[Balance] T15H BiS List

[Deleted]

That isnt the point, all of the pre Ra-den loots drop before lei shen, so it doesnt matter about being able to kill lei shen. Whilst i dont think its needed i have been making one also and i am curious of a few pieces, if you could help me slippy that would be awesome thanks.

Ring1 - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96486#see-also Durumu / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96754 Jin'rok
i think jin'rok will be more dps at this moment in time, and i also question the use of 80 int 160 crit in the durumu socket and not just a pure crit.

Then there is:
Gloves - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96589 Tier / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96520 Dark Animus
Chest - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96810 Tortos / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96592#see-also Tier Still need to run the numbers.
Which way round is stronger?

I will try and run a simcraft, but i am abit noob on it.
Any help will be much appreciated, thanks.

[Juvencus]

Ra-den has his own loot as well as dropping TF HC from other bosses.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=95039 Is an example of gear that exists only as TF HC

[Slippykins]

That isnt the point, all of the pre Ra-den loots drop before lei shen, so it doesnt matter about being able to kill lei shen. Whilst i dont think its needed i have been making one also and i am curious of a few pieces, if you could help me slippy that would be awesome thanks.

Ring1 - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96486#see-also Durumu / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96754 Jin'rok
i think jin'rok will be more dps at this moment in time, and i also question the use of 80 int 160 crit in the durumu socket and not just a pure crit.

Then there is:
Gloves - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96589 Tier / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96520 Dark Animus
Chest - http://www.wowhead.com/item=96810 Tortos / http://www.wowhead.com/item=96592#see-also Tier Still need to run the numbers.
Which way round is stronger?

I will try and run a simcraft, but i am abit noob on it.
Any help will be much appreciated, thanks.

Tecton referenced Lei-Shen because Blizzard has said Ra-den is actually an easier fight than Lei-Shen, and the only difficulty of the encounter is the limited attempts. Looking at it from this perspective, if we are to include Lei-Shen loot, we might as well include Ra-den loot as well since it's not much more of a stretch for attainability.

For your ring comparison - it's almost always beneficial to gem socket-appropriate. The additional stats you get from socket bonuses is essentially free, and an int/crit gem is only slightly lower than a pure crit gem. It stands to reason that 80 int + 160 crit + 60 spirit (ie. haste) > 320 crit. 1 int is almost equal to 2 crit, so there's really no reason to not gem for it. Bigger crits!

From what I've tested in the BiS list, Ro'shak's was the best second slot ring (Ra-den's rings being the only Thunderforged options), even above Durumu and Jin'rohk's. I believe I did a comparison of Ro'shak's and Jin'rohk's in the normal BiS list that should be apparent in this discussion as well.

For gear choices in heroic, it'll be a week or two until we really see the heroic Thunderforged pieces floating into the databases online, so I can't exactly comment on what changes need to be made for this list. I can say that not much will change though, maybe a few pieces here and there. Tier and the off-piece choice has a good chance to change.

Edit: post on normal Thunderforged ring comparison - http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20461358

[Deleted]

Yeah i already use Ro'shak's ring in my list. I was wandering if jin'rok's outweighs Durumu's
Essentially until my guild get to lei shen hc, then i wont loot bis with ra-den, simply because so many items come from there and i want to kill the boss rather than wait to loot from the boss, so i want to be in the best gear prior to it.

[Stommped]

That isnt the point, all of the pre Ra-den loots drop before lei shen,

This isn't true. The weapon we use in the BIS list drops off Lei Shen so you will need to replace that as well.

[Slippykins]

Yeah i already use Ro'shak's ring in my list. I was wandering if jin'rok's outweighs Durumu's
Essentially until my guild get to lei shen hc, then i wont loot bis with ra-den, simply because so many items come from there and i want to kill the boss rather than wait to loot from the boss, so i want to be in the best gear prior to it.

Ah, gotcha! In that case, Durumu's should be the better option, but not by much (~13 SHE). Very close options.

[Deleted]

Does the total intellect/spellpower seem a bit low?

Just browsed into Lappés armory to compare and get an idea of how much you'd get from all this and noticed that he got 30k SP with his gear atm and over 20k intellect. Even if you discount LW/enchanting bonuses he got more intellect.

[Deleted]

Updated Wrathcalcs with several new Heroic TF items. Let me know if you guys know of any that aren't on the list.

Regarding Lappé's profile, he's using the VP trinket which has a large chunk of passive Intellect on it. The BiS profile also uses Tailoring, which loses further passive Intellect in favour of the cloak enchant proc compared to his enchanting, and Engineering rather than Leatherworking. Adding in more Heroic TF gear will change things too.

[Slippykins]

Thanks Tec!

So, since I figured there's no real reason to upgrade slots with only half (or less) of the H TF options available because I would probably just end up changing it again once they are, I only fiddled around with two slots: cape and bracers. Bracers were just a linear upgrade from their heroic counterpart, but the cape changed from Black Night Thundercloak to Deadly Glare Cape. Funny enough, that's what I said was best in the normal thread, where all Thunderforged options are available for comparison.

Anyway, two solid upgrades. We'll get some more changes in the coming weeks!

[lappee]

Does the total intellect/spellpower seem a bit low?

Just browsed into Lappés armory to compare and get an idea of how much you'd get from all this and noticed that he got 30k SP with his gear atm and over 20k intellect. Even if you discount LW/enchanting bonuses he got more intellect.

stop stalking me, im shy

[Drayarr]

Does the total intellect/spellpower seem a bit low?

