WW 5.2 damage loss

[Requital]

i do apologize for that post being a bit offensive however, i do plan on keeping it as is.

@refquital even if that is the case which isnt what i saw but nonetheless can be true as a class our scaling will be insanely tuned around 4piece, Rune of Reorgination and high secondary stats. would this not lead 2 us performing much better on the heroic mode push? and as long as you hold your weight in NM's you can get to that point of getting our essential gear.

i feel were just in a bring the player not the class situation right now

I don't disagree that tuning would need to happen eventually, The issue is you don't overnerf a class during early progression you balance it during later progression. If you nerf too early too fast you devalue the class on my Ret I can easily out dps my Monk before patch it was the other way around. I think they over did it and too early.

[Deleted]

all I can see is that my rising sun kicks went from 250k to 170k, and my dps went from 110k to 80k. Not fun. I'm doing the same damage with tigereye brew up as I was doing without earlier.

[Tinykong]

According to GC on twitter, we're supposed to be using level 30 talents as dps filler. Going to give it a shot when I get home, I guess I can see it working out to use one of them on cooldown to help with lower haste levels to stack mastery. Between 1 gcd for chi-wave, FoF and EB, should be able to use a lot less haste and stack more mastery. Who knows...WW is very odd, there isn't a set of stat weights that work for everyone, and we shouldn't have to run a sim program every time we get a piece of gear to figure out our stat weights.

[Bonelazy]

After lurking the forums since 5.2, I wanted to chime in with my own observations and results.

Firstly, here is my armory, and after testing several different reforge methods I have found the optimal way for myself. With 6,200~ haste and rest of the points in Mastery > Crit, I have achieved the best results.

Yesterday we killed Megaera-25 in 2 tries (almost one-shotted!). The first try I was the 3rd best DPS in the raid with 107k DPS and the first two spots were Balance Druid and Shadow Priest which I'm certain multi-dotted to some extent (to increase their single target DPS with the procs). The 2nd try, which was the kill, I was in 5th spot with 109k DPS, although the 3rd and 4th spots had only around 300-500k more damage than me.

When I first saw the hotfix yesterday, I was angry just like most of you. However, after 2 days of trial and error, I have come to realization that the new Tigerseye Brew is INSANELY GOOD and seperates the good Windwalkers from the decent. Being able to pool 20 stacks a bigger buff than any other we got in 5.2. If you are using Tigerseye Brew just as you get 10 stacks, you are doing wrong and will have lower dps. I almost exclusively use my TB when I have trinket procs, during a Bloodlust, or when the boss has a special mechanic (such as Tortos having the 25% damage amplifying debuff on him). This itself makes or breaks the class. In short, if you mindlessly use your buff, you won't have good DPS at all.

Other than this, there is this topic of "Storm, Earth, and Fire". I'm sure many of you realized Skada (not sure about Recount, but WoL is correct) saves the damage of our spirits seperately, hence the DPS loss. Apart from this, is it a strong damage-cleave? No, it's not. But it has insane utility which none of the other melee cleave classes have. This spell has a huge 40 yard range, which allows us to act like a ranged multi-dotter. Imagine a fight where target change needs to be made every once in a while, and that target is far away. While other melee classes have to target change, losing DPS in the process, we can simply send a spirit over while we keep nuking the boss (preferably with a mouseover macro). This alone makes up for the lower damage increase. Other melee's can't cleave and has to target change, we don't. In short, SEF isn't your usual cleave, it's an amazing ranged utility multi-dot mechanic.

I'm hoping my observations make sense and some people will benefit from it (and hopefully I didn't forget something).

[Vasya111]

After lurking the forums since 5.2, I wanted to chime in with my own observations and results.

Firstly, here is my armory, and after testing several different reforge methods I have found the optimal way for myself. With 6,200~ haste and rest of the points in Mastery > Crit, I have achieved the best results.

