spriest need a nerf?everyteam have a spriest.

[stickyjam]

Seriously you're probably delusional, becouse buble is a self-saving cd comparable to dispersion or shieldwall (and against some team compositions it's worse of then those too) whille lifeswap is a BEST teammate saver ingame aviable to spec with fuckton of cc/utility. Only thing better then lifeswap is LoH and it isn't usable in arena.

Also every caster class ingame can be trained by melee, even mages and often to great success so no need to sound like it's a weakness exlusive to SP. Hell i trained warlocks through most of BC and been trained on warlock through WolTK by dks, wars, rogues, enchs and their bros, moms and pops so stop crying a river how you've to play under preassure since with amount of instant cc aviable now it's not even remotely close to previous expansions.

Also stop sprewing bullshit like "give them time to shine", SP were glad/r1 viable through most of arena history be it shadowplay or rogue/sp or shatterplay or 5v5 dotcleaves or rogue/sham/sp and so on. And "They are only strong when they have partners with strong CC" argument is also invalid becouse dk/sp/healer is exeptionally strong atm, besides most classes have strong cc so it's not like SPs have problems in finding a proper setup to play in unlike monks, enchs, rets, elems and even locks.

No need to insults with "butthurts" or whatever when you're clueless enough to think that SPs being favoured over almost all other casters is a natual occurence and should be kept this way.[/QUOTE]

Shadow cleave works because unholy is silly atm. Period.

---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 10:59 AM ----------

I'd also happily swap life swap for a mobility spell.... Ppl also act like life swap disperse is a problem when 90% of games the shadow swaps a partner. As they've green tunneled

[Deleted]

Hyperbole, nice job but please for the love of god use your brain, this important comment specifically "relative to other classes and more specifically, other casters".
The stuff you stated is common knowledge and every class/caster has problems with this one way or another...also did I forget to mention "RELATIVE TO OTHER CLASSES"?

CCs: Priests has no ccbreak apart from say fearward and deathing CCs, but they require skill, and if you land them you'd be considered outplaying your opponent. Mages, DKs can break stuns, Warriors DKs can break fear, Ret, Warr can break roots. Warlock, monks got extra trinkets.

dispels: The major damage a priest provide, aswell as giving proccs/mana comes from dots. That makes the dots extremely important, and healers use the strategy to remove them asap because they know it. Not all casters, and certainly not all classes, are weak against this, or at least as weak as priest.

interrupts: You might have a point in this. I was thinking about not being able to use dispersion, but thats the same for others. You can heal if you're locked in shadow but thats it, 3 diffrent spells and lifegrip. Moonkin has two schools for damage, shaman has two aswell. Mages and locks also have two diffrent schools of magic for damage but i dont know if they are able to use it, at least in an effective way.

LoS: Shadow has big problems with this because we can't prevent it. A mage can blink and "catch up" to it. Priests not having a real slow makes it so that you can't really stop someone from running to there and stopping all your damage. And you can argue all you want that psyfiend is gonna fix the deal, but that this is so unreliable and they can just corner that thing aswell, and the priest has to sit and wait or run with your normal 100% speed to catch up. Of course, this is almost equally bad for some aswell, so you might have a point here, but there are certainly classes that have it better.

mobility: Out of all casters, priest must be one of the shittiest in this apartment. It's so easy to train a priest because they cant really stop you from doing it. They have no teleports/blinks or the ability to cast while on the move apart from a few spells being instant, but other classes have those aswell. Insanity has you standing still open channeling for roughly 6 seconds for it to do some damage. I think this is why priests are a bit more tanky than other casters, with shadowform giving damage reduction.

kiting: Relates to the mobilitybit. No ranged slow, no gap openers. You can't kite, at least not like other casters. The only caster that would be equally shit at this would be balance. All others can do it.

any melee-tunnel: Well yes, this is a problem all casters might have, and this is somewhat related to kite, mobility and interruptprotection i guess, but if you add the categories together, priest is bad in all so that makes it an easy tunneltarget, where as a mage can freeze them and iceblock and blink away and all that crap. If you were to choose who to tunnel, just based on which one you thought was easiest, wouldn't you pick a priest or moonkin?

Now i know priests are stronger in other departments, but you asked for weaknesses, and i gave you them. Now you asked for relativeness to other classes, and i explained and gave you them.