Just browsed into Lappés armory to compare and get an idea of how much you'd get from all this and noticed that he got 30k SP with his gear atm and over 20k intellect. Even if you discount LW/enchanting bonuses he got more intellect.

Noticed this myself, missing alot of int / spellpower.
Not sure if its just my end or if its a general problem / issue

[Slippykins]

Let's see what we can surmise from changing a few things in WrathCalcs, and accounting for what is shown on the armory but is not displayed on the Gear tab. I'm using the T15N BiS list for comparison, as it's pretty close to Lappé's ilvl (522 vs. 526).

Stats prior to change:

Int: 16340
SP: 25769

Changes:

1. Professions changed from Tailoring/Engineering to Leatherworking/Enchanting. Int increases from 16340 to 17160 (a 820 increase, from +320 bracers, +320 rings and +180 cloak).

2. Trinket changed from Cha-Ye's to Volatile Shado-Pan Assault. Int increases from 17160 to 18627 (a 1467 increase, namely from the static int on the SPA trinket).


Now that our basic changes are in, we can see this number is steadily approaching Lappé's golden "over 20k intellect." We must take note of the differences between the int calculation on the Gear tab in WrathCalcs, and what the armory includes.

Discrepancies:

- HotW int is included in the armory, whereas it is not included on the Gear tab.
- Astral Leather int is the same deal.

This boosts 18627 to 19744 (HotW) and then to 20731 int (AL). Similarly, if we import Lappé into WrathCalcs and do the same multiplication, we arrive at 20466, just shy of his 20481 int.

Therefore, there is nothing wrong with the int values on the Gear tab, it is simply "raw" int before multipliers are considered.

And sorry for dragging you yet again into the limelight Lappé, but I felt the need for clarification.

[Deleted]

stop stalking me, im shy

haha, wanted someone as highly geared as possible to make it easy for me - your name is the only one i know of the bat.

Slippykins, great answer, did not know that those two werent included.

[Drayarr]

Let's see what we can surmise from changing a few things in WrathCalcs, and accounting for what is shown on the armory but is not displayed on the Gear tab. I'm using the T15N BiS list for comparison, as it's pretty close to Lappé's ilvl (522 vs. 526).

Stats prior to change:

Int: 16340
SP: 25769

Changes:

1. Professions changed from Tailoring/Engineering to Leatherworking/Enchanting. Int increases from 16340 to 17160 (a 820 increase, from +320 bracers, +320 rings and +180 cloak).

2. Trinket changed from Cha-Ye's to Volatile Shado-Pan Assault. Int increases from 17160 to 18627 (a 1467 increase, namely from the static int on the SPA trinket).


Now that our basic changes are in, we can see this number is steadily approaching Lappé's golden "over 20k intellect." We must take note of the differences between the int calculation on the Gear tab in WrathCalcs, and what the armory includes.

Discrepancies:

- HotW int is included in the armory, whereas it is not included on the Gear tab.
- Astral Leather int is the same deal.

This boosts 18627 to 19744 (HotW) and then to 20731 int (AL). Similarly, if we import Lappé into WrathCalcs and do the same multiplication, we arrive at 20466, just shy of his 20481 int.

Therefore, there is nothing wrong with the int values on the Gear tab, it is simply "raw" int before multipliers are considered.

And sorry for dragging you yet again into the limelight Lappé, but I felt the need for clarification.

Therefore this accounts for the 2k discrepancy in the intellect value on Wrathcalc for my character?
Some other values seem to be a point or 3 out sometimes when I have changed gear/reforges then re-imported to wrathcalcs, saying I am 1 hit under-cap when in-game I am at 5100.

[Juvencus]

Therefore this accounts for the 2k discrepancy in the intellect value on Wrathcalc for my character?
Some other values seem to be a point or 3 out sometimes when I have changed gear/reforges then re-imported to wrathcalcs, saying I am 1 hit under-cap when in-game I am at 5100.

It's because the game doesn't have the same upgrade formulas (or something) for upgrades so WC uses a proximate one. You can add/subtract from the middle line, with the 0's where your stats are on the top.

[Drayarr]

It's because the game doesn't have the same upgrade formulas (or something) for upgrades so WC uses a proximate one. You can add/subtract from the middle line, with the 0's where your stats are on the top.

Yeah, I've been doing that, just wanted some clarification is all.

[Slippykins]

Therefore this accounts for the 2k discrepancy in the intellect value on Wrathcalc for my character?
Some other values seem to be a point or 3 out sometimes when I have changed gear/reforges then re-imported to wrathcalcs, saying I am 1 hit under-cap when in-game I am at 5100.

Yeah, you should have 11.3% more intellect (1.06*1.05) than displayed in the Gear tab. For values nearing 20k, this would total around 2k.

[Drayarr]

Yeah, you should have 11.3% more intellect (1.06*1.05) than displayed in the Gear tab. For values nearing 20k, this would total around 2k.

2k was just a rounded number for the sake of discussion, on further evaluation its more like 1500-1600 for my gear as it stands.

[Slippykins]

Made a rather large post on a thread debating NV vs. HotW. It's lengthy, so read with coffee.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post20567717

[markos82]

Probably not a right place to ask but since ppl are talking about gear well then i'll ask here..

Yesterday i got Breath of the Hydra ( normal not thunderforged ) and today I was testing it in some dungeon and only got 4 procs and ended up with <20% uptime. I know its based on dots and thats why i used Scholomance to test it so i can dot every single mob but still got only 4 procs while my Volatile talisman had 12+ procs and ended up with 45% . So am i doung something wrong or that trinket has insane ICD or its broken atm..