Yesterday we killed Megaera-25 in 2 tries (almost one-shotted!). The first try I was the 3rd best DPS in the raid with 107k DPS and the first two spots were Balance Druid and Shadow Priest which I'm certain multi-dotted to some extent (to increase their single target DPS with the procs). The 2nd try, which was the kill, I was in 5th spot with 109k DPS, although the 3rd and 4th spots had only around 300-500k more damage than me.

When I first saw the hotfix yesterday, I was angry just like most of you. However, after 2 days of trial and error, I have come to realization that the new Tigerseye Brew is INSANELY GOOD and seperates the good Windwalkers from the decent. Being able to pool 20 stacks a bigger buff than any other we got in 5.2. If you are using Tigerseye Brew just as you get 10 stacks, you are doing wrong and will have lower dps. I almost exclusively use my TB when I have trinket procs, during a Bloodlust, or when the boss has a special mechanic (such as Tortos having the 25% damage amplifying debuff on him). This itself makes or breaks the class. In short, if you mindlessly use your buff, you won't have good DPS at all.

Other than this, there is this topic of "Storm, Earth, and Fire". I'm sure many of you realized Skada (not sure about Recount, but WoL is correct) saves the damage of our spirits seperately, hence the DPS loss. Apart from this, is it a strong damage-cleave? No, it's not. But it has insane utility which none of the other melee cleave classes have. This spell has a huge 40 yard range, which allows us to act like a ranged multi-dotter. Imagine a fight where target change needs to be made every once in a while, and that target is far away. While other melee classes have to target change, losing DPS in the process, we can simply send a spirit over while we keep nuking the boss (preferably with a mouseover macro). This alone makes up for the lower damage increase. Other melee's can't cleave and has to target change, we don't. In short, SEF isn't your usual cleave, it's an amazing ranged utility multi-dot mechanic.

Well sad. Lets just hope other classes, that will switch their full damage to new targets will carry you, who switched only 60%.

[Serendepityz]

After lurking the forums since 5.2, I wanted to chime in with my own observations and results.

Firstly, here is my armory, and after testing several different reforge methods I have found the optimal way for myself. With 6,200~ haste and rest of the points in Mastery > Crit, I have achieved the best results.

Yesterday we killed Megaera-25 in 2 tries (almost one-shotted!). The first try I was the 3rd best DPS in the raid with 107k DPS and the first two spots were Balance Druid and Shadow Priest which I'm certain multi-dotted to some extent (to increase their single target DPS with the procs). The 2nd try, which was the kill, I was in 5th spot with 109k DPS, although the 3rd and 4th spots had only around 300-500k more damage than me.

When I first saw the hotfix yesterday, I was angry just like most of you. However, after 2 days of trial and error, I have come to realization that the new Tigerseye Brew is INSANELY GOOD and seperates the good Windwalkers from the decent. Being able to pool 20 stacks a bigger buff than any other we got in 5.2. If you are using Tigerseye Brew just as you get 10 stacks, you are doing wrong and will have lower dps. I almost exclusively use my TB when I have trinket procs, during a Bloodlust, or when the boss has a special mechanic (such as Tortos having the 25% damage amplifying debuff on him). This itself makes or breaks the class. In short, if you mindlessly use your buff, you won't have good DPS at all.

Other than this, there is this topic of "Storm, Earth, and Fire". I'm sure many of you realized Skada (not sure about Recount, but WoL is correct) saves the damage of our spirits seperately, hence the DPS loss. Apart from this, is it a strong damage-cleave? No, it's not. But it has insane utility which none of the other melee cleave classes have. This spell has a huge 40 yard range, which allows us to act like a ranged multi-dotter. Imagine a fight where target change needs to be made every once in a while, and that target is far away. While other melee classes have to target change, losing DPS in the process, we can simply send a spirit over while we keep nuking the boss (preferably with a mouseover macro). This alone makes up for the lower damage increase. Other melee's can't cleave and has to target change, we don't. In short, SEF isn't your usual cleave, it's an amazing ranged utility multi-dot mechanic.

