Ban DPS Metres

[Enosh]

or you are one of those annoying people asking for dps meters in the chat...

nah those always have dps meters installed :P

[fangless]

Ban gearscore trololol.

These threads are always golden.

[dryankem]

I love my DPS meter but I use it correct (or at least IMO). I use it to see how I'm playing and to motivate myself to do better. I never post recount in chat or berate someone for having low damage, the people that do that have small epeens if you know what I mean.

Don't know if I can play as a DPS without a meter. =/

[Simulacrum]

The best thing I ever did in WoW was to get rid of my DPS/Healing meter addon. It frees you, IMO. I know how to play my class and I don't slack off in dungeons or raids, so I don't NEED an addon telling me my progress. I'm also not a very competitive person, so I don't really care if I'm number 1 or not. I play to have fun.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 02:16 AM ----------

Like others have said on here, it's the people behind the meter that cause most of the problems (those elitist jerks). It can be a great tool to have, so I'm not saying take it away. For me, I just prefer to go without it. Aslong as you know your class and have a solid rotation, I believe you'll do fine.

More information is never bad, as long as you know how to filter it and understand it. The meters don't do anything for you other than provide that information. When you say that you think knowing less makes you "free", it's hard to take you seriously as you follow it up with "I know how to play my class". If the information didn't make you aware of stuff you didn't want to know, then making yourself ignorant of it wouldn't be "freeing" you, it would be limiting you. Also, if you already know it, how does removing the meters make you "free"? If they don't tell you anything you don't already know, then removing them would do absolutely nothing...

Nevermind how the rest of your post is basically making excuses for what you say isn't your poor performance, when it sounds a lot more like you actually know that you perform poorly.

As for your final paragraph, the least objectionable one, you won't actually know if you have a "solid rotation" without the meters. Wether you "believe" otherwise or not is irrelevant, as you seem to have embraced willful ignorance in this area as something positive, and as such deserve ridicule at best within the context of this discussion.

Whenever I see people complaining about meters, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the mindset it represents. You want to know less? That's like the anti- everything that I think is good.

Anyway, personally I stopped caring about people preforming poorly in 5 mans a long time ago. I don't even bother to kick afkers unless somebody else initiates the vote. At least they're honest about it, unlike the poor performers who make ridiculous excuses to justify the way they play. I'd take a honest duchebag over a lying or willfully self-deceived one any day of the week!

[Ciddy]

DPS meters themselves are not a bad thing at all, and they shouldn't be banned. They're great tools for improving your own output and can be very handy for raid/group leaders who need to know exactly how a person died, who was DPSing the wrong target, etc. The problem is people who misuse them in various ways. You have the people who spam meters every 5 minutes to stroke their epeens, the people who stare at the meters and put the group at risk because they're too busy trying to stay at #1, etc.

The only time I can condone kicking someone for low DPS in a dungeon is when that low DPS genuinely threatens the group's ability to clear the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time (which it will not in most cases, unless the rest of the group is doing really low damage too). I guess the best advice I can give the OP is to try and play with friends/guildies as often as you can when possible so that you have a lower chance of grouping with dickheads (something that's guaranteed to happen when you're in full random groups).

Raids are another story though. I've been in a lot of raids (aside from LFR, which is kind of an exception since you only need like half the group awake to clear it) where a single low DPS has fucked us over.

[Purpleisbetter]

Recount (or Skada) is one of the top 3 things that makes wow enjoyable.

[Shepherd57]

I wouldn't mind them disabling the post to chat feature. I like being on top, but I assume everyone has one (know everyone doesn't) and doesn't need me showing them where we all stand. Likewise, when I am on an alt and don't have the gear to compete, I don't need people rubbing my low dps in my face.

[Tekkommo]

Level 89, in a level 85 dungeon, below the most likely level 85/86 tank in DPS.

You deserved the kick. I wouldn't of kicked you myself, cause the dps I bring makes up more than enough for it and the dungeon is easy. But if you're below the tank, it means you are getting carried by everyone else and you do not have the slightest clue how to play, you were level 89, the green quest gear you have is better than any this 5 man dropped.

[Bremmon]

If you are really trying, you will do decent enough dps to not get kicked.. If you are to busy typing to friends or messing around you wont, and you deserve to get kicked... That being said, If I'm a fresh lvl 90 I always tell the group before we start, though its never been an issue..

