The League of Legends thread

[Deleted]

The system makes sure you're at the right skill level before it promotes you. If you're winning constantly, you'll quickly end up in a higher league. The system only slows you down a bit, to make sure you're not just on a lucky streak.

>Slows down a bit.
>1 point per match.
But okay, Riot is flawless, I get it.

[Riboe]

How the hell would one get lucky and go from Silver I to Platinum III. Thats like 8 promotions. You just don´t get lucky for that long. And if that Silver I player doesnt below in Plat III, his MMR will drop back down anyways and it won´t be a problem anymore. I´m not 100% sure how exactly the system works but I don´t think you should be punishing players for winning streaks.

I havn´t really encountered any problems with the current system but I kinda preffered how straightforward the old system was.

With the old system, it was far easier to go get to Platinum with a couple of lucky win streaks. The point of the system slowing down LP gains is not to punish the player who's on a win streak, but instead to spare players who are higher ranked from players who are far worse than they are.

[Deleted]

With the old system, it was far easier to go get to Platinum with a couple of lucky win streaks. The point of the system slowing down LP gains is not to punish the player who's on a win streak, but instead to spare players who are higher ranked from players who are far worse than they are.

But you dont get it, the new system uses the exact same ELO system to match you with your opponent, it´s just that you can´t see it. The league system does not match you vs your opponents, the MMR/ELO system does. The main difference is that you can´t lose your league anymore, no matter how low your ELO goes.

[Riboe]

>Slows down a bit.
>1 point per match.
But okay, Riot is flawless, I get it.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I have never even thought that Riot is flawless, let alone said it.

If someone is getting 1 LP per win, it just means the system thinks he doesn't belong in whatever League is next. If he belongs there, he will get there. If he doesn't, he won't. Simple.

With the old system, it was more than just a possibility for someone to get matched with people far above their skill level, thus creating a negative experience for his 4 teammates and himself. The new system reduces that risk to a minimum.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 07:07 PM ----------

But you dont get it, the new system uses the exact same ELO system to match you with your opponent, it´s just that you can´t see it. The league system does not match you vs your opponents, the MMR/ELO system does. The main difference is that you can´t lose your league anymore, no matter how low your ELO goes.

Riot stopped using their own derivation of the Elo formula when the League system got implemented.

While the League system still relies on a single number in order to function, that number is no longer calculated using the Elo formula, which results in some very different numbers.
Then add in the League system's new logic, checks and balances, new thresholds for Leagues, etc. and then you can't compare the number from the new formula to the number from the Elo system.

The two systems are just too different.

[Deleted]

>If someone is getting 1 LP per win, it just means the system thinks he doesn't belong in whatever League is next. If he belongs there, he will get there. If he doesn't he won't. Simple.

Explain why someone loses one game, at this "1 lp gain" point, and then starts gaining points normally again? Like +20/+17/+16. Exceeding the last loss?
That's a flaw in the system, not "balance". Open your eyes and see the truth allready, my god.

[Deleted]

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't put them there, they were dribbling out between your sentences.

If someone is getting 1 LP per win, it just means the system thinks he doesn't belong in whatever League is next. If he belongs there, he will get there. If he doesn't he won't. Simple.

Oh yes, the almighty system will decide where he should be. The grand unquestionable system shall forever wisely rule over our lives as a symbol of great strength and glory.
(How about if they don't think he should be there, they, I dunno, give him some sort of a challenge?)

With the old system, it was more than just a possibility for someone to get matched with people far above their skill level, thus creating a negative experience for his 4 teammates and himself. The new system reduces that risk to a minimum.

So how are winning streaks somehow inherently more lucky than just winning a decent number of matches with losses in between? Your rating might spike a bit but a single streak or two isn't gonna be the deciding factor causing you to suddenly be matched against an EG stack.

[NotValidAnymore]

A win streak doesn't mean you're good. It could just as well be a bad player getting lucky.

You mean like ELO Hell, except reverse?

ELO Hell doesn't exist, and neither does this "bad player getting carried up"-thing.

A player might seem bad because he's not at the top of his game that match, or other issues. No one's gonna be incredibad, yet sail up to Platinum without a care. That's just stupid.

If someone is consistently getting good stats and winning streaks, yet isn't gaining nearly as much LP as he should, the system isn't working correctly.

[Riboe]

>If someone is getting 1 LP per win, it just means the system thinks he doesn't belong in whatever League is next. If he belongs there, he will get there. If he doesn't he won't. Simple.

Explain why someone loses one game, at this "1 lp gain" point, and then starts gaining points normally again? Like +20/+17/+16. Exceeding the last loss?
That's a flaw in the system, not "balance". Open your eyes and see the truth allready, my god.

I can't explain that. As much as I would like to, I can't.

I've read every single red post about the League system that I've been able to get my hands on. I even have my own custom red tracker to help me keep up with every single red post made on the EUNE, EUW and NA forums... But the situation you're in, Zelgius, isn't one I've heard about before.

While it is a potential flaw, I'm confident that Riot would have addressed it during internal testing or not long after release of the League system, if it wasn't by design.