I'm hoping my observations make sense and some people will benefit from it (and hopefully I didn't forget something).

for the most part i agree with you the only diffrences between us are currently your still agi stacking while i went to gemming secondary, one thing you are forgetting to count is your playing troll. which 7 (i think) out of 12 of the bosses your doing a extra 5% dmg you being troll and other member's of ur raid could be making a huge diffrence on some fights.

but ive also noticed were still not THAT far behind the pack if we play perfect with only using TeB inside mechanics dps increases/trinket procs/Bloodlust

[kamuimac]

i do apologize for that post being a bit offensive however, i do plan on keeping it as is.

@refquital even if that is the case which isnt what i saw but nonetheless can be true as a class our scaling will be insanely tuned around 4piece, Rune of Reorgination and high secondary stats. would this not lead 2 us performing much better on the heroic mode push? and as long as you hold your weight in NM's you can get to that point of getting our essential gear.

i feel were just in a bring the player not the class situation right now

So u mean that for me as a quite a causal player my dps will be back to pre nerf when ill get this stuff in half a year - yay me -_-

[Tinykong]

Sadly, it looks like the changes have made WW go from an under-represented class that can be played great by skilled players, and so-so by unskilled players, to a probably even more under-represented class that was buffed for skilled players, and nerfed horribly for unskilled players.

So much for changing the class to make it more inviting to new comers.

[Bonelazy]

for the most part i agree with you the only diffrences between us are currently your still agi stacking while i went to gemming secondary, one thing you are forgetting to count is your playing troll. which 7 (i think) out of 12 of the bosses your doing a extra 5% dmg you being troll and other member's of ur raid could be making a huge diffrence on some fights.

but ive also noticed were still not THAT far behind the pack if we play perfect with only using TeB inside mechanics dps increases/trinket procs/Bloodlust

Not that many bosses are beasts to be honest. Only Horridon, Tortos and Ji-kun as far as I'm aware. Apart from that, I'm still inbetween gemming mastery or agility, but I went for agility as it's the safest stat to go with in my opinion.

[Vasya111]

Sadly, it looks like the changes have made WW go from an under-represented class that can be played great by skilled players, and so-so by unskilled players, to a probably even more under-represented class that was buffed for skilled players, and nerfed horribly for unskilled players.

Even if we assume that only a skilled player can use Tigerseye Brew together with dmg increasing mechanics or trinket procs, they still did not "buffed" it for skilled players, they just nerfed it less for skilled players than for unskilled.

[derpx]

In pvp you need to get 10 stacks in order to really do damage, giving that you can't be at your target 100% of the time this means it takes alot more time to build 10 stacks. since they nerfed the stance they should add a spell with 1 min to 2 mins CD that grants you 10 stacks. WW doesn't have Offensive CDs on demand it's all build up and this kind of things usually don't work in PVP. The low damage of monks come from the fact that they don't have dots, so when ever someone manage to get away it's like doing 0 damage. Also, don't forget every class got CCs and as I'm trying the monk in PVP Nimble Brew doesn't work for many CCs but still really good defensive ability.

For PVE, This is similar to bosses with mechanics that has movements (i.e every boss these days got this) you can't be at the boss 100% of the time so whenever there's a sec without being on boss it's a major loss. I haven't raid seriously with my monk so I might be wrong but I've raid LFR to know enough that autoattack of the monk has a really high share of the damage of the monk.

Given that the monk will be 100% of the time on the target, the damage is really good but this is nearly impossible and I believe that's why people complaining.

[Moozhe]

Not that many bosses are beasts to be honest. Only Horridon, Tortos and Ji-kun as far as I'm aware. Apart from that, I'm still inbetween gemming mastery or agility, but I went for agility as it's the safest stat to go with in my opinion.

Horridon, Megaera, Tortos, Ji'Kun, and Iron Qon (in the first 3 phases). 5 of 13 are beasts.

[Tinykong]

Even if we assume that only a skilled player can use Tigerseye Brew together with dmg increasing mechanics or trinket procs, they still did not "buffed" it for skilled players, they just nerfed it less for skilled players than for unskilled.