[Aamu]

Its not elitist jerks when you kick someone doing 10k dps at level 90 thats having a brain working with logic.

An elitist jerk would kick you for doing 30k dps when he is doing 35-40, not when its obvious you are just auto-attacking and expect to get carried.

This whole "Its elitist jerks and assholes!" excuse needs to stop, a fresh 90 with 440 item level greens can do 25-30k dps just by BUTTON MASHING, not even doing rotations, just press buttons when they light up.

12k DPS as the OP did is insanely low and it means he wasnt pressing anything and was just auto-attacking, this mentality needs to end, those people need to get kicked.

Yesterday i wiped in LFR cause we had 6-8people auto-attacking the boss only doing 15-17k DPS because they expect to be carried cause its "LFR" and others will do the job, not every boss works like that, the mentality of "I afk cause i can and expect others to do it for me" is the problem, not DPS meters and potential kicks.

I agree in everything thats said in here.

[Otaka]

I'm not really sure how this went down, but if you were one of the people in dungeons doing 15k dps, then I totally understand why you got kicked and I would have voted yes too. People were doing 15k DPS two expansions ago... I don't expect people to come in there in quest greens and do 90k or something, but at least pull your weight instead of having 4 others just boosting you.

people actually werent doing 15k in wotlk 5 mans. the max single target i managed to do myself with heroic gear was up to 8k dps. everyone was around 6k-9k depending on the boss(unbuffed), if it had a damage buff surely the dps was higher.
aoe dps should never be counted however.

8k was considered heroic raid dps. no matter what people say, with these new talents you could probably do a million dps who cares. but with the old ones you cant. and real men dodge bad shit so dps aint gonna be the highest possible because of that.

Not only do i hate what happened to the OP, i also hate people overcalling old exp dps values.

Low dps in todays dungeon doesnt really matter, because you can still complete the dungeon no matter if one dps is bad or not. hell, ive completed some dungeons on 4 man meaning our "worst" dps did whopping 0 dps.

[Firebert]

To those that kick for low DPS, I hope you realise that it's an arbitrary line:
"I kick if you're doing less than 15k"
"I kick if you're doing less than 25k"
"I kick if you're doing less than 50k"

If you push the line all the way the other way, you get:
"I kick if you're doing less than 150k"

You can see how silly that is. Don't even bother drawing the line.

It follows that the only DPS that is "deadweight" is one doing exactly no DPS, by either being dead or AFK. A damage dealer doing at least 1DPS is still pushing the boss closer to death and hence he is doing his job (albeit at a tiny percentage of efficiency). If you're kicking for low DPS, you're just trying to assert your epeen and make yourself look better than everyone else, which has the opposite effect.

The only time you should be kicking for low DPS is when there's an enrage timer you can't meet, and that only ever occurs in LFR (and is usually because players are dead, not because they're pulling no DPS).

[Qly]

As im sure some people said, the problem isnt meters, the problem is assholes: both assholes who feel like kicking people who aren't raid geared in 5mans and assholes who won't spend a little time researching their class

I never kick someone for performing according to their gear, usually i can carry dps in 5 mans anyways. Just don't be bad and stand in fire, pull extra mobs or fail at (honestly very simple) mechanics

Also, there simply is no reason for any dps to pull under 20k. 12k is an absolute joke, my wrathguard, wild imps, and terroguard pull more than that, my terribly geared warrior does about 30k and he barely qualifies for heroics

[BloodGutter]

To those that kick for low DPS, I hope you realise that it's an arbitrary line:
"I kick if you're doing less than 15k"
"I kick if you're doing less than 25k"
"I kick if you're doing less than 50k"

If you push the line all the way the other way, you get:
"I kick if you're doing less than 150k"

You can see how silly that is. Don't even bother drawing the line.

It follows that the only DPS that is "deadweight" is one doing exactly no DPS, by either being dead or AFK. A damage dealer doing at least 1DPS is still pushing the boss closer to death and hence he is doing his job (albeit at a tiny percentage of efficiency). If you're kicking for low DPS, you're just trying to assert your epeen and make yourself look better than everyone else, which has the opposite effect.

