melee you just hug his ass until he dies except when he's on the platform you do NOTHING instead.

    everyone see's things differently but from my pov i wouldn't want a naxx style boss in mop cause i'd be playing LFR focus watching tv not caring and still win = no challenge no fun, got sha of fear 25 hc 1 hour before patch came............that feeling is just fucking epic all the bosses in naxx combined aren't as good i can faceroll those tactics anyday even if u slap me in lvl 60 gear in 60 naxx i won't fail cause the tacts are easy just characters had bad spells/bad itemised gear, still not as fun as today.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    because people now in top guilds are just miles better than they were 7-8 years ago, if you put naxx level difficulty into raids now, bosses will be 1 shot it would have less challenge than LFR that also makes it not fun.

    i mean heigan just moving every now n then with the boss....thats fun? as a melee you just hug his ass until he dies except when he's on the platform you do NOTHING instead.

    everyone see's things differently but from my pov i wouldn't want a naxx style boss in mop cause i'd be playing LFR focus watching tv not caring and still win = no challenge no fun, got sha of fear 25 hc 1 hour before patch came............that feeling is just fucking epic all the bosses in naxx combined aren't as good i can faceroll those tactics anyday even if u slap me in lvl 60 gear in 60 naxx i won't fail cause the tacts are easy just characters had bad spells/bad itemised gear, still not as fun as today.


    thats not true at all... its all relative to the tuning/damage.

    if you cant admit they have 10 or so mechanics written on a piece of paper and pull 6-8 out of a hat and that makes the encounter then you have a problem with perception.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 12:59 AM ----------

    kiting zombies so a giant abominable dog doesnt chomp them for health sounds a lot more fun than anything this tier has to offer.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    i remember dpsing heigan with just a tank and a healer alive with everyone cheering on the last 3-4 people remaining.. that was a LOT more fun than... ADDS... void zones... ADDS... dispel... void zone... aoe damage... ADDS.. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    So you like fights where most of your raid can screw up and die to the 1 important mechanic on the fight, but don't like fights that have multiple mechanics that you have to try and avoid/master. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way, but that's why LFR was made.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    So we can all be stupid together? Never understood the "I want what youre smoking" statement.
    Hey, if you're that far removed from reality, who knows what else you might see.

  9. #29
    I think Horridon and Council are complete clusterfucks, yes. I think they both suffer from the same problem-- trying to integrate multiple troll tribes into the fights resulting in a massive array of distracting animations and mechanics without really adding to the intended theme because everything is happening too fast or too much or being masked by too many other things to really appreciate the theme.

    However, on the whole, I've enjoyed the majority of the fights in Mists, pretty much on par with every other raid. You like some, you hate some. I loathed Hodir, for example, and heroic Blood Princes, and freaking Heigan. Know what's not fun? Being one of those last people alive getting "cheered on" because the rest of the raid can't do their damn job, and having to just dpsdpsdpsdps and move the same rotation, the same pattern over and over and over and over for like 45 minutes because it's just you and a mage alive as dps.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    boring is subjective. to me this garbage is boring.

    throwing in 8-10 random mechanics on every fight consisting of some kind of void zone/add wave/dispel is definitely lazy.

    look at black temple and sunwell... each fight had what... 2-3 mechanics? maybe 4? and still arguably the best raid tier. quality > quantity
    You don't know what you're talking about. SWP bosses had more than 4 mechanics. Even BT bosses had a similar amount of mechanics to current content. All three end bosses in T14 were about as complex as Archimonde, and far less complex than anything else past Gruul.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post

    kiting zombies so a giant abominable dog doesnt chomp them for health sounds a lot more fun than anything this tier has to offer.
    100% disagreed.

  12. #32
    I don't know why but it seems every post you have made arguing your point is simply rude and constantly insulting any/all work Blizzard has done with Mists raids.

    Due to that reason, I don't think any argument I could possibly make would convince you otherwise.

    No point then. But, after seeing Throne of Thunder, I can easily say you're wrong.

    That's simply my opinion, though.
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  13. #33
    "running out of ideas" and all these ridiculous claims are just that. Ridiculous.

    I for one enjoy the complexity and dont lose myself in the nostalgia of the past.

    kiting zombies so a giant abominable dog doesnt chomp them for health sounds a lot more fun than anything this tier has to offer.
    No it isnt. you're asspulling some seriously self serving fallatic logic here. at best its an opinion that has no general application except to you.

    if you cant admit they have 10 or so mechanics written on a piece of paper and pull 6-8 out of a hat and that makes the encounter then you have a problem with perception.
    another ass pull. and you're insulting the work they put into every boss. they've, in the past, revealed the amount of work they put into a boss. They dont just PULL some shit out of a hat They focus on each boss and consider theme, movement, abilities, capacity, how different classes will figure into it, how different roles will figure into it. You cant follow the "out of a hat" system and still end up with it being applicable to all the classes and roles and what have you. Each boss is especially designed to make use of every class (on a variable scale, as per the nature of certain classes will trump over other classes in a certain situation due to their design but only in that fight).