Considering that TB went from a flat 20% dmg increase (iirc) to over 50-60% when stacking mastery, it's extremely powerful when timed correctly. Most players aren't tracking cooldown timers and will probably just click the button when it lights up. Overall it's a fail if you read the class recaps, they wanted WW to be less burst anemic, and they made it worse. Without having 10 stacks on the pull, your initial DPS is in the toilet.

Someone on the official forums had a great suggestion: 1 stack every 6 seconds out of combat, capped at 10. Won't happen, though.

[Biggety]

Considering that TB went from a flat 20% dmg increase (iirc) to over 50-60% when stacking mastery, it's extremely powerful when timed correctly. Most players aren't tracking cooldown timers and will probably just click the button when it lights up. Overall it's a fail if you read the class recaps, they wanted WW to be less burst anemic, and they made it worse. Without having 10 stacks on the pull, your initial DPS is in the toilet.

Someone on the official forums had a great suggestion: 1 stack every 6 seconds out of combat, capped at 10. Won't happen, though.

Not to mention that any boss pull wipes the stacks. You can pre-pot and use brew, which means that you get between 12 and 7 seconds of buffed damage to start a fight, depending on how far behind the tank you need to be for the pull. That's still a crappy mechanic when there's an initial bloodlust (though, tbh, there doesn't seem to be many of those this tier).

[Moozhe]

Not to mention that any boss pull wipes the stacks. You can pre-pot and use brew, which means that you get between 12 and 7 seconds of buffed damage to start a fight, depending on how far behind the tank you need to be for the pull. That's still a crappy mechanic when there's an initial bloodlust (though, tbh, there doesn't seem to be many of those this tier).

That doesn't work anymore. The buff is removed in addition to the stacks when a boss is engaged.

[Fichek]

That doesn't work anymore. The buff is removed in addition to the stacks when a boss is engaged.

Now why would they do something like that. I don't understand. Every fight has 2 burst phases, start and lust. Every possible thing procs at start so it's a given that you would use your cooldowns at that time to maximize their potential. So instead of 2 burst phases we only have one, lust. We get especially fukd in fights that start with lust.

[Requital]

After lurking the forums since 5.2, I wanted to chime in with my own observations and results.

Firstly, here is my armory, and after testing several different reforge methods I have found the optimal way for myself. With 6,200~ haste and rest of the points in Mastery > Crit, I have achieved the best results.

Yesterday we killed Megaera-25 in 2 tries (almost one-shotted!). The first try I was the 3rd best DPS in the raid with 107k DPS and the first two spots were Balance Druid and Shadow Priest which I'm certain multi-dotted to some extent (to increase their single target DPS with the procs). The 2nd try, which was the kill, I was in 5th spot with 109k DPS, although the 3rd and 4th spots had only around 300-500k more damage than me.

When I first saw the hotfix yesterday, I was angry just like most of you. However, after 2 days of trial and error, I have come to realization that the new Tigerseye Brew is INSANELY GOOD and seperates the good Windwalkers from the decent. Being able to pool 20 stacks a bigger buff than any other we got in 5.2. If you are using Tigerseye Brew just as you get 10 stacks, you are doing wrong and will have lower dps. I almost exclusively use my TB when I have trinket procs, during a Bloodlust, or when the boss has a special mechanic (such as Tortos having the 25% damage amplifying debuff on him). This itself makes or breaks the class. In short, if you mindlessly use your buff, you won't have good DPS at all.

Other than this, there is this topic of "Storm, Earth, and Fire". I'm sure many of you realized Skada (not sure about Recount, but WoL is correct) saves the damage of our spirits seperately, hence the DPS loss. Apart from this, is it a strong damage-cleave? No, it's not. But it has insane utility which none of the other melee cleave classes have. This spell has a huge 40 yard range, which allows us to act like a ranged multi-dotter. Imagine a fight where target change needs to be made every once in a while, and that target is far away. While other melee classes have to target change, losing DPS in the process, we can simply send a spirit over while we keep nuking the boss (preferably with a mouseover macro). This alone makes up for the lower damage increase. Other melee's can't cleave and has to target change, we don't. In short, SEF isn't your usual cleave, it's an amazing ranged utility multi-dot mechanic.

