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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    That kinda ssumes that people raid for prestige and to be ranked.

    Which is ofc, utter shite. People raid for fun. No one apart from a few aspergers sufferers with too much time on their hands cares about ranking or any of that stuff.
    Not really. Unless you mean it assumes at least some people do which yeah, but I'm pretty sure that is important to people in guilds like Blood Legion or Method. It certainly is important to people in guilds with sponsors or looking for sponsors, or do you think Paragon would have gotten that deal when they changed to Dream Paragon had they been 50th instead of 1st? All of that stuff attracts attention to 25m raiding which 25m raiding absolutely requires if it is going to stay alive. If they intentionally make 10m harder, all of that competitive stuff and attention that 25m has now disappears and its going to slowly die. Now that can't really happen with 10m because 10m is also the more casual option (not saying easier, not saying there isn't at least 1 competitive 10m guild for each competitive 25m out there, just that really casual 25m guilds are far more rare).

  2. #582
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Not really. Unless you mean it assumes at least some people do which yeah, but I'm pretty sure that is important to people in guilds like Blood Legion or Method. It certainly is important to people in guilds with sponsors or looking for sponsors, or do you think Paragon would have gotten that deal when they changed to Dream Paragon had they been 50th instead of 1st? All of that stuff attracts attention to 25m raiding which 25m raiding absolutely requires if it is going to stay alive. If they intentionally make 10m harder, all of that competitive stuff and attention that 25m has now disappears and its going to slowly die. Now that can't really happen with 10m because 10m is also the more casual option (not saying easier, not saying there isn't at least 1 competitive 10m guild for each competitive 25m out there, just that really casual 25m guilds are far more rare).
    All that stuff is irrelevent to most people playing wow.

    Sorry.

    People might watch paragon et all do amazing stuff on youtube, but when it comes to sorting their own ridds out, they do whats fun and/or easiest.

    Sponsors, world firsts, star players? No one gives a toss.

  3. #583
    Deleted
    I found this thread to be extremely useful. Absolutely amazing. 5 tries and the boss died with a perfect execution. Hero on gate three helped like hell.

  4. #584
    Deleted
    It wasn't so hard for us, item levels 495-502 ish.

    Prot Warrior
    Guardian Druid
    Resto Druid
    Disc Priest
    Holy Paladin
    DK
    2xMage
    Ele Shammy (beast for adds)
    Warrior

    We had trouble with 3rd so we swapped the tanks around so I took 3rd with banner. We saved hero for Jallak and I died as Jallak did (Prot warrior). Our druid continued to tank the boss from 65% -> 0% and he ended up on around 17 stacks. We were about 1 minute 10 ahead of the enrage timer.

    First gate - Big guys > Basilisks > Ignore others
    Second gate - Priests > The other big one > Ignore Bloodlords
    Third gate - Warlords > Low prio on the rest
    Fourth gate - All are pretty weak, just AoE them down & move away from totems.

    The boss is dead once the gates are done to be honest. As soon as we got past the 4th gate we killed it on that attempt.
    3 words: Carried by healers (Make sure you have some strong ones)

  5. #585
    We are 10 man. 16/16N two weeks before ToT release. We are not very hardcore but we are a coordinated bunch of people. We did it after 1 proper night of attempts. Logs are linked below. It's not a dps check. It's a execution check. We were getting destroyed on Phase 2, but after we got the dispels and interrupts in control. It went very smoothly leading to the kill. We were getting a dps or two dead to sandtrap or whatever they are called. The first time we got close to a kill he hit enrage & that was because of 2 dps dead on p3. I think this fights gets simpler. I was the dk tank, triple puncture do hit like a truck and u need to have well timed a death strike or a cool down to counter it. I was however bringing the adds near the boss when he smashed the gates so the dps can aoe and put some dps on the boss at tht time. We had the boss below 80% when the warlord jumped downed. We also had 2 dks pop army 1 after the another made p3 very very simple with players just staying away from frost orbs. I did calculate our average ilvl to be 495 before the fight. I think once people get the strat down it will be a very very easy fight & yes I am very happy with the way blizzard tuned this fight. It's brutal if you make mistake but again I was very disappointed with the first boss. Yes there's a steep difficulty curve between this and the first boss & from our attempts on council. Thats another fight people will have trouble with. It also requires a lot of coordination. So far 5/5 stars for blizzard. Oh and I forgot to mention before we did prioritized adds and single target them down. AOE won't really work. We did kill Effusion before the Priests on the second gate.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11180&e=11850
    Our Comp:
    Tanks: Blood DK & Guardian Druid
    DPS: Monk, Ele Shaman, 2h Frost dk, Mage, Hunter
    Healer: Priest, Monk & H. Pally
    Last edited by hashtags; 2013-03-11 at 01:24 AM.

