My issue with Blizzards new "gearing through LFR" game design.

[Hotsforyou]

LFR is the worst thing that has ever happened to WoW. Wont play before next expansion comes out.

I agree about LFR/LFD but i will be playing to raid. Pre WOTLK i used to love logging in and running dungeons with friends. Now the 5 mans are such a bore all i do is log in and raid and stand in panda city and make sure the guild is running smoothly.

[Madruga]

I understand your concerns OP, but look at it this way.

Back in BC, you would have a hard time skipping all tiers and going straight to Black Temple or, even more, Sunwell. There were guilds still doing Karazhan to gear up while other guilds were raiding Hyjal and Black Temple. It sucked for these lower guilds, even more because the raiders would go for higher guilds when they were geared up.

Now in Wrath, Blizzard made it easier to gear with newer dungeons in 3.2 and 3.3. Magnific, people didn't need to keep raiding Naxx and Ulduar to go into ToC. Ehhh... Look at the problem here. People DIDN'T need to raid Naxx and Ulduar anymore! The best raid content ever became oboslete very very quickly. Add to that that ToC was a really lackluster raid, and you see people burn out very quickly. The same happened in ICC, but at least this time the raid was very well done this time. And Ulduar mount runs became common, so at least now people were not so burned out... At least before ICC dragged for so long tha people again burnt out.

Fast Forward to Dragon Soul, because that was the pinnacle of gearing up too fast. I know that gearing up in 4.0 was a royal pain in the ass because of the difficulty in Heroics, but I'll skip to what happened in Dragon Soul... Do 7 Heroics a week, a couple of weeks and you can go straight into the final tier! That along the nerfs made it very easy to go even undergeared into the raid. And THEN, people got very burnt out. And began complaining.

Now in MoP, what I see is that they want to return to the BC model, where the previous tiers don't become obsolete too fast. Not a complete return, because that would be too costly for the not-on-the-edge guilds... But Blizzard's efforts is admirable in this case.

I think that gearing up throgh LFR and doing the precious tier in Normal or even Heroic is fine. IF, and it is a big IF, the drop rate is friendly, so you don't have to stay in older content for too long. If all you have to do is a couple of weeks, and then be able to do the new content in LFR along with the older raids for a bit more, and TEHN go into the new tier, I think Blizzard may be able to hit a sweet spot between keeping the old content relevant but not so mandatory.

[Crym]

No, they probably wouldn't. But for the vast majority of raiding guilds/players who grind away for months and months in normal mode raids, only to then realize that everything they had worked for is now pointless because of a new 5-man, such instant catch-ups are hugely demoralizing, and lead to overall sub losses for the game.

The issue is that in order to allow casual participation gear needs to be available enough for people to get what they need to participate, and some people are still stuck in the mentality that gear is the "rare thing that show's how good/committed you are". Titles, mounts, and pets are the rewards for skill and/or commitment above and beyond the average player now.

For players that are skilled and like the challenge, the prevalence of gear is a good thing, because Blizzard now assumes everyone has the gear available up to that point in progression and can tune the content (especially in hard modes) much tighter than they used to. There's content in game now that's much more intense than what was in classic.

The players that only get a few hours in a day to play are happier because they get to see more of the content. Although giving powerful gear out in 5 mans definitely cheapens the older content in the progression path if you're not doing it when it's fresh. That's why in another thread I suggested progression to continue to exist, but remove most of the grind so people are more apt to do it with a group of roughly "at level" players.

It's the players who don't have the skill to do the achievements and hardmodes but still play a LOT that end up being screwed the most. They run out of things to strive for, because anyone can get the gear, and they can't get the rare things reserved for the "cutting edge" players anymore. Reputation and profession grinds offer some rare rewards for incredibly committed players who prefer sticking to less precise things, but I'm sure these players were disillusioned early on into thinking they were actually good players because they progressed further than the average player when gear grinds were a factor. Unfortunately, that means the stuff designed for their preferred play style is "out of the question" for them, because they refuse to do anything but raid.

[Marema]

Your building an essay about why you're going to leave a game? Please don't post it on mmo-champs WoW general, im so tired of seeing the I quits and this is why when most people don't care about it to be fair and you're taking your time write an entire essay on it? Come on now just don't pay the 15$ and go do something else.

Some people need to make themselves feel like special snowflakes. Obvisouly he thinks his 15 bucks a month is critical to the success of Blizzard.

[CrossNgen]

Some people need to make themselves feel like special snowflakes. Obvisouly he thinks his 15 bucks a month is critical to the success of Blizzard.