    The bosses are complex and fun. a puzzle to open and figure out. Take your game burn out and rose-tinted nostalgia somewhere else.

    plus that bit where you state every boss has a "void zone/add wave/dispel" is bull too. Almost all the bosses in the raids you stated are like this too. Oh some had unique mechanics too? So do the current raids! 1st boss in terrace had a trio of bosses who gained powers in different ways according to how you killed them. Lei Shin had you hunt for her while she stealthed. Four Kings in MoV was an amazing fight which got tougher and tougher with each king bringing in their unique abilities even after dieing. Elegon was amazing in this aspect.

    The first boss of ToT i found fun for its complexity.

    You had the 4 buff pools that turned into void zones (tank has to do some basic positioning to get the pools in the order the raid wants) through a massive aoe phase.

    You had the orbs targeting one player that hurt those it touches as it moves and exploding, leaving a lightning void zone, when it eventually reached the person. Massive damage if it goes off in the pool, massive damage if it hits a previous orbs void zone. so its not just a simple curse and drop void zone like the flames in the 2nd boss of MoV, you have to be careful with the orb chasing you and where you let it hit you. This gets harder as the room fills up.

    this ontop of the aoe/tank debuff mechanic to keep healers on their toes.

    My guild had fun. it was a neat puzzle to open and it wasnt a dps test like one to many bosses in 5.0 seemed to be (GAH GARALOOON WE DOWNED YOU! PRE PATCH WE DOWNED YOU. IT TOOK EFFORT AND PAIN BUT NOW YOU ARE NOTHING GARALON...cough anyway).

    but seriously. in the end its just that blizz CANNOT follow the same raid style, mechanics and raid design as past raids. it has to be different each time. those raids are not coming back people. The current deisgn and style is as it is and its great and fun and different from the past styles (or is it somehow going to be not different after you argued its different?)
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2013-03-08 at 06:37 AM.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    thats not true at all... its all relative to the tuning/damage.

    if you cant admit they have 10 or so mechanics written on a piece of paper and pull 6-8 out of a hat and that makes the encounter then you have a problem with perception.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 12:59 AM ----------

    kiting zombies so a giant abominable dog doesnt chomp them for health sounds a lot more fun than anything this tier has to offer.
    I think you have a perception problem...maybe a vocabulary problem too at the understanding of the word 'perception'.
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  15. #35
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    if the raids continue the way they are now, and LFR continues... i guarantee the fanboys will be the only ones left dodging a screen of super complex orbs and void zones and absurdly over complex mechanics for no reason.

    mists is a horrible expansion, bad for the game, and the raids are designed with the wrong players in mind.

    why are 25 mans dying? people dont feel like learning 10 ridiculous mechanics for 12 NEW bosses... theyd rather have fun in LFR and get the SAME gear for almost no effort...

    or blizz can remove LFR and start catering fights with FUN to the general player base in mind, and save those absurd mechanics for the heroics/hard modes

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

    just seems super lazy to me
    Did you start raiding in wrath, because you must be remembering a different Heigan then I remember.

    I remember a Heigan where you had to watch:
    - Dancing (which was like 2 mechanics in and of itself, what with the way the dance pattern could occasionally alternate)
    - Having to make sure you didnt get too close to the boss because of the AoE debuff for casters that slowed casting speed
    - Having to watch dispells / diseases
    - Having to deal with being randomly teleported into the Eye-Stalk room and makeing sure you didnt die before you could get out.

    All of which where the "fun" depended almost completely on exactly how good your latency was, because if your latency was bad, you were pretty much guaranteed to die to the dance.

  17. #37
    You're jaded. Go find a new game for a while.

  18. #38
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    I like the complexity, it is fun, and we're in no way a top guild or anywhere close, so I'm not the elitist kind. I just enjoy fights that challenge you, specially in knowing what to do and when to do it. First ToT boss was fun but disappointing, since we killed him in our second try, without any of us ever having done any of the raid in the PTR.

    Horridon was fun too, though I'm enjoying Council more.

    From the last tier, of what I saw (9/16 hc), it was cool. Normal sha of fear was boring as fuck, though I guess the heroic mechanic does give it flavor. I really liked WoE (i'm a tank), mastering the dance and competing with the other tank for flawless dancing. Though, I have to say, HoF had interesting mechanics, yet they all lost their flavor quickly and hastily became frustrating and tiring... Blade Lord HC without a Disc priest (10m)? Felt more like RNG than anything else. Garalon was a frustrating fight from the second to the last pull. Amber Shaper was just fucking annoying as hell, specially if you decided to bring your new shiny trials for it (was good to pick which trials were decent, though). Empress was actually good. TES, apart from the Sha, was good all throughout.

    And now I ranted a lot, damn it.

  19. #39
    It shocks me that there's so much support for this expansion when considering everything, it's quite subpar.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    if the raids continue the way they are now, and LFR continues... i guarantee the fanboys will be the only ones left dodging a screen of super complex orbs and void zones and absurdly over complex mechanics for no reason.

    mists is a horrible expansion, bad for the game, and the raids are designed with the wrong players in mind.

    why are 25 mans dying? people dont feel like learning 10 ridiculous mechanics for 12 NEW bosses... theyd rather have fun in LFR and get the SAME gear for almost no effort...

    or blizz can remove LFR and start catering fights with FUN to the general player base in mind, and save those absurd mechanics for the heroics/hard modes
    I think you need to find a new game to play as all your posts, OP included are all full of hate if you think that the new raids are not fun to do then there is something wrong and that something wrong is that you don't like playing it anymore.. Go find a new game and maybe you won't make these tiresome silly threads.

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