Hardcore Raiding: Time investment > Skill

[fangless]

Regarding time over skill, there are still plenty of 3 day a week guilds that are doing heroic content as well. Not necessarily top 25 or whatever, but it's still doable. I would say if guilds like ours had 7 days to play, 12+ hours a day, we could probably kill a lot of things too.


But there's DEFINITELY a skill gap between these types of guilds, and ones that raid a few days a week but still are considering Normal mode their progression path.

[dkdk]

My raid team can only put out about 7 hours a week total in 2 raid nights, everyone on my server should have to do the same so that no one has an advantage. Also if we have people missing or can't raid for some reason no one else should. /sarcasm

Some people take raiding to the level of basically a job. If they want to dedicate their life to a game for a while, let them. It is no ones place to limit what others do, unless it is harming someone. Sure its probably not healthy to raid 12+ hours in a day, but neither is going out and drinking all night long. As long as you don't cause harm to someone else, its your life, do with it as you see fit.

I'm sure if my raid team had more time to raid we could down more stuff, shoot if we got a full 7 hours of raiding in and not have to wait for people dealing with their kids or having computer/internet issues, we would kill more stuff. It's the fact that we choose to have a life outside of wow that causes us to have less progress and that is perfectly acceptable.

(Yes, I realize this was about "hard-core" raiders, but you start with this stuff and it will go down hill quickly)

[Deleted]

By stating time investment > skill you seem to assume that these aren't already some of the best players in the world in their respective field. Not only are they the ones getting the top ranks once all logs are made official and gear seems to be more equalized, but they are at the same time able to optimize their role for what is best for their team.
Even then they have to be able to plan ahead of time regarding their gear choices (for fights that haven't been killed before, with specs they don't if they will be playing), seeing as they aren't able to get the theorycrafting done during progress, as those hours are used on killing bosses.

And while that is said, these players also have to know about the meta game. They need to be able to strategize, and be able to perform a multitude of roles on several characters.

Just because you think top guilds spends a hell of a time killing content, doesn't mean that players who play less would have a chance competing against them. This isnt only about being time efficient, but also about spending your time outside the game for both mentally preperation, but also being able to use tools outside the game to optimize your performance in the game.

By they way, these players are extremely time efficient because of their preperation (even when you take into consideration that they are playing for many hours straight). Just look at their kill times. There are many good 3 days a week guilds, but even the best of these guilds aren't close to the time efficientcy of the world's best guilds, despite them actually having kill videos, time to theorycraft outside the game, and several weeks of loot drops in addition to what the fastest guilds had when they were doing the content.

I honestly think your title is a bit ignorant, as if the world's best guilds aren't already the best players, at the top of their career. Not only is it the most dedicated and skilled players that gets the opportunity to play along with the very best, but even beyond that point they will put their whole mind and soul into becoming better at the game, because beyond that point it is where competetion starts to become real fun.

If they don't like doing what they are doing, they will simply stop doing it. Hence you see many hardcore players quitting/going casual after every tier. Staying hardcore is not something that is made for everyone, but everyone should have the opportunity of doing so.

[Tharkkun]

I've seen this topic thrown around a lot recently so I have a possible solution that I would like to share. What if blizzard limits guilds and player accounts to 7 - 9 hours of raiding a day, with lets say four 10 minute periods to stop the clock for breaks.

Benefits:
- A more competitive race for guilds who are willing to put in the effort but can't devote ridiculous hours a day to raiding.
- Less physical and mental exhaustion
- More focus on effective strategy, execution, efficiency, skill what have you rather than time investment
- Reduced player burnout
- Reduced incentive to do multiple alt runs
- Bosses will last longer

If you can list any negative repercussions to this idea please share.

While you're at it, please limit the practice time of every athlete. Think about what you're proposing here exactly?

At some point time > skill but you need to meet a minimum skill requirement to even reach that point. Most of the world first guilds stop playing shortly after the race is over until the next patch. They play for the race and nothing else.

[Deleted]

Is this Jaylock's new forum account?

[cFortyfive]

Can I please decide myself how much time I spend on what I want? Thank you.

Pretty much.

[Eazy]

Ra'den = no Time Investment, the guild who down him first will be skilled.

[Deleted]

Not sure if OP is trolling but if he's not - It's a ridiculous idea. Let people decide for themselves how much they want to play.

[eijin]

yeeaaahh this sounds horrible.

if you dont have the time to be in a world first guild, dont try to enforce your play style on others.

That being said, beyond "world first" guilds quite a few guilds do manage to stay competitive with less time played. 9-12 hours a week was still more than enough to get cutting edge sha HM down.

In general, "let people play how they want to play".

[Dragore]

Is this Jaylock's new forum account?

lol

Like someone already posted hard core players would just have multiple accounts. I like the idea of having 1 boss like Ra-Den that limites attempts makes a fight like that that much more interesting. The whole instance being like that would be terrible and annoying. Imagine wiping at 1% at your end of hours.

[Wafffles]

List any negative. For one, how about people who set aside one day a week solely for playing, say Saturday, and play very little the rest of the week due to work, etc? "9 hours is plenty even for them." Really? Should people who go boating on Saturday be back at the docks by 5 pm no matter what? Should people who go see football games and tailgate in the morning leave during the third quarter because they've exceeded the 'sufficient' football time allotted to them?

You're at a rudimentary level of the thought process that invariably ends with limited attempts, which they've tried and didn't work particularly well except in a few cases. And they use it occasionally, for such cases. Otherwise, let people play how they want to.

[Simulacrum]

This is what i'm not sure about; do people want to play all day? or do they feel forced to do so to remain competitive?

This is the retarded bullshit attitude that robbed me of the pleasure of doing relaxed 10 mans for fun, while raiding somewhat more seriously in a 25m guild, by making them share lockouts, so that people won't "feel forced" to do them both... so because some hypothetical other people maybe didn't like doing this, I'm not allowed to do it either?

That makes about as much sense as if, because *I* don't like to do dailies, *nobody* should be allowed to do dailies!

[Meleti]

Ra'den = no Time Investment, the guild who down him first will be skilled.

Or they'll have a very high item level. I'm betting on ilvl, because guilds like BL and Exodus happen to have done about two months more ToT farm than people who didn't run 6-7 raid groups last week.

[Keoren]

There is no reason for these restrictions. If guilds want to push it to the limit, let them. The negatives can at times even be considered a part of the charm.

However its rather hilarious that 9/10 its the TIME these guilds put in that gets them their ranks. NOT skill.

I can assure you that while the top players put in massive amounts of hours and manage their time well, they are also for the most part exceptionally skilled in what they are doing. On top of this, they tend to have the responsibility of coming up with the working tactics for the encounters that the people coming after them can follow.

[Renegader]

People should be able to play how they want.

However its rather hilarious that 9/10 its the TIME these guilds put in that gets them their ranks. NOT skill.

keep saying that to make your self feel better

[Bryntrollian]

No the idea is completely idiotic, go away!

[Darkfriend]

One bad and stupid idea. Why is it Blizzard's job to decide how much people can play? That's just stupid.

[Deja Thoris]

I'd raid 20 hours a day and still be average. Theres a lot more to factor in than time.

It's a stupid OP.

[Deleted]

Loving how the OP has steered clear from returning to this thread.

The suggestion is just ridiculous for all the reasons already mentioned.

[ebah]

Were in top20 guild in world (25man) in last content and we raided 6~ hours 5days a week depending how people could raid.