  6. #586
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post


    You guys need to stop getting stuck on this crap. You can have something balanced for 10 and 25 with the same amount of adds. By your logic, Feng isn't balanced because there isn't 2-3 Fengs on 25m. Thats a load of crap. So long as they balance the damage outputs of the mobs and the dps needed to kill them in the same amount of time and the number of dispels (all of which they have done), there is absolutely no reason it can't be balanced with the same number of mobs. All you are talking about is making 10m noticeably easier than 25m which if they want to do, they should just go back to the WotLK model.

    Now if you want to talk specifics on tuning mob hp or mob spell damage or something fine, but it is not inherently harder/easier because the number of adds is the same.
    im not saying it cant be balanced for 10 and 25 man, all im saying is that currently it might be a bit overtuned for 10 man. ofc it can be balanced that is ofc, if blizz have done it correctly, which it seems, you're assuming that they have, which btw is not always the case. and i dont exactly understand your arguement about 2-3 fengs for 25m, as it makes absolutely no sense at all, as it is a boss and what i was talking about was adds, comparing adds to a boss is utter nonense by that account 25m horridon is infinitely easier coz there arent 10-15 adds out at a time. most of what i wrote is assuming that blizz has just taken the ratio difference between 10m and 25m(basically taken the adds' health in 25m and divided it with 2,5) and reduced the adds' health accordingly without taking the dpser pr add ratio into account, ofc im not ruling out that my assumptions are wrong coz they certainly might be, but thats just how it feels to me.
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2013-03-11 at 02:04 AM.

  7. #587
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    My 10 man guild (4/16H in T14) with raiders between 480-498 ilvl was able to do this within roughly 10 attempts last night.

    Comp:

    Brewmaster Monk (me)
    Blood DK

    Mistweaver Monk (significantly undergeared and 2 weeks into MoP raiding)
    Disc Priest (somewhat undergeared)
    Resto Sham

    Frost DK
    Frost DK
    Rogue
    Warlock
    Mage


    We tanked Horridon about 20-30 yards off-center, while adds were tanked roughly at the point where the more important adds jump down to.

    I tanked add waves 2 and 4, mostly because we felt that my monk tank DPS was superior for p2, and that Blood DK survivability was best for p3.

    We lusted/army on p3.

    I used defensive CDs while tanking double amani bear + dinomancer in p4.

    I interrupted first priest / dinomancer, while DKs chose priests to interrupt in p2. We only ever got 1-2 stacks of poison on people. Howling blast + keg smash handled effusions well.

    The first attempt that we got Jalak was our kill attempt, our blood DK died right as Jalak was about to die (Jalak then also killed a melee just as I was about to taunt, but then he died anyway). I ended up tanking Horridon until 20+ stacks with smart use of mini/major defensives and heal bombing, didn't really notice the enrage timer approaching any time soon.


    Overall I found the fight very fun and challenging, though potentially very comp dependant on 10 man.

  8. #588
    my 10 man killed him tonight(2/16H t14), everyone was around 496ilvl.

    here are the logs http://worldoflogs.com/reports/p5gir...?s=6590&e=7271

    while this fight CAN be done with sub 500 gear, it needs really tight execution.

    we had no DKs for door #3, no monk healer for door #2 clean up, and the other tank died rather early into the last phase and we had already used the Brez.

    im not going to rehash everything that people have been saying about how to do it, im just letting you know that it CAN be done(took us about 30 attempts total)

    we tanked the boss in the middle with his flank towards the active door.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkjnz
    If memory serves me right, a fox is a female wolf.

  9. #589
    Deleted
    We manager to kill it yesterday with group with ilvl between about 485-495. Our tanks were paladin and druid, healers disc, shaman and druid. This is what we found out to be usefull.