But obviously you are just some kid who can't confront the fact that you're MAYBE the strongest caster and significantly ahead of other casters with the possible exception of Frost Mages and that balance is a scary concept to you.

Yes, i believe i'm strong, about equal with a mage, but not OP. Mainly why i don't want to see nerfs is because there has already been tons, i can write you the list. Secondly is i don't want to be total garbage in everything else just because people cry in 3v3. Since they've already been nerfed, and people cry, it's going to be happening that they get nerfed too much, just wait and see, it will happen.


I forgot to mention, Void Shift might be a bit OP in the hands of a shadow to couple it with Dispersion, however counterable, but i think it's way more OP coupled with a mage doing Alter Time. That combo should really be taken away at least.

[Deleted]

Void Shift is a very good utility spell and I was quite happy with my priest before it was introduced, but I can guarantee there would be cries of "too much Spriest utility" if we had gotten any of the other lvl 87 utility spells introduced. Alter Time, a sort of personal Void Shift where I get to keep my procs and can have two three orb DPs in rapid succession for the price of one- yes, please. Demonic Gateway, taking away the issue of mobility for Spriests largely and if those pesky melee catch up with me I'll just drop my tendrils- I'll not say no. Symbiosis- having my partners Ice Block or he could use his rogue to give me CoS or Evasion- again, I'll not say no. Blinding Light might perhaps be the least offensive but it would yet another AoE CC and I'm certain would have it complaints. Or we can go down the Ascendance/Banners route of a CD which boosts healing for Disc/Holy and DPS for Shadow but considering Spriests are one of many specs who already suffer from too much burst and healers are already approaching a godly state then I'm not convinced that is a solution either. Give Spriests a penalty on casting a 6min CD? Yeah, ok, after you tell BM hunters that they alone have a penalty on their Stampede and Frost Mages have a penalty on Alter Time (too many damn FoF procs anyway without it).So maybe the solution would be give every class/spec new toys every xpac to play with every xpac except Spriests because we can't give them any more damage or utility or healing.

[Ethidia]

All the people saying they need to nerf fear, and it´s a broken spell. Look at a lock, they can chain fear your team all day, why not nerf them?
Spriest have a cooldown on 30 sec, that is ages when a melee is sitting on top of you.

[Deleted]

Even after all the nerfs the spriest off healing is strongest out of all hybrids, they outheal even retri paladins. I would descrease their healing by 10%. Also Mass dispel even though has cd and costs a lot of mana, it can be replenished easily considering you vampric touch every one all game. I would put on it 1min cd for shadow only, keep cd for disco, and even lower mana cost for disco. Also I would make the Insanity to make progressively more damage like increase mindflay damage by 0% at the beginning and 200% at last tick so its more easily countered, also if you fail to cast ( eg getting interrupted at first tick for 4sec) the last tick wouldnt be 200% but just 33%).

[Ethidia]

Even after all the nerfs the spriest off healing is strongest out of all hybrids, they outheal even retri paladins. I would descrease their healing by 10%. Also Mass dispel even though has cd and costs a lot of mana, it can be replenished easily considering you vampric touch every one all game. I would put on it 1min cd for shadow only, keep cd for disco, and even lower mana cost for disco. Also I would make the Insanity to make progressively more damage like increase mindflay damage by 0% at the beginning and 200% at last tick so its more easily countered, also if you fail to cast ( eg getting interrupted at first tick for 4sec) the last tick wouldnt be 200% but just 33%).

Are you playing 1200 rating??? Even after 1600 rating people know to instant dispell DP or CC spriest during the duration, not hard...

We don´t have a ranged slow, so we tank melee classes, with nerf to our healing we NEED to have a class to babysit us. At anytime I would trade a 5-10% dmg for a range slow.

VT is dispelled 24/7, and if you have a melee tunnel you it can be hard to get them VT´s rolling on the other team, and if you cast more than 2 MD´s you will be oom instant. Then look at a mage who never can go oom, unless they are spamming spell steal 24/7.

[Flaks]

Ahahaha, no. Elemental isn't that well represented because any decent team will simply tunnel it into oblivion and it will die without doing any meaningful damage. Elemental relies on hard casting and cool downs a great deal yet it lacks the ability to actually hard cast and properly use it's cool downs.

If those flaws were really as heavy as you make them out to be, at least one of these two specs wouldn't be finding themslves contending for rank 1 spots on some battlegroups every other season including the last one.