Just wait until the end of the expansion, when it will become important.

[Crym]

Some people need to make themselves feel like special snowflakes. Obvisouly he thinks his 15 bucks a month is critical to the success of Blizzard.

Unfortunately, this is an MMO and a LOT of people need to make themselves feel like special snowflakes. Their combined 15 bucks a month is critical to the success of WoW at least.

I don't like the mentality of "I play more, so I should be granted success on a silver platter" either, but that's the reality.

[Boogums]

I'm finding an Issue with Blizzards current sentiment to using LFR as your primary way to gear to be able to get Raid ready as of MoP.

BOOM WRONG. Stopped reading here because within the first sentence the OP managed to prove he has no idea what he's talking about.

LFR isn't your primary way to ger gear to be able to raid in MoP, in fact, they specifically DON'T want people using LFR to gear up for raiding. So, yea.

LFR may be used as a catch up tool if you're lacking a few tiers into the expansion, but that doesn't mean it's primary function is to gear raiders out for normals.

[xanzul]

This feels kinda out of place as it is well written and makes sense. My first instinct was to suggest posting it on the official forums, but I feel current Devs are way too entrenched in their mindset to be swayed by anything short of direct orders caused by relevant subscription losses.

If you think game changes are ruled only by subscription loss then I'm absolutely astounded as to how you can even attempt to claim this when many things the "majority" want out of the game are still here 2-3 million subscription losses later.

[Belloc]

BOOM WRONG. Stopped reading here because within the first sentence the OP managed to prove he has no idea what he's talking about.

LFR isn't your primary way to ger gear to be able to raid in MoP, in fact, they specifically DON'T want people using LFR to gear up for raiding. So, yea.

LFR may be used as a catch up tool if you're lacking a few tiers into the expansion, but that doesn't mean it's primary function is to gear raiders out for normals.

Precisely.

I fully intend to use LFR to supplement my gear, but you better believe I'm going to be using Openraid to find heroic MSVs, HoFs, and ToES until I've got enough ToT gear, and that's on both of my characters. Anyone relying on LFR for their gear is severely limiting their character's growth.

[CrossNgen]

BOOM WRONG. Stopped reading here because within the first sentence the OP managed to prove he has no idea what he's talking about.

LFR isn't your primary way to ger gear to be able to raid in MoP, in fact, they specifically DON'T want people using LFR to gear up for raiding. So, yea.

LFR may be used as a catch up tool if you're lacking a few tiers into the expansion, but that doesn't mean it's primary function is to gear raiders out for normals.

Why wont you indulge us with your knowledge, then?

[xanzul]

lol Hears the thing last tir the normal mode raids started with mv so you can walk into normals in heroic blues just like every other xpack for years. Also you can walk into TOT with lfr gear. If you got the skills the guild your appling to will get you in.

For some reason people refuse to accept that normal mode raids aren't tuned around valor gear anymore. Maybe if people could get that through their thick skulls they might be able to start enjoying the game again rather than be "forced" to do whatever it is they don't like doing.

[Lexanna]

I think it is a precursor to the Death of 5 mans. Why design 8-10 5 man instances when they can just under tune the raid tier? Yep I can totally see them giving you the needed gear through leveling, and then making the next step LFR instead of a 5 man grind.

[zeuseason]

They are obviously promoting LFR and refuse to provide other means of 'gearing up' the exact same way we've been pigeon-holed into daily quest grinds for rep. And don't get me started on arenas....this is just a stage tho and it will pass for Blizz.

[xanzul]

That is assuming you have the Ilvl or Quality gear to go straight into Normal modes from the beginning of a New patch. With a new Character, and after having missed nearly 2 months of playing due to moving house and waiting for a new Internet connection/Stability I am pretty much relegated to running MSV over and over until I get enough gear to then run HoF and EOTS both which have insane queue times of 25-40mins, which also only give a small chance of getting gearing since I am currently without charms from last Patch.

Also to buy the Valor gear when your character is currently on 0/1000vp means 2 weeks minimum before I can buy even my first piece of valor gear, and that is assuming I've done the dailies and got the Rep to allow them to be bought.

They increased drop rate of gear in tier 14 LFR significantly and started handing out elder charms like candy. I don't want to hear anything about dailies either as the key to the palace drops off literally one of the first mobs you loot on Isle of Thunder each week and even being a complete idiot running through the solo scenario you should easily get 3+ elder charms just by doing that alone. Between crafting and the new faction tap for world bosses and other sources of gear I'm sorry but I just can't work up sympathy for these mythical players who somehow can't get geared in 5.2.