    - Resto druid puts symbiosis in paladin to get second dispel.
    - first three doors, shaman heals Horridon tank
    - Try not to move old adds to next door, because they will put some crap on the ground and this will make movement harder on new door.
    - First door both add tank healers dispel as much as they can and priest uses mass dispel if / when debuffs start to stack up
    - Second door kill priests ASAP, two ranged should be able to take care of effusions. Use stuns, interrupts etc as much as possible. Druid takes care of dispels, he should have two dispels thanks to symbiosis, also people who can drop them, use their own cooldowns (stoneform etc) after effusions and priests are dead.
    - Third door, tank kites mobs SLOWLY to fourth door so orbs are behind the group. Hero after second warlords enter. When adds hit tank with mortal strike, disc priest pops spirit shell and heals with that. Dispel duties disc and druid. You dont have to dispel right away, we found out that 5 stacks are something that needs to be dispelled.
    - Fourth door. In this we swapped tank healer. Shaman changed to add tank because he is able to dispel curses. Disc healed horridon tank and with horridons dmg debuff smite healing is quite easy.
    - For War-God Jalak we used potions to burn the mob down and Jalak tank used cd's. Horridon was healed by disc and with debuff stacking even more penance hits like a truck. After mob was down, Jalak tank waited for his cd's and then taunted Horridon. And then just dps horridon down.

    Hopefully these tips are usefull for someone.

  10. #590
    Bloodsail Admiral Mteq's Avatar
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    killed it yesterday, gear level ranging averaged about 495. was a close call but we managed.

    composition:

    Prot Pally
    Prot warrior (me)
    Resto druid
    resto druid
    resto pala
    enh shammy
    aflic lock
    retridin
    dps monk
    hunter

    i used banner on gate 2 & 4 tanking the boss on 1 & 3, had the boss facing the wall next to the gate. single target DPS nukage of the first "special mob" that came in. didnt have any poison volley's for gate 2. got a bit messy at 4 with the shaman totems flowing over to end fight right where we wanted to position the two bosses so had a bit of moving about, which didnt really help for the speed of the kill. we got there in the end though, just after the enrage. (if there is one, didnt really notice it but the DBM timer had run out)

    you can pre-mark and focus target the mobs on the bleechers, so that helps for assigning interrupts.

  11. #591
    Deleted
    It's a challenging fight. It may be overpowered for being the second boss, but it's not overtuned for the reason of normal mode. Our group killed it yesterday after all in all maybe 15-20 wipes. We are around itemlevel 494 give or take a bit. I, myself am 492.
    This is the best tip I can give:
    Army of the Dead is godsent. (Especially on the third door) Getting your interrupts straight is the only other thing to do. It's not an issue if one or two or 3 casts go off. More than that and it can get difficult.

  12. #592
    My guild managed to get him down last night on 10 man. We barely cleared 16/16N before the patch, and are pretty lightly geared. Here's some info I can provide for our attempt:

    Composition:
    493 Blood DK
    496 Bear Druid

    495 Holy Paladin
    490 MW Monk
    492 Disc Priest

    495 Frost DK
    495 WW Monk
    496 Shadow Priest
    497 BM Hunter
    488 Aff Lock

    Before the pull, I would mark the 3 Venom Priests with Moon (left), Square (right), and Triangle (middle), as well as the Frost Warlords with Star (left), Circle (middle), and Diamond (right). This made it really easy to call out focus targets during the fight.

    Our Bear tank pulled, and brought him to the first door. After the first doubleswipe, we would tank swap (this would give me overall less swaps for the next swap) I would tank Horridon by the door but in the middle, Bear tank picked up the adds. First phase is pretty easy, switch to Dinomancer when he's up, close the door and clean up the adds. Once all the adds are down, make your way to door #2 and perform a tank swap.

    At door #2, I assigned our WW Monk to interrupt Moon, our frost DK to interrupt Square, and I handled Triangle/Dinomancer interrupts. We could burn down Triangle before Moon and Square jumped down. right before they jumped down, I would pop Army, and we could clean up.

    Once those adds were down we performed another tank swap and headed to door #3. At door three, we focused circle as soon as he dropped, our frost DK popped his army, and we had everyone stack on the bear tank and move towards the last door while cleaning up the adds. We started to fall behind a bit, so we popped hero here to help clean up the adds before door #4 opened.