[apepi]

How about instead of nerfing them how about buffing other classes?

[Deleted]

Are you playing 1200 rating??? Even after 1600 rating people know to instant dispell DP or CC spriest during the duration, not hard...

DP can be dispelled by 3 classes? I am supposed to have ranged interrupt or stun for every time they cast insanity? You probably get one good insanity every game but it decides the game, and with all the support spriest brings, you eventually get in these situation so no I am not playing at 1200 probably you are. The numbers can be of course change like 50-150% during DP. They wanted to decrease spriest burst, all insanity did is to increase it a make it more random, great.

[Deleted]

DP can be dispelled by 3 classes? I am supposed to have ranged interrupt or stun for every time they cast insanity? You probably get one good insanity every game but it decides the game, and with all the support spriest brings, you eventually get in these situation so no I am not playing at 1200 probably you are. The numbers can be of course change like 50-150% during DP. They wanted to decrease spriest burst, all insanity did is to increase it a make it more random, great.

You are not going to get an argument from me that the new orb mechanic and devouring plague are rubbish. The only problem which I really had with Cataclysm's orbs was the random time which it took to get your first one which would have solved by giving us one straight off the bat like lock's embers. I enjoyed the evangelism mechanic where I had a choice between higher dot damage or more potent burst. But if people are seriously thinking any nerf to Shadow is going to "restore" balance to PvP then you are dreaming; the problems are the overall piss poor class design of MoP and stupid gear itemization . By all means, spread Shadow's DP and Insanity damage but that isn't going to change a great deal. When Blizzard's approach to class design is thinking it would be a good idea giving people tools which they lack rather than having a vision of what that class/spec should be about and giving them the tools to do that job I find it really hard to care about the PvP full stop.

[Deleted]

I havent seen much shadow priests around lately, i see more disc than shadow tbh

[Deleted]

DP can be dispelled by 3 classes? I am supposed to have ranged interrupt or stun for every time they cast insanity? You probably get one good insanity every game but it decides the game, and with all the support spriest brings, you eventually get in these situation so no I am not playing at 1200 probably you are. The numbers can be of course change like 50-150% during DP. They wanted to decrease spriest burst, all insanity did is to increase it a make it more random, great.

Don't expect insanity to change, spriests are terrible at single target in pve which means it wont get nerfed.

[Deleted]

Don't expect insanity to change, spriests are terrible at single target in pve which means it wont get nerfed.

I have not meant it as nerf, just make bonus damge during mind flays so it isnt so big on the beggining, but increases over 6 sec as you cast mind flays.

[Deleted]

If those flaws were really as heavy as you make them out to be, at least one of these two specs wouldn't be finding themslves contending for rank 1 spots on some battlegroups every other season including the last one.

Just because there are SOME people who are way above average who manage to play it anyway doesn't mean a class is viable in general. By that logic every single last class and specc would be viable because you're sure to find someone who played them since the beginning who will be able to play them even now. There were also a handfull of rogues in 5.0-5.1 still above 2,2. By your logic that means rogues were fine and didn't need any buffs.

Also many of the data websites are extremly unreliable and armory only shows in what specc you logged out in. I log out in elemental specc for example thus boosting elemental representation above 2,2k yet I am not actually playing elemental in Arenas/RBG's.

[Deleted]

I don't know if SPs are OP or not, nor do I ask for anything, be it buff or nerf, but from my 1on1 experience as a BM hunter: SPs are the most difficult class to beat, and it's not due to their CC. It's a good combination of durability and damage.

[Arcsecant]

Spriests allow the healer on their team to play poorly without being punished. So when you have a skilled healer who knows how to play they shine even more because the enemy team will have to do something extraordinary to land a kill. Spriests are balanced for 95% of all PVPers. It's only in the top of the top where they are OP.

I think they are pretty balanced but if you had to nerf them then the 3 abilities that need looking at are phsyfiend, void shift, and MD CC off healer. The most potent of which is MD CC off healer. If you aren't a melee team or a team with a lot of interrupts you will never be able to stop the VT's which will just let the spriest endlessly dispel CC off his healer. It's frustrating having to CC two people for just wanting to CC one person.

[Alanar]

I don't think it's a good idea to buff all other casters to the same level shadow is on currently. It's better to tone shadow down a bit and buff the other classes a bit, trying to seek a balance between buffing and nerfing.
For PvP, it's easier to nerf than to buff without affecting PvE.