[Gurbz]

For some reason people refuse to accept that normal mode raids aren't tuned around valor gear anymore. Maybe if people could get that through their thick skulls they might be able to start enjoying the game again rather than be "forced" to do whatever it is they don't like doing.

Entry into any tier of raids was never tuned around Valor gear. It was just so easy to get that people got that idea into their heads, and now it is stuck.

[xanzul]

But we have the new heirlooms as JP sinks!!!! Yeah, I don't have issues with the current gearing model but it could use some work with the fact that JP has a small window of use being one of them. JP is more a relic from Cataclysm these days than an actual currency these days.

Blizzard hasn't liked having multiple tiers of gear currancy ever since the mess in Wrath. I wouldn't be surprised to see justice phased out entirely. There honestly just isn't a need for it not even for "catch up" gear as Blizzard has shown they can provide that sort of gear through other sources.

[Gurbz]

I think it is a precursor to the Death of 5 mans. Why design 8-10 5 man instances when they can just under tune the raid tier? Yep I can totally see them giving you the needed gear through leveling, and then making the next step LFR instead of a 5 man grind.

I don't think it will go that far. People like 5-mans, and it fills a niche. More complicated than a scenario, less complex than raids. I can see them doing less of them though, even at the start of an expansion.

[Totle]

You don't need to do LFR in order to gear up for normal.

Blizz has repeatedly stated that LFR is for people who want to see content without the time commitment. Their intent with LFR is not to use it as a stepping stone towards raid progression.

Through professions and factions, you should be geared up fairly well for regular raids without even stepping once into LFR.

[xanzul]

they buffed drop rates in 5.0 LFR

they put loads of elder charms into the treasure cache scenario (seriously, i got 16 from 1 run and also picked up another key last night)

you also get elder charms from mobs on the isle of thunder

they also nerfed 5.0 normal and HM raids by 10%



gearing up through LFR is fine, it should be a LOT easier than it was pre-5.2

also, long queues for LFR is just the way it is, i dont like having to wait 30 mins to get into a raid that's on the last boss - especially not when i need gear from the first boss, but 30 mins wait time (during which you can do dailies) is a lot easier than forming a guild, recruiting sensible raiders and trying to do normal modes. otherwise, queue as a tank or healer - tanks are always in demand for LFR and as such get much quicker queues.

Watch out there are a few people here and on the official forums spreading misinformation about key drop rates. Blizzard has flat out said each character is guaranteed to get 1 per week with a chance at looting a 2nd key yet these people persist in claiming you might go weeks without seeing one key on any character.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 12:56 PM ----------

It's just not the fact of LFR being made easier. It is the time constraint difference. In TBC/Wrath I could level and Alt and have him Current Tier Raid ready within a week or two, and begin enjoying actual Current Tier Raids on Normal/Heroic modes.

It just took me a Month just to get my Monk to an Ilvl high enough to be able to do ToT LFR tomorrow.. using the same amount of time I used to use.
Also whilst being declined from Pugs of Normal-Mode HoF and ToES, and being told by Guild Leaders that my gear wasn't good enough to raid with their core groups, even after destroying them in damage in Heroic dungeons etc.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:56 PM ----------



What do people have against people being able to start late in an Expansion and experience the last patch straight away though?

What we have now is a balance between TBC gearing and getting geared up within minutes of hitting lvl cap. Is it perfect? No but it is better than what we have had for a long time and no player with "time constraints" can honestly make the claim they are having a hard time gearing up. If they are then they are flat out ignoring the various things Blizzard put in 5.2 to make gearing easier.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 12:58 PM ----------

I don't mind the LFR Raid setup, but I would prefer if we could go back to these two things:
1. Remove the weekly valor cap, just leave the 4000 cap. This 1000 a week shit it terrible, atleast bump it up to 2000 so you can purchase something useless once a week.
2. Make the epic loot 100% drop chance for last boss in the heroic dungeons. I never understood why they removed that, the ilvl 363 gear is terrible.

If valor gear is "useless" then why are you bothering with it at all?

[Deleted]

The only fear I have is that by the time te last raid of the expansion is out, the queue times of 5.0 and 5.2 LFR will be comepletely out of control and it will be impossible to gear up through LFR because MoP isn't as alt friendly as other expansions which could result in a lot less people running the older raids in some time, but I guess we'll see if that's the case in some time.