    We performed another tank swap, and picked up the adds as they came out. I would grip the casters as they came out to the pack, and we would focus those down first until the Dinomancer came. Once he was dead and the door was closed, we would focus a warbear then shaman one at a time till everything was gone. This door is probably the easier of the 4 provided people don't stand in totems.

    Once the adds were clear, we would perform another tank swap, our bear tank picked up the big guy who jumps down in the middle, burn him down, and get back on Horridon. Once the bear tanks puncture stacks fall of, perform another tank swap, and again for the other tank if needed (we had 2 swaps during the last burn phase). Boss died with 1:15 left on berserk timer.

    Hope that helps!

  13. #593
    btw, as 3/11, they just nerfed the trash on Horridon.

    "Reduced the health of the Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari, and Farraki adds on the Horridon encounter."
    http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/8953693

  14. #594
    The Patient Azelias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattachine View Post
    btw, as 3/11, they just nerfed the trash on Horridon.

    "Reduced the health of the Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari, and Farraki adds on the Horridon encounter."
    http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/8953693
    That will most definitely make things easier. By how much though, is the question...

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattachine View Post
    btw, as 3/11, they just nerfed the trash on Horridon.

    "Reduced the health of the Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari, and Farraki adds on the Horridon encounter."
    http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/8953693
    question is by how much? Also, is it live on EU since the blue was posted on US?

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    question is by how much? Also, is it live on EU since the blue was posted on US?
    Were just in there tonight, and didn't notice a difference in add health. Could the hotfix hasn't been applied until next raid lockout? I could be wrong.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Devwar View Post
    Were just in there tonight, and didn't notice a difference in add health. Could the hotfix hasn't been applied until next raid lockout? I could be wrong.
    The health nerf for Council was applied tonight, so I dont see why they would wait for Horridon adds until reset.

  18. #598
    I'll be honest, my guild is still on Horridon but for us (and I imagine many other groups) it's a L2P issue (I don't mean that offensively, just a statement of fact). We are a 2/16 H group, nothing amazing, but we are also currently in the process of replacing a couple of our members that had been holding us back in progression. Even with our held-back group this week we were able to get to the third door. I do think the second door should have one less Venom Priest in 10 man since having that many interrupts and dispells is asking a ton. Granted our group has some exceptional players mixed with a few bad ones but after a little practice we were getting all the adds down before the next door opened pretty consistently and with time to spare. I think the issue with this fight is more average raid groups are having trouble because it does seem pretty tightly tuned, everyone needs to know what they are doing at all times and a single missed interrupt could mean a wipe, it's most certainly rough. I wouldn't object to a little more wiggle room on this fight, it is a normal mode after all and normal-mode raiders are expected to make mistakes.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Devwar View Post
    Were just in there tonight, and didn't notice a difference in add health. Could the hotfix hasn't been applied until next raid lockout? I could be wrong.
    The nerf was about 15% hp on each mob i think i saw, previous was 1.6 mill on the basilisks, now i think they have 1.4. The councile nerf was about the same 15 million lower (was 90mill now 75), but it just seems like a bigger nerf due to the mechanics of the fight (empowerment).
    Last edited by jearle; 2013-03-12 at 04:27 AM.

  20. #600
    Fluffy Kitten Sonnillon's Avatar
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    So is this nerf on horridon for 10 or 25 man? As then the issue would still remain (bit less though) that 10-man have it bit tougher.

    We got to see p4 finally 2x during 3 hour of time we spent on him. Would've probably gotten farther, but raid time run out and for first 1.5 hours we had a boomkin along who struggled abit. We switched him with warrior with more DPS and got further.

    By now (as 10-man grp) I would say it is 50-50 dependancy on composition and player skill. We are still in process of learning the phases and finding people their roles which they are best in.

    We can choose from
    DPS: 1-2 warriors, 1-2 spriests, 1 rogue, 1 hunter (maybe a retri and boomy as well)
    Healers: 1-2 druids, 1 shaman, 1 monk
    Tank: druid, paladin

    So we don't have the ideal comp for anything. But as seen from last night practice, practice, practice, for us it takes just bit longer.

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