U see we have a problem here.. Every single time people complain about shadow they complain about the whole class or just saying they got to much fear or yea to much healing.. see where is the real constructive stuff..?

I play Shadow myself and with the recent healing nerfs i just laugh and ele's atm doing 81 k critts in a duel for example. Our heals got reduced by 20% on renew/mending/flash.. It's no QQing but i feel like people just make up things.

What i would suggest.. wow there is alot but i will just pick a few.

Lifeswap- I have been thinking about making it not useable in arena, but then pally bubble has to go aswell..
Mass dispel- Amazing abillity but no need to nerf it. Maybe increase it's cd for shadow, but still i dont see the problem here.

I think u guys forget we got hit hard in 5.2 Shadow is more in line with others tbh.

If u wanna kill a Shadow priest L2 stay close them, keep ur cc ready and just interrupt VT to stop their mana gain.

Shadow struggle against melee and have no mobility ( they have if u count the RNG procs maybe lol)

I think people should move on and look at the big problem which is cc in general. Like some one els already said it's not just 1 class realy.

ps

Been thinking about many stuff so just letting it out.

Mindflay- Cast while moving, but lose the slow. Passive( maybe a talent/glyph) Everytime u do damage with Mindflay the cast time on your next VT is reduced by 20%?
Mass dispel- Reduce it's range same as with solar so priest should now be careful when using this to not miss it.

The whole (mobility?)tier with Phantasme should have more options for pvpers.

AF- no longer has 3 stacks no has 2 stacks and work like a placement freedom for 4 sec down from 6.
Remove the bubble+speed talent ( forgot the name lol)and give it baseline to just disc/holy? or all specs
New talent Silence immunity talent or make this a passive talent to make Mindflay able to cast while moving?

I know these are just ideas and will never be reality but i just hate how pathetic this tier is in terms of mobility, but that's just IMO.

[Bakis]

Shadow struggle against melee and have no mobility ( they have if u count the RNG procs maybe lol)

Apart from frost mages, which caster doesn't?
Playing melee as well as caster in PvP myself and I can tell you that SP got no worse mobility than warlocks and got far better than ele shamans.

Personally I think SP's are a bit too strong but in the utility area. I want some nerf preferably Void Shift and DR on dispel protection, I dont want them gutted.
I wish BLZ did baby step nerfs so they dont ruin SP PvP sadly babystep nerfs only happen to mages as we all know

[Yaraza]

Apart from frost mages, which caster doesn't?
Playing melee as well as caster in PvP myself and I can tell you that SP got no worse mobility than warlocks and got far better than ele shamans.

Personally I think SP's are a bit too strong but in the utility area. I want some nerf preferably Void Shift and DR on dispel protection, I dont want them gutted.
I wish BLZ did baby step nerfs so they dont ruin SP PvP sadly babystep nerfs only happen to mages as we all know

Let's see. Warlocks have Demonic circle (which is awesome with soulburn) and demonic gateway baseline. Shamans have ghost wolf and spirit walker's grace (let's you move while casting) baseline. Spriests must use a talent point for either body and soul, angelic feather or phantasm (it has no speed boost). I suppose you could count dispersion... IDK. Also warlocks and Shamans have the option to slow their opponent and they don't have to sit in one place to do it.

Just putting the facts out there. "Grass is always greener"... yep.
.

[Alanar]

Apart from frost mages, which caster doesn't?
Playing melee as well as caster in PvP myself and I can tell you that SP got no worse mobility than warlocks and got far better than ele shamans.

Personally I think SP's are a bit too strong but in the utility area. I want some nerf preferably Void Shift and DR on dispel protection, I dont want them gutted.
I wish BLZ did baby step nerfs so they dont ruin SP PvP sadly babystep nerfs only happen to mages as we all know

I dont think u get it.. Eles lightning on the move ALWAYS, spiritwalker grace.. warlock got kil'jeaden cunning ALWAYS and ofc the portals..
Spriest have none, and cant do much while kiting.

Utility is something different and if u read my previous post u will notice i took that in aswell. It doesn't seem u are playing 1 atm. Even without the mobility they are strong. So my best bet would be to nerf some utility in pvp and buff mobility.

It's clear now that people have no idea what Spriest is all about.