4 P + O-P Helm v.s. 2P + O-P Helm, Chest, & Shoulders

[Mataru]

We won't get anywhere unless someone can do some proper math or sims to bring to the table. 35% crit for 10 seconds ever 180 sec averages out to 2% crit overall, which is a little less than you will get from 2piece with heroic thunderfoged offpieces, however the higher crit during CDs makes it really close as far as I can see.

Personally I will be going for 4piece to start with at least, as Im currently sitting at 25% crit and don't have crit buff in all my raids. I know some players in high end 25man guilds who are TG are already getting close to 35% crit unbuffed, and 2piece could probably be more beneficial for them right away.

[Deleted]

But, if Crit = Strength (approximately for Fury), then having 1500 less crit is like having 1500 less strength.

You make it sound like the haste and mastery you get instead is worth 0 dps. It's not.

Not saying one way or another is better, but when mastery's worth 0.6 str and haste's 0.45 str you can't just ignore the non-crit stats you get instead.

[Recke]

You make it sound like the haste and mastery you get instead is worth 0 dps. It's not.

Not saying one way or another is better, but when mastery's worth 0.6 str and haste's 0.45 str you can't just ignore the non-crit stats you get instead.

Yes and no.
Yes, you can't realistically ignore them because they are a dps gain.
No, I will ignore them in the sense that if you want to maximize your damage, you'll go with crit pieces. You can say that a piece is good because it has as much haste as another piece does crit, but with crit being double the value, even if you reforge, you are at a loss. 40% of the given base and 60% of half the stat value is 70% total. 70% isn't optimal. It's valid, but then you could say not reforging out of haste is valid, since it's 50% of the dps gain. The whole point of this is "what's optimal."
Another concern I have is the fact that since you aren't stacking the two gains (Skull Banner and Recklessness), you are depriving yourself of boosted damage while everything is up, or you are forcing yourself to hold off on using a cd till both things are up. If you do stack them, in BiS, you are wasting crit.

There are many influences. I'm looking at more or less in a vacuum, as bad RNG can feel like, but you can also throw around a lot of valid, other info. If you don't crit for some reason, how much value is mastery worth? Why not get all the haste pieces till you have enough to maintain Gaze of the Twins at a near 100% uptime with multiple stacks (possibly 15% bonus crit, which means a little over 30% haste is a valid investment, not to mention the other rppm trinket/meta)? There are many things, I'm was just going with "crit is the master stat, get as much as possible to maximize dps."

[Roseby]

The thing about it is that since the two camp are both undecided at this point of Tier 15 with all the tools at our disposal, we should grab 2 pc and let every other person who seeks protector get it first for their Main Spec, picking it up for ourselves before other people gear OS.

[Gromnak]

The thing about it is that since the two camp are both undecided at this point of Tier 15 with all the tools at our disposal, we should grab 2 pc and let every other person who seeks protector get it first for their Main Spec, picking it up for ourselves before other people gear OS.

This is pretty much what I'm doing.

[Deleted]

The thing about it is that since the two camp are both undecided at this point of Tier 15 with all the tools at our disposal, we should grab 2 pc and let every other person who seeks protector get it first for their Main Spec, picking it up for ourselves before other people gear OS.

This seems the most logical choice at the moment. In the end it will probably depend on the fight and how much your raid needs the burst (keep in mind that not every burst phase has execute included).

I don't see why nobody mentioned that with any crit above 50% bloodthirst won't benefit from additional crit, so you have to devalue the crit from skull banner a little more. Seeing my Gaze of the Twins already at ~50% uptime, 2p and offset seems like a good choice if you want to reduce your RNG to the minimum and stay enraged most of the fight.

[Mataru]

I don't see why nobody mentioned that with any crit above 50% bloodthirst won't benefit from additional crit, so you have to devalue the crit from skull banner a little more. Seeing my Gaze of the Twins already at ~50% uptime, 2p and offset seems like a good choice if you want to reduce your RNG to the minimum and stay enraged most of the fight.

Well anyone with close to tier 15 gear will go above 50% crit during recklessness anyway. When CD stacking its not about getting guaranteed BT crits for enrage uptime, it's about having everything crit as much as possible to gain the most from your banner and bloodbath + trinkets pots. The entire arguments basically revolves around whether having 20-30% more crit during cd stacking beats out 2.5% crit for the entirety of the fight. There are also additional stat differences, probably in favor of 2-piece, but that's the gist of it.

[Deleted]

Well anyone with close to tier 15 gear will go above 50% crit during recklessness anyway. When CD stacking its not about getting guaranteed BT crits for enrage uptime, it's about having everything crit as much as possible to gain the most from your banner and bloodbath + trinkets pots. The entire arguments basically revolves around whether having 20-30% more crit during cd stacking beats out 2.5% crit for the entirety of the fight. There are also additional stat differences, probably in favor of 2-piece, but that's the gist of it.

Yeah I know the reason for the argument, that's why I said it depends on the encounter and I think gearing up for both (if possible) and switch on demand is the way to go. Just wanted to point out that for non-execute phases 2 gcds for bt won't benefit from the 4piece.