I'm hoping my observations make sense and some people will benefit from it (and hopefully I didn't forget something).

Yes and No and here is a prime example why.

You did 107k DPS w/ Ilevel 505-08? guessing based on your Armory not sure when you changed trinkets etc. I'm not 100% sure what ilevel I was when we killed that but on my Ret I did 114K DPS our overall RDPS was 2104701.0. On my Monk I did 115K DPS overall RDPS was 1815845.3

The difference would be greater if my Ret was using Heroic Weapons like my Monk was. The nerf was overdone yes it does require optimal TeB use but even under optimal TeB use we are behind 5.1 by a significant margin right now.

On the pull we are the gutter class it takes a good amount of time to catch up which in the end we can catch up but the amount of nerfs supersede the amount of buffs and they need to re-examine their data.

[Alviarin]

Am I the only one noticing a drop in dps since yesterday ? (Megaera 25 trys)
I'm usually like in the top 5, even after the 10% nerf I was really in a good spot stilll, but tonight on this fight I'm fighting not to be last...

[Pandorox]

After lurking the forums since 5.2, I wanted to chime in with my own observations and results.

Firstly, here is my armory, and after testing several different reforge methods I have found the optimal way for myself. With 6,200~ haste and rest of the points in Mastery > Crit, I have achieved the best results.

Yesterday we killed Megaera-25 in 2 tries (almost one-shotted!). The first try I was the 3rd best DPS in the raid with 107k DPS and the first two spots were Balance Druid and Shadow Priest which I'm certain multi-dotted to some extent (to increase their single target DPS with the procs). The 2nd try, which was the kill, I was in 5th spot with 109k DPS, although the 3rd and 4th spots had only around 300-500k more damage than me.

When I first saw the hotfix yesterday, I was angry just like most of you. However, after 2 days of trial and error, I have come to realization that the new Tigerseye Brew is INSANELY GOOD and seperates the good Windwalkers from the decent. Being able to pool 20 stacks a bigger buff than any other we got in 5.2. If you are using Tigerseye Brew just as you get 10 stacks, you are doing wrong and will have lower dps. I almost exclusively use my TB when I have trinket procs, during a Bloodlust, or when the boss has a special mechanic (such as Tortos having the 25% damage amplifying debuff on him). This itself makes or breaks the class. In short, if you mindlessly use your buff, you won't have good DPS at all.

Other than this, there is this topic of "Storm, Earth, and Fire". I'm sure many of you realized Skada (not sure about Recount, but WoL is correct) saves the damage of our spirits seperately, hence the DPS loss. Apart from this, is it a strong damage-cleave? No, it's not. But it has insane utility which none of the other melee cleave classes have. This spell has a huge 40 yard range, which allows us to act like a ranged multi-dotter. Imagine a fight where target change needs to be made every once in a while, and that target is far away. While other melee classes have to target change, losing DPS in the process, we can simply send a spirit over while we keep nuking the boss (preferably with a mouseover macro). This alone makes up for the lower damage increase. Other melee's can't cleave and has to target change, we don't. In short, SEF isn't your usual cleave, it's an amazing ranged utility multi-dot mechanic.

I'm hoping my observations make sense and some people will benefit from it (and hopefully I didn't forget something).

Been lurking a bit here & there myself. But just wanted to say that I got a temp fix for my Skada. It merges my spirits & it showed a dps increase while using them. Upward of 10k dps.

If you want to try to fix it & are comfortable changing coding then go to http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/skada
look at Moozhe's comment

[Moozhe]

Been lurking a bit here & there myself. But just wanted to say that I got a temp fix for my Skada. It merges my spirits & it showed a dps increase while using them. Upward of 10k dps.

If you want to try to fix it & are comfortable changing coding then go to http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/skada
look at Moozhe's comment

The latest version of Skada was actually fixed for Storm, Earth, and Fire. Not sure if you have to get the alpha release or not. So use that instead.