The only time you should be kicking for low DPS is when there's an enrage timer you can't meet, and that only ever occurs in LFR (and is usually because players are dead, not because they're pulling no DPS).

Not really, like a lot of people including myself have stated, we give plenty of leeway for people who aren't performing as well as they should be.

If you enjoy wasting time by carrying a person who isn't putting in any real effort in a dungeon or LFR by all means spend an extra 5-15 minutes doing that. This has nothing to do with asserting epeen or any elitist fallacy you're trying to classify people who kick, its about not putting up with slackers and afkers.

[twh]

The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.

This could basically apply to every single world/economic/social issue that exists.

"The problem isn't (insert_issue_here), the problem is assholes.

[dryankem]

This could basically apply to every single world/economic/social issue that exists.

"The problem isn't (insert_issue_here), the problem is assholes.

Unfortunately it's true though. A baseball bat used as intended is sporting equipment, used by an asshole it becomes a weapon.

DPS meters as a personal tool is good (IMO), as a means to bully others isn't.

[Firecrest]

Good god. Fifteen pages of bad players being mad they're getting called out and everyone else trying to explain that meters are what you make of them.

Not necessarily. If meters were ABSOLUTELY needed in WoW, then they would be in the default UI. A person who doesn't use them is not necessarily lacking in anyway, given they know how to play their class and have a solid rotation. You make it sound like getting a rotation down in WoW is an exact science. It's not, it's too easy and most people with a fully functioning brain and general understanding of the game can grasp it.

How can a person who has absolutely no measurable information regarding their sucess classify as "not lacking in any way"? That just... Makes no sense.

They're lacking information.

Now, my next comment - "I'm free", means exactly that. There is no hidden message. I used meters for a good while when I first played. And for me, it felt like you were a slave to constantly looking at it. I didn't like it and I still don't. Do I see a notable difference in my performance since getting rid of it? No. How do I know? Because like I said before, I know my classes. Also, there are other ways of checking your damage other than a damn addon. You know this.

You say you know your class. But how do you know your class without any objective measurement whatsoever? How do you know that you're living up to your full potential? How do you know that you're not under (or over) estimating your skill?

Even if we grant that you're a good player, how to you get from "good" to "great" without any performance data?

This comment of yours is very ignorant. You are assuming things, and we all know what they say about assumptions - "Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups."

The real assumption here is yours. You ASSUME that you play well. You don't know. Without data, you could be doing BC era DPS for all you actually know.

I don't know if you are angry that I can play well without a meter, or if you just genuinely think that no one can perform well unless they have it. Either way, comments like that are not needed.

The person you quoted said none of those things. The point he made is that, without meters, you are blind to knowledge that could help you. Willingly blind even. Kinda like how you blinded youself to the point he was making in the first place.

[Kreuzzug]

Not necessarily. If meters were ABSOLUTELY needed in WoW, then they would be in the default UI.

Just thought I would add, a blue post some months back stated that they are very reluctant to make dps meters part of the default UI because of how the community would react. I'm too lazy to actually look the thread up though.

[Theodon]

This is the kind of DPS I personally speak of when I say "This is just lazy and inconsiderate" the guy at #4

Mod Edit: Image Snipped, please block out names if you're going to post screenshots because we don't allow naming/shaming.

That was the entire DPS record of a Scarlet Monastery run.

[Kurzior]

The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.

Fact.

Meters are not inherently bad. People just don't use them in productive ways in a lot of circumstances. If you're using meters to look at a player's damage breakdown for example, that might tell you if their rotation is not being performed well. If they're damage on specific abilities is low, maybe they just need better gear. If they have a low number of ability hits, on a DoT for example, maybe they aren't refreshing it as often as they should be. Looking at recount and saying, "there's a hunter doing 50k and a pally doing 30k, the pally must be bad, kick him" is not really a good use of meters.

That said, in your specific case, some people are jerks. I've been in runs where someone started screaming to kick someone else because they focused the wrong mob or accidentally body pulled something, even though the player apologized immediately and clearly had just made an innocent mistake. It's the internet. Some people have really crappy attitudes, especially when you attack anonimity to the situation. It's just something you have to live with in online games. Report them for poor conduct, language, whatever, and move on. You're just going to get more frustrated if you try to reason with them.