Ret Ok? Far from it. Yes this is my Rant.

[MackMaynee]

It just feels that you are complaining endlessly about things that have nothing to do with the class.

You are comparing a Ret Paladin's decent things to other classes outstanding things.

Shadowburn is an execute that is better than Paladin's yes. But as others have said it costs A BE instead of giving them one which is a strength. You countered that point with "it one shot's people in blues" or something similar, but you shouldn't be talking about things in PvP when it's in Blues. Full geared is when things can be declared OP

You are forgetting in retrospect that things like Warlocks, Mages, Rogues etc are all meant to do big damage. A Ret is a damage dealer, yes but not a primary damage dealer. The purpose of a retribution paladin in PvP is to be a bursty support. With cooldowns up rets are top 5 in burst ATM, however float around the middle to bottom without. The thing that makes them one of the best is their UTILITY! Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, (in non-rated play LoH), Divine Shield, a ranged stun, Repentance if you spec into it, BLINDING LIGHT! And the most important thing: BIG HEALS! I don't know if you played in Cata but triple DPS (scumbags but it's an example!) was only successful because the Ret still did extremely high damage, but brought the needed heals if the game went a bit longer than expected.. or Scooby Doo Cleave, it helped the priest out significantly when he was being trained to have that support!

If you are playing ret for high damage all the time it isn't the class for you man. A Ret is meant to be bursty with support

And I am a multi-glad, so not some random spreading bullshit everywhere.

[Buxton McGraff]

Ret is in a pretty good place imo. I went 10 and 3 this week, only losing to 2 dif groups from Tichondrius who were decked out the ass and had OP comps. I did very well in RBGs as well, with a lot of support healing with great burst damage. The only area that I think Ret needs to be addressed is survivability. We have good self heals but we have to sacrifice a lot of damage to spam Word of Glory, and the instant Flash of Light from Selfless Healer is only usable every 18 seconds (15 with a lot of haste). I think we need a new survivability cooldown. I like the idea of Sacred Shield, but it's not worth it to lose Selfless Healer because that removes all of our group utility. It'd be nice to see Sacred Shield baseline for Ret again like back in the day, but I don't think that will happen.

[nyc81991]

Ret is in a pretty good place imo. I went 10 and 3 this week, only losing to 2 dif groups from Tichondrius who were decked out the ass and had OP comps. I did very well in RBGs as well, with a lot of support healing with great burst damage. The only area that I think Ret needs to be addressed is survivability. We have good self heals but we have to sacrifice a lot of damage to spam Word of Glory, and the instant Flash of Light from Selfless Healer is only usable every 18 seconds (15 with a lot of haste). I think we need a new survivability cooldown. I like the idea of Sacred Shield, but it's not worth it to lose Selfless Healer because that removes all of our group utility. It'd be nice to see Sacred Shield baseline for Ret again like back in the day, but I don't think that will happen.

I agree with that. Ret is pretty good overall we just need better survivability. I hope for the day when training the Ret isn't what everyone does by default.

[Doublebuble]

True, but there is no reason why it couldn't hit harder when the target is actually under 20% health.

Does it really need to take this many people to post this common sense?

Why can't the tooltip read off 19k damage to anyone above 20% and even 80k to someone below 20% so even with wings and holy avenger youd only hit 120k damage...which is equal to my Warlock in 80% Blues.

There are TONS of abilities with NUMEROUS abilities tied to them, Rets abilities are so X does Y and that's it.

[Reith]

The thing that makes them one of the best is their UTILITY! Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, (in non-rated play LoH), Divine Shield, a ranged stun, Repentance if you spec into it, BLINDING LIGHT! And the most important thing: BIG HEALS!

I swear you must be talking about a holy paladin here, because holy paladins bring ALL of that, and have the better positioning capabilities. Oh and Denounce.

[Doublebuble]

19k Hammer of Wrath does sound low, assuming you are talking target dummy/PVE damage values? I mean it could hit for that if you are hitting a pvp geared player and you have very little/no pvp power.

Mine hits in the 50k range during wings, but that is on a PVE mob. And my gear isn't uber fantastic.

I apologize to everyone and maybe I was recalling 19k when I had different Gems or Less gear. I just logged in to check my tooltip for HoWrath. It reads 22,202 Holy Damage.
I have 47% pvp Power and 25k Attack Power. Im Full Malev Some Upgraded and one piece of Tyrannical. Upgradedx2 Weap just fyi if anyone cares.

[Regen]

The only reason it "doesn't hit harder" under 20% is because you don't use wings and trinkets then. It hits for a set amount and it just so happens you have 2-5 modifiers up when you're not in execute range but using it.

Also there's been 20 posts explaining why to NOT compare it to shadow burn. The two are not sister abilities and are not comparable.

[Doublebuble]

It just feels that you are complaining endlessly about things that have nothing to do with the class.

You are comparing a Ret Paladin's decent things to other classes outstanding things.

Shadowburn is an execute that is better than Paladin's yes. But as others have said it costs A BE instead of giving them one which is a strength. You countered that point with "it one shot's people in blues" or something similar, but you shouldn't be talking about things in PvP when it's in Blues. Full geared is when things can be declared OP

You are forgetting in retrospect that things like Warlocks, Mages, Rogues etc are all meant to do big damage. A Ret is a damage dealer, yes but not a primary damage dealer. The purpose of a retribution paladin in PvP is to be a bursty support. With cooldowns up rets are top 5 in burst ATM, however float around the middle to bottom without. The thing that makes them one of the best is their UTILITY! Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, (in non-rated play LoH), Divine Shield, a ranged stun, Repentance if you spec into it, BLINDING LIGHT! And the most important thing: BIG HEALS! I don't know if you played in Cata but triple DPS (scumbags but it's an example!) was only successful because the Ret still did extremely high damage, but brought the needed heals if the game went a bit longer than expected.. or Scooby Doo Cleave, it helped the priest out significantly when he was being trained to have that support!