@Okuu:
While I quite often question Riot's ability to balance champions, I -as stated above -am confident that Riot doesn't just rush such an important system.
The Tribunal is extremely accurate. 99.9% accurate I believe I read last time someone brought it up.
If anything, that shows how amazing Riot is at creating insanely complex systems that work ridiculously well.
I am convinced that if the League system wasn't significantly better than the Elo system, Riot wouldn't spend a ton of time and money to develop it.

If it's so much worse than the Elo system, explain why Riot would develop it in the first place?

[Firebert]

Still makes no sense.

If anything, winning constantly should only make you rise faster, not slower. The system is broken, nothing else.

Winning constantly against low ELO players makes you rise slower. It's matchmaking's problem, not the system.

[Maelle]

>If someone is getting 1 LP per win, it just means the system thinks he doesn't belong in whatever League is next. If he belongs there, he will get there. If he doesn't he won't. Simple.

Explain why someone loses one game, at this "1 lp gain" point, and then starts gaining points normally again? Like +20/+17/+16. Exceeding the last loss?
That's a flaw in the system, not "balance". Open your eyes and see the truth allready, my god.

I have a friend in Plat 1 who has the exact same issue, he's only getting 1 point per win, he complains about it to me quite often ^^

[Riboe]

If someone is consistently getting good stats and winning streaks, yet isn't gaining nearly as much LP as he should, the system isn't working correctly.

I have a cousin who's currently in Platinum IV.
Before the League system he had a hard time staying above the point at which you got Gold.
Then we got the League system and it initially placed him in Gold IV or III, but then quickly realized that he didn't belong in Gold, so it helped him get up to Platinum and he's still rising. All thanks to a better system.

The system also indicates that I don't belong in Silver and I should at least be Gold. I personally believe that I belong somewhere in Gold.. Not sure exactly where though. Maybe in IV or III... My point is, that the system have correctly estimated my skill level and think that I should be in Gold and it's now helping me get there. Just like t correctly estimated my cousin's skill level.

From all that I've read about the system and from what I can tell, the system is working correctly.

That doesn't mean there can't be a few edge cases, where something goes wrong, just like with anything else. Even the old system was flawed and completely wrong according what my friends and I have experienced.

The system is more accurate than ever before.

[Deleted]

The Tribunal is extremely accurate. 99.9% accurate I believe I read last time someone brought it up.

So how do they assess this accuracy again? Do Riot manually go through a large, random selection of cases and see if they were properly dealt with?

[Duilliath]

From what I've seen, they go through *every* ban. All of them.

[Riboe]

From what I've seen, they go through *every* ban. All of them.

It's been a long time since I read up on the Tribunal, but I believe you're right. No one gets banned without Riot making sure it's the right thing to do.

Going through a large selection of cases is a legitimate way to gauge such a system's accuracy, so I don't know what you're trying to say, Okuu.

[Deleted]

It's been a long time since I read up on the Tribunal, but I believe you're right. No one gets banned without Riot making sure it's the right thing to do.

Does this include every single possible punishment or just permabans?

If it's so much worse than the Elo system, explain why Riot would develop it in the first place?

Ribby did you edit this shit in man.
Okay, let me preface this by saying that Riot can invest time and money into something and fail, that much is true for anyone. Except Valve, where the fuck is HL3

Because Riot wants to feel like they didn't waste all that time and money.
Or maybe they just have no clue.
*shrug*

[Deleted]

The tribunal is only accurate because most of the LoL community could probablly be banned if all their worst behaviour was showed, especially those that end up in the tribunal. This means that some innocent people occasionnaly get punished since most people in the tribunal litterally just spam punish since it will give them imaginary points.

[NotValidAnymore]

Stuff

You may be right.

My only issue is that it doesn't make sense for it to think of you that way, then suddenly you lose ONE match and it's like "Derp, I guess I should start working normally now!" or some stupid thing like that.

I mean, I understand if you fight people below your place, you'll gain less points... but why does it fix itself after one loss?

[Duilliath]

Does this include every single possible punishment or just permabans?

From what I've seen, all time bans up to and including perm bans.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 08:40 PM ----------

You may be right.

My only issue is that it doesn't make sense for it to think of you that way, then suddenly you lose ONE match and it's like "Derp, I guess I should start working normally now!" or some stupid thing like that.

I mean, I understand if you fight people below your place, you'll gain less points... but why does it fix itself after one loss?

Not sure, but seem to recall a red post stating something about that going to be addressed.

[Deleted]

Ahh finally Silver Division II...getting to gold one step at a time..highest I've been ranked so far.

Though I wonder, at what point would you guys say the skill level starts to really show in increased? Because yesterday when I was in Division IV...I was still matched with Bronze II and III people...but now I get matched with people in the same division or 1 higher...doesn't FEEL much different, maybe 1 or 2 less big mistakes per game, but roughly the same.

[Deleted]

Ahh finally Silver Division II...getting to gold one step at a time..highest I've been ranked so far.

Though I wonder, at what point would you guys say the skill level starts to really show in increased? Because yesterday when I was in Division IV...I was still matched with Bronze II and III people...but now I get matched with people in the same division or 1 higher...doesn't FEEL much different, maybe 1 or 2 less big mistakes per game, but roughly the same.

Platinum III and higher. Approximately.
Gold players still suck. As do Plat V-IV players.