If you are playing ret for high damage all the time it isn't the class for you man. A Ret is meant to be bursty with support

And I am a multi-glad, so not some random spreading bullshit everywhere.

I just checked HoW tooltip on my char, 22,202 damage. With Wings and Holy Avenger COMBINED that's +50% damage for max 18 seconds. so now the amazing HoW that most of you are telling me I shouldn't be complaining about with TWO two minute buffs applied does 33,303 Damage for 18 seconds ONCE evey 5.66 seconds and you're telling me this is justifiable ? Not only that but when the target is actually below 20% health there is no damage Compareable to other Damage dealing classes.

And if you're gonna stand here and tell me as a Multi-Glad that this bullshit about Ret being a Hybrid and gets to heal so shouldn't do as much damage as locks rogues and mages I've got one thing to tell you. THEY ALL HEAL MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN RET and still out burst and out sustain ret so that time has far past wake up and smell the 100k damage more on that one classes ability is doing than rets and understand that it's things like this that the economy is so easy to turn a blind eye to that leaves ret in the shitter.

[Doublebuble]

"The only reason it "doesn't hit harder" under 20% is because you don't use wings and trinkets then. It hits for a set amount and it just so happens you have 2-5 modifiers up when you're not in execute range but using it.

Also there's been 20 posts explaining why to NOT compare it to shadow burn. The two are not sister abilities and are not comparable".

I disagree, any execute style ability should definatley be balance in the same topic as another.

[MackMaynee]

I swear you must be talking about a holy paladin here, because holy paladins bring ALL of that, and have the better positioning capabilities. Oh and Denounce.

Haha, this is true. But Rets bring burst!

[nyc81991]

The only reason it "doesn't hit harder" under 20% is because you don't use wings and trinkets then. It hits for a set amount and it just so happens you have 2-5 modifiers up when you're not in execute range but using it.

Also there's been 20 posts explaining why to NOT compare it to shadow burn. The two are not sister abilities and are not comparable.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

The reason why it should hit harder when the target is under 20% is because that is when they are in execute range. Seeing as how HoW is an execute ability it should hit like one. When the target is above 20% and you use wings it should be exactly the same as it is now.

[Regen]

"The only reason it "doesn't hit harder" under 20% is because you don't use wings and trinkets then. It hits for a set amount and it just so happens you have 2-5 modifiers up when you're not in execute range but using it.

Also there's been 20 posts explaining why to NOT compare it to shadow burn. The two are not sister abilities and are not comparable".

I disagree, any execute style ability should definatley be balance in the same topic as another.

No, because there's always a greater picture you're not looking at. You can't just say "this one does more than mine, fix it" because of many other factors involved. Generating holy power and leading to TV's compared to costing burning embers is HUGE. Like really huge. I don't see what's so hard to understand there. It makes an absolutely huge difference in comparison arguments.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

The reason why it should hit harder when the target is under 20% is because that is when they are in execute range. Seeing as how HoW is an execute ability it should hit like one. When the target is above 20% and you use wings it should be exactly the same as it is now.

Because it also generates resources leading up to the strongest ability - TV. No other execute is like this. Execute (warrior) just costs a gcd and a lot of rage, generates nothing - high damage. Shadow burn (warlock) costs a BE (which takes a bit to acquire) and a gcd, generates nothing - high damage. Our ability, generates holy power, costs a gcd - mediocre damage. It makes absolute perfect sense that it works the way it does simply because it generates holy power at no cost - like others.

[nyc81991]

Because it also generates resources leading up to the strongest ability - TV. No other execute is like this. Execute (warrior) just costs a gcd and a lot of rage, generates nothing - high damage. Shadow burn (warlock) costs a BE (which takes a bit to acquire) and a gcd, generates nothing - high damage. Our ability, generates holy power, costs a gcd - mediocre damage. It makes absolute perfect sense that it works the way it does simply because it generates holy power at no cost - like others

Tv doesn't hit very hard so that isn't really saying a whole lot.

[Afarensis]

Tv doesn't hit very hard so that isn't really saying a whole lot.

What are you smoking? My TVs crit for 200-300K in raids.

[Regen]

Tv doesn't hit very hard so that isn't really saying a whole lot.

Look around some logs, single target fights what comes up right behind Hand of Light (which is contributed to by TV)? Templar's Verdict.


Link, top ret on elegon 25H
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3941&e=4254

[Reith]

Look around some logs, single target fights what comes up right behind Hand of Light (which is contributed to by TV)? Templar's Verdict.


Link, top ret on elegon 25H
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3941&e=4254

you're not usually gonna get numbers even close to that in pvp because you won't be buffed enough and you usually won't have sunder armor on them or anything like that. and obviously, resilience.

[Afarensis]

I now agree, Ret is in a terrible position, he's already two games down against Flash!

[nyc81991]

What are you smoking? My TVs crit for 200-300K in raids.

I'm talking about PvP not raiding.

[Afarensis]

You might want to get yourself a better weapon. Of course the attack that scales heavily from weapon damage isn't going to hit for very impressive numbers when you have a 478 weapon.

[Austilias]

Ret's problems can be summed up in a number of ways;

-Too many attacks that hit for similar amounts
-Low sustained/High Burst; the latter of which is bound to CDs
-The class has become 50% caster/ranged in essence; a Melee kiter/a paradox
-Holy's OP'ness has caused Ret to suffer from Blizzard's constant paranoia about making it strong (something which is not reflected in other hybrids such as Druid)

Not holding out for a serious solution for Ret until the next expansion to be honest.